hobby lobby

[Chieftain Twilight]

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Yes, or provided by companies as it is done for most people today. As I've said, government and bureaucracies ruin most everything they get involved in. I'd rather be taken care of a company that wants to keep me happy so they can get my money rather than a bunch of employees who can't get fired who don't care about me at all

earlier you said that companies shouldn't have to pay for BC. so then, are you reverting back to your previous opinion that BC shouldn't be provided as healthcare?

I'm saying health care shouldn't be required to be provided or had by the government

I already gathered that, it's not what I asked. you said companies shouldn't have to pay for BC, but that healthcare should be provided by companies. so answer the question. are you implying that BC shouldn't qualify as healthcare?

You're getting confused in our semantics. Healthcare should be provided by companies, but there shouldn't be anything forcing companies to provide health care. And companies shouldn't be forced to provide birth control. I'm fine with companies providing health care that includes birth control, my only issue with it is when it's a law to provide health care, birth control or no birth control

well, I simply can't agree. healthcare should be provided to every taxpaying citizen as a socialized service.

[Chieftain Twilight]

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

I know, that's why I put free in quotation marks

Why should I have to pay to make women more able to have sex, and get less periods? That's not my issue

I don't know about your experiences, but my parents are conservatives and I grew up listening to conservative sources. I'm not one, but they certainly understand what socialism and taxes are

the answer is, because women should be given equal treatment and rights, including bodily autonomy. and it really does effect men, too. equality is for everyone. you break down the barriers of gender and sexuality discrimination, the barriers of gender roles, the barriers of inequality, and you will find that men become more free as a side effect of women and gays becoming more free.

They are given equal treatment and rights. It isn't their right to "free" birth control the same way it's not my right to "free" condoms

Should they be given "free" bras as well, so they can be like men in that regard too?

1.) women are NOT treated equally in this country, socially or legally.

2.) yes, women ARE entitled to BC as freely as men are entitled to condoms.

and 3.) that quip about free bras is literally coming out of your a**, because men don't get free boxer shorts. or if we do, you better tell me how, because I sure as hell don't get free boxer shorts.

1. That's a different discussion for a different thread

2. Why should we be entitled to either for free?

3. No, men don't get free boxer shorts. But as men pay for boxer shorts, women pay for their own panties. That leaves women having to pay for bras which men don't have to pay for. That's inequality, and should be corrected so that women may be on the same level as men socially and financially. No?

1.) no, it's not. I created this thread, and I presented it as a debate about constitutional rights. my whole angle has been that the hobby lobby ruling is misogynist. this is and always was a thread about women's rights, as well as about LGBT rights, and about the fact that religion should not be allowed to trump constitutional rights.

2.) we should be entitled to these things because we have a right to bodily autonomy. nobody should be able to tell us what we can and can't do with our bodies. contraception should be free for everyone.

3.) no woman is asking for free bras, or claiming that paying for an extra part of their underwear is inequality. don't make up arguments for us. stick with addressing the ones we present to you.

[My Dog Mr. Kitty]

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Yes, or provided by companies as it is done for most people today. As I've said, government and bureaucracies ruin most everything they get involved in. I'd rather be taken care of a company that wants to keep me happy so they can get my money rather than a bunch of employees who can't get fired who don't care about me at all

earlier you said that companies shouldn't have to pay for BC. so then, are you reverting back to your previous opinion that BC shouldn't be provided as healthcare?

I'm saying health care shouldn't be required to be provided or had by the government

I already gathered that, it's not what I asked. you said companies shouldn't have to pay for BC, but that healthcare should be provided by companies. so answer the question. are you implying that BC shouldn't qualify as healthcare?

You're getting confused in our semantics. Healthcare should be provided by companies, but there shouldn't be anything forcing companies to provide health care. And companies shouldn't be forced to provide birth control. I'm fine with companies providing health care that includes birth control, my only issue with it is when it's a law to provide health care, birth control or no birth control

well, I simply can't agree. healthcare should be provided to every taxpaying citizen as a socialized service.

And that's just a difference in our opinions of the role of the government

[My Dog Mr. Kitty]

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

I know, that's why I put free in quotation marks

Why should I have to pay to make women more able to have sex, and get less periods? That's not my issue

I don't know about your experiences, but my parents are conservatives and I grew up listening to conservative sources. I'm not one, but they certainly understand what socialism and taxes are

the answer is, because women should be given equal treatment and rights, including bodily autonomy. and it really does effect men, too. equality is for everyone. you break down the barriers of gender and sexuality discrimination, the barriers of gender roles, the barriers of inequality, and you will find that men become more free as a side effect of women and gays becoming more free.

They are given equal treatment and rights. It isn't their right to "free" birth control the same way it's not my right to "free" condoms

Should they be given "free" bras as well, so they can be like men in that regard too?

