hacking laws

Are anti-hacking laws nessisary?

Total Votes:

[ 0 ]

This poll closed on February 8, 2005.
No longer accepting new votes.

[Darkfire the Wolf Demon]

well im an ex hacker but i quit because i went to jail 2 times so i quit for good...

[.-The.Great.Mandu-.]

duelblade

SlashDot

I think it is overkill. Most hackers are out there for fun.

Free Kevin!!!!

whos kevin?

kevin mitnick

[stillvisions]

Darkfire the Wolf Demon

well im an ex hacker but i quit because i went to jail 2 times so i quit for good...

All before the age of 15 too rolleyes

[Ophichius]

Could someone please elaborate on exactly which bills, and which sections of bills contain these 'anti-hacking'* laws? And please specify locale as well. Discussion of mythical 'anti-hacking'* bills is quite silly, what exactly would be proscribed? How would these laws be enforced? Questions like this need to be answered.

-O

*Thread author's term, not mine.

[SnoKone]

Usagi Shounen

ced1106

//snip
Uh... care to name a web site that fits this description?

(Okay, besides this one blaugh


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

Okay, the analogy makes basic sense - people will use previously exploited systems as anonymous launching points for new attacks.

However, continuning the stated analogy, this doesn't give the community the right to burn the building down. It means that the owners are notified and they either clean up, or then they risk being charged. And yes, if a server owner is notified of hacking attempts coming from their server and they do nothing about it, then they could be considered to be liable.

Botnets. Thousands of broadband-connected home PCs own3d by RXers. How do you bring charges against so many individual end users. Okay, granted, it's not quite as widespread as the media wants us to believe, but it happens. I did see an interesting suggestion on ISC awhile back about ISPs setting up "leper colonies" for perpetually infected end users until they clean up.

And then there's the advertising servers. The Guardian had to cut access to it's banner ads because an ad server got infected with a worm a few weeks ago (can't remember which worm, I'll look it up if you want.) Same thing happened to Comedy Central.

Now, I'll concede that it's wrong to wreck someone's server, even if it's being used to launch attacks, but what do you do in the meantime while you're waiting for the courts to shut down servers that won't clean up, especially if they're overseas?

[WaruiKoohii]

.-The.Great.Mandu-.

duelblade

SlashDot

I think it is overkill. Most hackers are out there for fun.

Free Kevin!!!!

whos kevin?

kevin mitnick

I saw Kevin Mitnick speak this summer, and it didn't look like he was in jail at the time sweatdrop

[Threx]

XsaraDragon

I think that there should be soem laws about hacking and all, but for now, there are just too many people who think that all of hacking consists of bad people doing bad things that they shouldn't. Not all of hacking is like that.

Ive seen alot of this.
I have to make a comment.

If I am a 'hacker' and I hack into Company A's computer, and leave a note saying "Your backdoor is open, call me at..." odds are they are going to press charges. I was not invited in their system. Or even if i just leave the note without the number. they check their logs, and get the police involved and track me down. Again. I'm in legal troubles.

Situation two.
Company A hires me. They tell me my job is to look for holes in their security. So I hack in, leave the note, and look for other holes. They do not press charges because I just did my job.

[pux0r3]

laws are definatley overkill. Like, I can see laws agains virus making (although, I'm kinda in the dark here, since there are no large scale linux viruses... or am I in the light... hmm... need to work on that analogy). And breaking into computers shouldn't be allowed, although I'd get really ... annoyed ... if a friends isp decided to press charges for hacking into a friends comp. Can that happen?

as far as I understand, you can get in deep trouble for hacking game consoles, games, and os's, even if you are doing it only when playing with friends. Hardware hacking, or modding, of a game console should not be made illegal (I know m$ is trying to make it). Same with hacking games, if you give me a game, and don't add a mod option, and I really wanna add something, I will. Like new cars in GTA:VC for the pc. Wallhacks should be ok for private lan's, if you know the people there, and you just do it as a joke or something. Also, windows, could gain back popularity from linux is users were allowed to swap wm's and stuff... again, m$ doesn't want you messin with anything.

everything in the above paragraph is something I've heard of laws at least being considered or pushed for ... hmm ... legality (what do you call it when a law is accepted... didn't take History this year). Well, yeah... I think I got my point across. well, I think that above paragraph, anything in it, should be legal. Since it's modding on your own system for your own use. It shouldn't be discouraged to share mods either, since it may make the game in question more fun, or the os (windows) in question more usable.

and how in the world would you managed to not get caugt hacking into someones system... destrory their logs, your logs, and the logs of the isp's in question??? afaik, there will always be a trail.

