A

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Kaltros

Brothern

Maybe take your own advice on learning how to feel compassion and empathy towards other people?

Selective compassion, you mean? Because importing foreign poverty will increase poverty among the citizens already here. Especially minority groups, like blacks, who are down economically already. Bringing in millions of Hispanics is a fine way to steal good jobs from blacks. Where's your compassion for American blacks struggling to find work?

Too bad they don't largely compete with American labor for the same jobs, so that's out. Sounds an awful lot like that race baiting you're always whining about, Kaltros. GASP ARE YOU BECOMING A SJW?

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Harley Jade Linnea

Brothern

The Ice Dervish

Good, we shouldn't be giving illegals anything anyway. Illegals shouldn't be able to just jump the line in front of people trying to get here honestly, what would be the point of coming here legally anyway if we just started giving people who border hopped whatever they want? Seems unreasonable.

Most illegal immigrants don't cross the border nowadays. It's the 21st century. Do you really think that crossing a gigantic desert while being chased by right-winger "border security" nutjobs sounds appealing to anyone, at all? Illegal immigrants are more so entering the country by legitimate means. Most of them "stand in line" for student, travel and work visas; and then just never go home when the visa expires. It's a piece of cake. You just don't check in with the authorities anymore -- who's to know?

Source for the bold.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Harley Jade Linnea

Mei tsuki7

The Ice Dervish

Mei tsuki7

The Ice Dervish

Good, we shouldn't be giving illegals anything anyway. Illegals shouldn't be able to just jump the line in front of people trying to get here honestly, what would be the point of coming here legally anyway if we just started giving people who border hopped whatever they want? Seems unreasonable.

What about the "illegals" who have college degrees and provide more for this country than a lot of citizens?

There are very few of them, most people hopping over don't have jack s**t to their name. Even if they do have college degrees and such then they should come over legally like normal people instead of jumping the line. I like how you put quotations around the word "illegals", because guess what? They crossed the border illegally, they're here illegally, they're illegals. That's what they are, fact.

Actually it's about 1.5 million people and they were brought over by parents without their consent. They didn't have a choice and their lives shouldn't be ripped away from them just because their parents did something illegal. It's like if we threw a child into jail because their parent committed a crime.

There's a difference between being in a country illegally and being "illegal". No human is "illegal". It's an offensive, dehumanizing term.

Also, I just love how you don't seem to care about this country at all. If you did then you'd want people who make this country better to stay.

You need to prove that having a college degree immediately means you're making the country better. I have a degree in English yet I'm not doing anything with the degree to 'make the country better'. Now if you're claiming that every one of them is a specialist in the medical field or in science and they're working on miracle cures, or they're working in architecture to improve buildings and roads and such, then you're really going to have to prove that.

So you're admitting you're not benefiting the country then. Gotcha. Why is anyone listening to what you have to say on that particular subject again, then?

They're employed to a higher percentage than Americans, provide a nominal boost to the economy, and the overwhelming majority commit less crimes than the average American citizen.

http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/12-6-immigration.pdf
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2012/06/public-study-illegal-immigrants-commit-less-crime-than-americans/

So yeah, they provide a benefit to this country. From the little I know about you so far, I'd take them over you living here.

[The Ice Dervish]

Plata Plomo y Sangre

The Ice Dervish

]

If we pass these laws where they would get drivers licenses and immediately get residency just for being here then yes they do get more.

Where in the flying ******** do they get residency? Can you stop pulling whatever nonsense bullshit you can root around your a** for and actually look at some facts?

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******** christ, it's the term everyone uses, don't be such a baby. You're an idiot if you can't see how illegal immigration harms us, are your eyes even ******** open?

No, you're just a ******** moron who cannot show how it harms "us" without making up a bunch of bullshit that is easily refuted.

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Not before you provide the links and sources to the economists who actually say that illegal immigration helps the economy. I'm merely speaking about what happens when people like this just get thrust into a society like ours that requires you to have some sort of certification or degree to make decent money. You try supporting a family of 4 or even 3 off of two minimum wage jobs. You can't, not now anyway, these people would need welfare to cut the difference. I'm talking about undocumented immigrants who are going to get residency cards because of our retarded president who will then be able to get welfare. Most of these people do not speak English, they're coming from ******** Mexico, a primarily Spanish speaking country. Trying to claim that a significant portion of them speak English would be retarded on your end, because they don't. Some do, not most.