1.) women are NOT treated equally in this country, socially or legally.

2.) yes, women ARE entitled to BC as freely as men are entitled to condoms.

and 3.) that quip about free bras is literally coming out of your a**, because men don't get free boxer shorts. or if we do, you better tell me how, because I sure as hell don't get free boxer shorts.

1. That's a different discussion for a different thread

2. Why should we be entitled to either for free?

3. No, men don't get free boxer shorts. But as men pay for boxer shorts, women pay for their own panties. That leaves women having to pay for bras which men don't have to pay for. That's inequality, and should be corrected so that women may be on the same level as men socially and financially. No?

1.) no, it's not. I created this thread, and I presented it as a debate about constitutional rights. my whole angle has been that the hobby lobby ruling is misogynist. this is and always was a thread about women's rights, as well as about LGBT rights, and about the fact that religion should not be allowed to trump constitutional rights.

2.) we should be entitled to these things because we have a right to bodily autonomy. nobody should be able to tell us what we can and can't do with our bodies. contraception should be free for everyone.

3.) no woman is asking for free bras, or claiming that paying for an extra part of their underwear is inequality. don't make up arguments for us. stick with addressing the ones we present to you.

1. Where in the constitution does it say you can have free access to birth control?

2. No one is saying what we can and can't do with this ruling. This isn't against birth control at all, only against forcing it to be provided

3. My point is that if your argument is that women should get anything for free that could bring them closer to the role of men, or for things they have to pay for that men don't, then you should be in support of more things than just birth control. Like bras

[Chieftain Twilight]

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

I'm saying health care shouldn't be required to be provided or had by the government

I already gathered that, it's not what I asked. you said companies shouldn't have to pay for BC, but that healthcare should be provided by companies. so answer the question. are you implying that BC shouldn't qualify as healthcare?

You're getting confused in our semantics. Healthcare should be provided by companies, but there shouldn't be anything forcing companies to provide health care. And companies shouldn't be forced to provide birth control. I'm fine with companies providing health care that includes birth control, my only issue with it is when it's a law to provide health care, birth control or no birth control

well, I simply can't agree. healthcare should be provided to every taxpaying citizen as a socialized service.

And that's just a difference in our opinions of the role of the government

what does a government exist for if not to protect and serve it's citizens? that should be the only reason we have a government, and the only reason we pay taxes.

an army to defend ourselves, not to invade other countries.

a set of services available to and paid for by the citizens (including healthcare, disability, unemployment, public transportation, postal, legal council, education, rehabilitation, and so on).

the protection and enforcement of our constitutional rights.

anything else should just plain be left out of the hands of the government. law enforcement, for example. ******** that. regulating the economy. government control over that has gotten us into this mess. corporations are being given unbelievable amounts of taxpayer money for failing. banks and oil companies are being rewarded for collapsing, taking their investors' money down the drain with them. companies are given legal rights to literally lie and steal from investors with con schemes. this s**t is ridiculous.

what do you think government should exist for?

[Chieftain Twilight]

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

They are given equal treatment and rights. It isn't their right to "free" birth control the same way it's not my right to "free" condoms

Should they be given "free" bras as well, so they can be like men in that regard too?

1.) women are NOT treated equally in this country, socially or legally.

2.) yes, women ARE entitled to BC as freely as men are entitled to condoms.

and 3.) that quip about free bras is literally coming out of your a**, because men don't get free boxer shorts. or if we do, you better tell me how, because I sure as hell don't get free boxer shorts.

1. That's a different discussion for a different thread

2. Why should we be entitled to either for free?

3. No, men don't get free boxer shorts. But as men pay for boxer shorts, women pay for their own panties. That leaves women having to pay for bras which men don't have to pay for. That's inequality, and should be corrected so that women may be on the same level as men socially and financially. No?

1.) no, it's not. I created this thread, and I presented it as a debate about constitutional rights. my whole angle has been that the hobby lobby ruling is misogynist. this is and always was a thread about women's rights, as well as about LGBT rights, and about the fact that religion should not be allowed to trump constitutional rights.

2.) we should be entitled to these things because we have a right to bodily autonomy. nobody should be able to tell us what we can and can't do with our bodies. contraception should be free for everyone.

3.) no woman is asking for free bras, or claiming that paying for an extra part of their underwear is inequality. don't make up arguments for us. stick with addressing the ones we present to you.

1. Where in the constitution does it say you can have free access to birth control?

2. No one is saying what we can and can't do with this ruling. This isn't against birth control at all, only against forcing it to be provided

3. My point is that if your argument is that women should get anything for free that could bring them closer to the role of men, or for things they have to pay for that men don't, then you should be in support of more things than just birth control. Like bras

:sighs.: we've come full-circle by this point. we've been through all this before. I'm not repeating myself.

