The Lesser of Two Evils...I'd Like a Third Option

Hmmm.....

Moral Relativism be Damned! (Give me a Third Option!!)	51.9%	[ 70 ]
But the Don has suffered so much! (Dark Elf)	21.5%	[ 29 ]
Vampires are so HOT (even if they're just room temperature ;))	26.7%	[ 36 ]
Total Votes:			[ 135 ]

[WideEyed]

Marluxiana

I think the major point of the event is that both sides are in the grey area, and only in the end will we know who is right--if anyone.

Agreed, but I admit that I find myself yearning a bit for the good old days when there was little or no ambiguity with regards to who was right and who was wrong.
This Event is a bit "messy" from a "Good/Evil" standpoint, and I'm not really sure that when it's all over, there will be a right side.
Regardless of the outcome, I'm not seeing a happy ending to this one.

[Tanukigao]

WideEyed

Ty Taralom

I can see your want for a side that isn't so gray in terms of morality. Neither side is really good for us. The vampires leave a bad taste in the mouth, and Don Kuro has gone full on NUTS.

I'm siding with the Kuro Gang because they're more interesting, story-wise. The vampires have had a decent amount of light shed on them, but we're still mostly in the dark when it comes to the Kuro Gang. (That will obviously change with this event.) I haven't been around lately, so my knowledge of the whole situation is a little lacking in nuance (There's only so much to be gleaned from just the manga)

Though, I'm willing to bet the whole meeting-with-Gaia deal seriously changes things 3nodding

I agree about there being only so much to be gleaned from the Manga.
Have you seen THIS TOPIC ?
It's a pretty handy synopsis, although there's still a lot of sub-text that has yet to be revealed I think.

No! No I have not. :3 I had no idea that subforum even existed. Thanks! biggrin

[daydreamer_girl]

To be completely honest, I only chose the dark elf side, because I think elves are a lot cooler than vampires. As for a lack of a "good guy"...I think it's kind of cool. That's in the sense that it's easy for people to pick one side or the other if we know the sides are polar opposites. The messiness of the two sides, where we have no clear reading on them (which side 'could' be good?) kind of allows us to explore our own sort of follies, that we can make messy choices and not be guaranteed that we have picked the right side, even if we lose.

I really like the idea of this event for that reason.

[WideEyed]

daydreamer_girl

To be completely honest, I only chose the dark elf side, because I think elves are a lot cooler than vampires. As for a lack of a "good guy"...I think it's kind of cool. That's in the sense that it's easy for people to pick one side or the other if we know the sides are polar opposites. The messiness of the two sides, where we have no clear reading on them (which side 'could' be good?) kind of allows us to explore our own sort of follies, that we can make messy choices and not be guaranteed that we have picked the right side, even if we lose.

I really like the idea of this event for that reason.

Well, I must admit that I've never given as much thought to choosing sides in an Event before, so regardless of how things shake out, I guess I'd have to say that the Event is off to a pretty engaging start.
To be honest though, I'm not seeing much of a parallel with my real life decision making process, which I guess is probably not a bad thing when you think about it....
Choosing between chicken or fish and action movie vs chick flick is about as serious as most of my rl decisions get. wink

[allmostanyone]

WideEyed

allmostanyone

I'm not going to worry myself with who's good or bad "know that worrying is about as affective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum." Everything we think we know can change at the drop of a hat, or in this case a page, rendering it pointless. Though I sided with the vampires for more or less blah reasons, people seem to consider them "more good" than bad because of Louie, I realized they could probably turn on him once they get whatever it is they are after.

That's kind of the thing at the moment...
Right now, I see it as basically two criminal organisations battling it out for turf.
Up until now, the vampires have been quite happy to support/work for Don Kuro and cash the cheques, with no qualms about what the payment was for.
The way I see it, they're only turning on him now because he's upped the ante and plans to set himself up as some sort of Supreme Ruler, and they're looking to protect their interests, not save the rest of Gaia from a tyrant.

I agree that the whole thing could, and probably will change with the turn of a manga page, and a lot of what we think we know at the moment will be proven false.