So you make a bunch of stupid claims without backing them up, but you refuse to source them or actually learn an iota of what the ******** it is you're talking about before I provide one, huh? Sounds good. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/87xx/doc8711/12-6-immigration.pdf

Um, some people are not wanting to become certified. Many people are perfectly happy with a minimum wage job so long as it's livable and allows them to provide for their families. Don't espouse a bunch of disparaging bullshit about undocumented immigrants then turn around and act like you're actually a bleeding heart for their economic situation. Again, PROVIDE SOME ******** SOURCES for the amount of undocumented immigrants on welfare. Actually, claiming that most don't without any factual basis for that assertion is moronic. Many countries teach English as a mandatory second language in their school systems.

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Did you even read what I said? They're already ******** with the education system. Right now in Nevada there are over 500 teaching positions open in one district because recently a bunch of these south/central americans who have been border hopping recently have decided to live there. They don't have enough teachers there to support it. On top of that the education system is already poor as s**t, ELL classes cost money. Use your head, this is simple logic. A bunch of kids get flooded into a school district that does not have room for them, those kids have to learn English. Thus that district would then have to deal with mass overcrowding in its schools and pay more money to educate people who only know Spanish/Portugese.

I read your stupid rambling, yes. Now provide some proof for your stupid s**t or shut off. HOSHIT, they're hiring more teachers because there's a larger demand for teachers? How horrible. Newsflash, you dimwit; undocumented immigrants are not the largest source of population growth in the U.S, so you whining about it makes no sense. An overpopulation issue cannot be attributed to them. They make up a FRACTION of population growth in the U.S. So yes, it's simple logic you evidently are unable to grasp.

Do you follow politics? Obama is planning on passing an executive order to make the illegals in this country legal residents. Be informed before you throw a fit.

Then refute it, cussing me out is doing you no favors.

I already told you that there are no undocumented immigrants on welfare, but there will be legal residents on welfare once Obama passes his executive order. Learn to read. I'm not talking about the state of everything right now, I'm talking about what it will be. Also, your study is biting you in the a**. Refer to page 8 first bullet point, they are in fact costing the school districts a ton of money to educate them and the number of them is going up and up. Unless you think 79-118 million is a small number rolleyes Also refer to the paragraph under "health insurance". They are less likely to have health insurance and are more likely to rely on emergency services and walk in clinics that are required to help them even if they can't pay. With that said they basically make health care professionals work for free. Then why are the ELL programs being flooded with kids? My mother has been working in education for several years now and even she has noticed a difference.

Wow, you're such a kind person rolleyes You know you've lost the argument when you can't stop yourself from being mean to your opponent smile . How on earth could you not think that overpopulating a school district full of kids they can't handle is an okay thing? Teachers don't grow on trees, new school buildings don't grow on trees they take months to a year to make. I never claimed that they where overpopulating the country emotion_facepalm Overpopulating a school district that isn't ready for that many kids =/= Overpopulating the entire country.

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Harley Jade Linnea

Plata Plomo y Sangre

Harley Jade Linnea

Plata Plomo y Sangre

Harley Jade Linnea

Because they're not entitled to them. In order to get a driver's license one must be able to provide proof of who you are. This includes birth certificate, social security number, and marriage license. An illegal does not have a SS number to provide an SS card. An illegal does not pay taxes because their income is in cash and under the table, for the most part. Does there need to be some reform to make it easier for illegals to gain citizenship? Yes. The US makes it extremely difficult and some people wait decades for citizenship. However, that does not mean that illegals should be allowed to circumvent the system by giving them a driver's license, which implies they're citizens of the US.




No, see above.

Incorrect.

You really missed the important part of the bold didn't you? Paid in cash, under the table, means NO income taxes, which is what I was referring to. Of course they pay local and state sales taxes when they buy things, any moron would know that. But a ten year old would have grasped the 'They're paid under the table' to mean they don't pay taxes on their INCOME.

So because you're a moron who didn't specify what taxes you were referring to, suddenly I'm the one who doesn't grasp it.

Oh, and turns out many pay income tax too.

http://www.itep.org/pdf/undocumentedtaxes.pdf

As I said, a ten year old can put two and two together. you lacking the ability to do so is your problem, not mine. You really don't actually read anything you respond to. I said 'For the most part', which means that it doesn't mean that none of them pay income taxes. But the vast majority of them do not. They are migrant workers who go from farm to farm, and having done a stint of that myself once upon a time just to see what it was like, they're paid in cash. No taxes come out of their pay.