[My Dog Mr. Kitty]

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

I'm saying health care shouldn't be required to be provided or had by the government

I already gathered that, it's not what I asked. you said companies shouldn't have to pay for BC, but that healthcare should be provided by companies. so answer the question. are you implying that BC shouldn't qualify as healthcare?

You're getting confused in our semantics. Healthcare should be provided by companies, but there shouldn't be anything forcing companies to provide health care. And companies shouldn't be forced to provide birth control. I'm fine with companies providing health care that includes birth control, my only issue with it is when it's a law to provide health care, birth control or no birth control

well, I simply can't agree. healthcare should be provided to every taxpaying citizen as a socialized service.

And that's just a difference in our opinions of the role of the government

Chieftain Twilight

what does a government exist for if not to protect and serve it's citizens? that should be the only reason we have a government, and the only reason we pay taxes.

Agreed

Quote:

an army to defend ourselves, not to invade other countries.

Agreed, although there are times when invading other countries are necessary

Quote:

a set of services available to and paid for by the citizens (including healthcare, disability, unemployment, public transportation, postal, legal council, education, rehabilitation, and so on).

I agree on some of those, disagree on others

Quote:

the protection and enforcement of our constitutional rights.

Agreed

Quote:

anything else should just plain be left out of the hands of the government. law enforcement, for example. ******** that.

If there's no police force, how would laws be enforced?

Quote:

regulating the economy. government control over that has gotten us into this mess. corporations are being given unbelievable amounts of taxpayer money for failing. banks and oil companies are being rewarded for collapsing, taking their investors' money down the drain with them. companies are given legal rights to literally lie and steal from investors with con schemes. this s**t is ridiculous.

Agreed, although some regulation of the markets are required, or you get stuff like Enron a lot, and all trust in the entire economy is lost and it all falls apart

Quote:

what do you think government should exist for?

To ensure that no man needs to fear others, and to find a balance through elections by it's people between where one person's rights end and where another's begins

[Chieftain Twilight]

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

Chieftain Twilight

My Dog Mr. Kitty

I'm saying health care shouldn't be required to be provided or had by the government

I already gathered that, it's not what I asked. you said companies shouldn't have to pay for BC, but that healthcare should be provided by companies. so answer the question. are you implying that BC shouldn't qualify as healthcare?

You're getting confused in our semantics. Healthcare should be provided by companies, but there shouldn't be anything forcing companies to provide health care. And companies shouldn't be forced to provide birth control. I'm fine with companies providing health care that includes birth control, my only issue with it is when it's a law to provide health care, birth control or no birth control

well, I simply can't agree. healthcare should be provided to every taxpaying citizen as a socialized service.

And that's just a difference in our opinions of the role of the government

Chieftain Twilight

what does a government exist for if not to protect and serve it's citizens? that should be the only reason we have a government, and the only reason we pay taxes.

Agreed

Quote:

an army to defend ourselves, not to invade other countries.

Agreed, although there are times when invading other countries are necessary

Quote:

a set of services available to and paid for by the citizens (including healthcare, disability, unemployment, public transportation, postal, legal council, education, rehabilitation, and so on).

I agree on some of those, disagree on others

Quote:

the protection and enforcement of our constitutional rights.

Agreed

Quote:

anything else should just plain be left out of the hands of the government. law enforcement, for example. ******** that.

If there's no police force, how would laws be enforced?

Quote:

regulating the economy. government control over that has gotten us into this mess. corporations are being given unbelievable amounts of taxpayer money for failing. banks and oil companies are being rewarded for collapsing, taking their investors' money down the drain with them. companies are given legal rights to literally lie and steal from investors with con schemes. this s**t is ridiculous.

Agreed, although some regulation of the markets are required, or you get stuff like Enron a lot, and all trust in the entire economy is lost and it all falls apart

Quote:

what do you think government should exist for?

To ensure that no man needs to fear others, and to find a balance through elections by it's people between where one person's rights end and where another's begins

people can police themselves. and if they come upon a conflict that they cannot settle on their own like adults, they can just take it to court. we don't police for this. at the very least, cops shouldn't patrol.

and what are the things you agree and disagree on when it comes to social services?

and I'm entirely against regulated markets.

[village midget]

My Dog Mr. Kitty

village midget

Chieftain Twilight

it's not just an opinion. BC can save a woman's life. it can regulate pain. and it can help her to maintain her independence. that's literally the definition of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Essentially it enables women to behave socially and financially like men by removing the risk of pregnancy. Some men find this very threatening.

You think this whole issue is about being against birth control? I love birth control, and I love that my girlfriend is on birth control

And you're saying that in the mind frame that men have zero consequences of unprotected sex. That's a complete and outright lie

I love it when people tell me what I am thinking, base their responses on assumptions, veer off on mad tangents and get excessively confrontational over stuff they are projecting.

I didn't think or say any of that you nana, try again rolleyes