I also agree that, should the vampires win the day, there's little or no guarantee that they'll follow Louie once their interests have been protected.
I get the sense that Zhivago is going to be a bit of a wild card as things play out....

True.
When you put it like that though " basically two criminal organisations battling it out for turf." it puts it in a different perspective for me.
Like at the beginning people were trying to figure which were the "good guys" or which were more just in their cause, but what if nether are? "two criminal organisations" if that's true than lets consider that it's Halloween, a time of mischief (opposite of Christmas) so, there are no good guys xD It's more or less telling us, be bad! join a gang and cause havoc and fight. The real question is, which side is more bad, is that the side you want to be on? We know that the "winning" side will get a special item, to get the item one criminal organizations beats the other, the way to do that is pretty much to fight and be criminal. I mean, we're probably not going to be given the option of signing a peace treaty or something XD So yeah, lets be bad emotion_dowant

[WideEyed]

allmostanyone

True.
When you put it like that though " basically two criminal organisations battling it out for turf." it puts it in a different perspective for me.
Like at the beginning people were trying to figure which were the "good guys" or which were more just in their cause, but what if nether are? "two criminal organisations" if that's true than lets consider that it's Halloween, a time of mischief (opposite of Christmas) so, there are no good guys xD It's more or less telling us, be bad! join a gang and cause havoc and fight. The real question is, which side is more bad, is that the side you want to be on? We know that the "winning" side will get a special item, to get the item one criminal organizations beats the other, the way to do that is pretty much to fight and be criminal. I mean, we're probably not going to be given the option of signing a peace treaty or something XD So yeah, lets be bad emotion_dowant

Thinks "Gang War"....
Starts humming..."When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way. From your first cigarette to your last dieing day......"

Thinks, "Well, if the gang members sing and dance while they fight, it might not be all bad...." wink

[allmostanyone]

WideEyed

allmostanyone

True.
When you put it like that though " basically two criminal organisations battling it out for turf." it puts it in a different perspective for me.
Like at the beginning people were trying to figure which were the "good guys" or which were more just in their cause, but what if nether are? "two criminal organisations" if that's true than lets consider that it's Halloween, a time of mischief (opposite of Christmas) so, there are no good guys xD It's more or less telling us, be bad! join a gang and cause havoc and fight. The real question is, which side is more bad, is that the side you want to be on? We know that the "winning" side will get a special item, to get the item one criminal organizations beats the other, the way to do that is pretty much to fight and be criminal. I mean, we're probably not going to be given the option of signing a peace treaty or something XD So yeah, lets be bad emotion_dowant

Thinks "Gang War"....
Starts humming..."When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way. From your first cigarette to your last dieing day......"

Thinks, "Well, if the gang members sing and dance while they fight, it might not be all bad...." wink

Ahaha XD Don't know what Gang Wars is >< I do know what the other reference is though! I doubt this plot would make a good musical XD but it would be amusing to try c<

[reokoe]

I actually like that it's hard to choose between two sides that have both obviously been the bad guys.
It makes it a heavier decision, and from what I can see it's actually made people think about who they're choosing, beyond the basic "who'll get better items" etc.

A third option that was a righteous decision would make things too easy, and leave the playing field imbalanced, in my opinion.

[LiXKuja]

Vampires are lesser evil here, this event won't end well. There also so many pros and cons on who wins and loses. Just have to wait till the event end if all hell break out.

[WideEyed]

reokoe

I actually like that it's hard to choose between two sides that have both obviously been the bad guys.
It makes it a heavier decision, and from what I can see it's actually made people think about who they're choosing, beyond the basic "who'll get better items" etc.

A third option that was a righteous decision would make things too easy, and leave the playing field imbalanced, in my opinion.

I certainly can't argue with your first point as I myself have been putting way more thought into this choice than on any previous Event, and I'll freely admit that some of my past choices have been "Item based", so in that respect at least, I'm on board with the current set-up.

I'm still not crazy about aligning myself with either side though as I can see some pretty serious down-side to either side being the clear victor.

I'm still not even close to sure how things will play out before the Event begins, and I'm hoping that as more information is made available with the daily Manga updates, my eventual decision will be easier.
And right.