The various studies estimate that maybe 50 to 75% pay some form of personal income tax and that pre-reform its at 50, post-reform it would be 100% of them paying it. So half and half, which means that the only thing I got wrong was when I said for the most part.

Right, I make an asinine comment that I didn't bother to actually even factually vet, but it's the other person's problems for not extrapolating from my really terrible dim comment that I meant something else. I really don't read anything I respond to? Which is why I've had to continously correct your and Ice dervish's vapid statements with facts?

Right, so you the entire thrust of your argument about them not paying taxes at all first, which I magically should have had some implied understanding actually meant income taxes, then turned into most not paying them.

Might I interest you in some musical accompaniment for the tap-dancing you're doing?

[The Ice Dervish]

While going back and forth with that idiot Brothern I had almost forgotten what this thread is actually about. Damn. Seriously though, is it really so ******** up that a state is refusing to give illegal immigrants with no papers or right to be here something that only legal residents are supposed to have. It's not rocket science, things like drivers licenses are given to legal residents and if you're here illegally then you have no right to demand one.

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

The Ice Dervish

Do you follow politics? Obama is planning on passing an executive order to make the illegals in this country legal residents. Be informed before you throw a fit.

I do and I don't know what it is you're talking about, which is why I've continously asked you to actually .. you know, gain some knowledge on the subject before you pitch headlong making wild unfounded assertions, to no avail.

Now I know you, like BCJ seem to have a bad case of the ole Obama Tourrettes, but can you actually provide a source for this? The most I've heard is some pretty tacit support on his end for reformation of the immigration system and offering pathways to citizenship for those already in the country. Pretty far cry from executive order to make millions of people legal residents.

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Then refute it, cussing me out is doing you no favors.

I've soundly refuted pretty much everything you've said. I tend to curse when I grow impatient. You're trying my patience.

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I already told you that there are no undocumented immigrants on welfare, but there will be legal residents on welfare once Obama passes his executive order. Learn to read. I'm not talking about the state of everything right now, I'm talking about what it will be. Also, your study is biting you in the a**. Refer to page 8 first bullet point, they are in fact costing the school districts a ton of money to educate them and the number of them is going up and up. Unless you think 79-118 million is a small number rolleyes Also refer to the paragraph under "health insurance". They are less likely to have health insurance and are more likely to rely on emergency services and walk in clinics that are required to help them even if they can't pay. With that said they basically make health care professionals work for free. Then why are the ELL programs being flooded with kids? My mother has been working in education for several years now and even she has noticed a difference.

The executive order you can't show me is even a real thing. No, it isn't, genius. I'm glad you can cherry pick some random fact and run wildly to assert that its "biting me in the a**", but you might want to look at the fact that even at conservative estimates they provide a nominal benefit to the economy and pay in more than they take out. Yes, and they're also LESS LIKELY to seek out that healthcare in the first place.

Good for your mother, I'm not interested in your anecdotal evidence, I'm interested in the facts that I'm having to continuously bash you in the head with.

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Wow, you're such a kind person rolleyes You know you've lost the argument when you can't stop yourself from being mean to your opponent smile . How on earth could you not think that overpopulating a school district full of kids they can't handle is an okay thing? Teachers don't grow on trees, new school buildings don't grow on trees they take months to a year to make. I never claimed that they where overpopulating the country emotion_facepalm Overpopulating a school district that isn't ready for that many kids =/= Overpopulating the entire country.

Oh suddenly when someone's mean to you on the internet, you want to shed a tear? You've been demonizing people who come here largely to seek a better life for themselves and their children, and you want my sympathy now? No, I'm not treating you with kid gloves. How about you take yourself out of your first world privileged nonsense and put yourself in their position for one second. You come to this country illegally because the legal pathways make it extremely difficult to do lawfully, meanwhile if you wait your children and family starve back at home. So you cross over the border, risking your ******** life being caught out in the desert and dying of thirst, or being caught and deported back losing what little money you managed to scrape together to pay a coyote. You come over and you get as many as three or four back breaking jobs to be paid under the table and often taken advantage of. You send a little money back and save up most of it so you can bring your children or family or unborn babies over so they might get an education and get a better life, but spend a great deal of the money in the US supporting the very same business of the morons who decry your presence in the country, many of whom claim its about the legality of the issue but anyone with a brain can realize is actually about the fact that you're brown. And I'm supposed to feel bad for you cuz I was mean to you about the fact that you didn't know about what you were talking about before you demonized these people? Go cry to someone else.

You claimed the reason these school districts were overpopulating was because of illegal immigrants with no basis for that claim.