[VKiera]

*cracks her knuckles* First off, yay thank you engaging topic, I actually read all of the posts before making my own. It's nice to have something to sink my teeth into. (punn sorta intended)

First off, I really really like how grey this event is, with no side clearly having the moral high ground, we've had the standard 'clearly good' vs 'clearly evil' several times already, I personally find it refreshing to have an event where it's hard to decide for most people.

And you know, war is ugly, it's not suppose to be easy, if it was easy we'd kill each other even more than we already do.

And as for our two sides being a choice of 'the lesser of two evils' that's not actually true.

Because frankly there is no such thing as good or evil, not really, very very rarely is anyone ever truly evil or good.

There are only people with desires and people willing to go to great lengths for those desires. The very person who you see as evil and a villain is likely to think the same of you, to them you are the bad guy, no matter what justifications you have, to them you are the bad guy.

The dark elves have felt oppressed and had a hard time of things, they lost something important to them and perhaps they see the rest of Gaia as having abandoned them to their curse.

The vampires of course have their own agenda, have been in their own way at one time oppressed by the elves and used as servants, had been currently working for the dark elves, but are being apparently mistreated by them, ie getting killed for when they fail at near impossible tasks. Their motives are no more or less selfish and they're just looking out for their own interests.

To also add, they're not evil for eating people, as someone said earlier they're just higher up the food chain, I mean is a wolf evil for eating a deer?

Though this is Gaia, I'm pretty sure whatever 'force' the Don has been conjuring up will be the main thing we end up fighting, in one form or another.

A third option, that was clearly 'good' just wouldn't make much sense to me, frankly. I read how someone said it because they wanted to take the moral high ground without having to fight with themselves about it. Since when is taking the moral high ground easy? It's usually isn't.

This is more about making a choice and sticking with it and having to live with it, personally speaking I chose to side with the vampires. From what I can tell they pretty much want out from under the Don's thumb and don't like his ideas of ruling. They haven't hinted (as of now) of wanting to rule or suggesting that they'd make better leaders of have better ideas. We'll just have to wait and see.

[rimedragona]

Nah, I don't need a third option. I choose the side that DOESN'T want to destroy the world/rule tyrannically. I like living, and I like living comfortably. *nod* If they end up wanting to dominate/destroy later on, well, we'll cross that bridge when it comes to it.

[Mera Hei]

I've always liked the third option being "sit back and watch the other guys kick the crap out of each other". I wonder what the event items for that option would be like...

Unfortunately, that's a lazy option and doesn't get much done for the upcoming war, even if both sides are kind of dicks. It's this that I like about the event, really... Really shows what the people hold in higher value: The promise of change and peace, or preventing a possible genocide and dictatorship?

Maybe that's a bit too exaggerated...

[RenstarNova]

Well, we could always go with Edmund and restart the Neutral Old Man faction.

[Celeste Starfyre]

WideEyed

I've just always had an problem with the "sympathetic villain" thing, and the moral relativism that accompanies it.

Honestly when it comes to the sympathetic villain thing, you HAVE to do it right or it comes out really REALLY bad in the end. You have to make the sympathy seem believable, and in this case it is just tacked on it feels like IMO...

You cannot feel BAD for Don Kuro because well HIS MOTHER SCREWED A VAMPIRE BEHIND HER HUSBAND'S BACK AND DID NOT EVEN FEEL REGRET ABOUT IT. You cannot feel bad for having such a curse placed on his family when in reality his mother DESERVED what was coming to them because of her own selfish desires, she SCREWED her entire clan.

They did not do very well with the sympathetic bad guy with Kuro, but if you think about it vampires are far easier to sympathize for. Yes, they suck the blood of humans, BUT that is what they do, it is something they do to survive. The Kuro gang have been manipulating and using the vampires to do their bidding, literally FORCING them into a somewhat slavery like Zhivago [I am not saying Zhivago is a nice guy, but he's in a predicament that he cannot get out of because of the Kuro Gang].

Want to know a good idea for a sympathetic bad guy? That Alien/Human hybrid that tried to destroy christmas [I think that was who he is...]