[Darkphantom]

duelblade

SlashDot

I think it is overkill. Most hackers are out there for fun.

Free Kevin!!!!

whos kevin?

Kevin Mitnick an agent of the darkside.
From a lower class background and full of anger and hate.

Some blackhat phreaker/hacker guy whom the american goverment are terrified of and they won't even let him near a phone or computer anymore for fear of what damage he might casue. he has been given numerous chances to reform but always goses back to his evil ways. Stealing credit cards, Compromising Phone companys servers ect.

Tis a shame becasue he's actually quite skilled sofar as hackers go.

[BPrice]

Darkphantom

duelblade

SlashDot

I think it is overkill. Most hackers are out there for fun.

Free Kevin!!!!

whos kevin?

Kevin Mitnick an agent of the darkside.
From a lower class background and full of anger and hate.

Some blackhat phreaker/hacker guy whom the american goverment are terrified of and they won't even let him near a phone or computer anymore for fear of what damage he might casue. he has been given numerous chances to reform but always goses back to his evil ways. Stealing credit cards, Compromising Phone companys servers ect.

Tis a shame becasue he's actually quite skilled sofar as hackers go.

Fallacy. Mitnick performed social engineering attacks to get into systems. He actually always lacked technical attacking skill.

[Threx]

I coulda sworn mitnick was inside the law these days, working for a security company, writing books, and doing seminars.

[Kaze Nigai]

pux0r3

laws are definatley overkill. Like, I can see laws agains virus making (although, I'm kinda in the dark here, since there are no large scale linux viruses... or am I in the light... hmm... need to work on that analogy). And breaking into computers shouldn't be allowed, although I'd get really ... annoyed ... if a friends isp decided to press charges for hacking into a friends comp. Can that happen?

as far as I understand, you can get in deep trouble for hacking game consoles, games, and os's, even if you are doing it only when playing with friends. Hardware hacking, or modding, of a game console should not be made illegal (I know m$ is trying to make it). Same with hacking games, if you give me a game, and don't add a mod option, and I really wanna add something, I will. Like new cars in GTA:VC for the pc. Wallhacks should be ok for private lan's, if you know the people there, and you just do it as a joke or something. Also, windows, could gain back popularity from linux is users were allowed to swap wm's and stuff... again, m$ doesn't want you messin with anything.

everything in the above paragraph is something I've heard of laws at least being considered or pushed for ... hmm ... legality (what do you call it when a law is accepted... didn't take History this year). Well, yeah... I think I got my point across. well, I think that above paragraph, anything in it, should be legal. Since it's modding on your own system for your own use. It shouldn't be discouraged to share mods either, since it may make the game in question more fun, or the os (windows) in question more usable.

and how in the world would you managed to not get caugt hacking into someones system... destrory their logs, your logs, and the logs of the isp's in question??? afaik, there will always be a trail.

I just want to address the games issue. Modding an X-box and using it for Online purposes can be considered a violation of the ToS. The same goes for games that go online; Hacking them violates the ToS.

As far as hacking an X-box and Games is fine UNLESS you redistribute them - much like making back-up copies of your own music.

[pux0r3]

I can't afford 2 xbox's, and mods on 1.

and whats the point of modding if you can't share it. if I add 6 new weapons to halo 2, and add a new level, wouldn't it be awsome to be able to play with friends?

I really don't like ToS's. when I buy something, I like to think that I've purchased it, not just licensing it. when I buy a pen, I can take it apart, reassemble it, modify it, and redistribute it, but I can't do the same with a piece of software.

something's wrong here.

[stillvisions]

SnoKone

Botnets. Thousands of broadband-connected home PCs own3d by RXers. How do you bring charges against so many individual end users. Okay, granted, it's not quite as widespread as the media wants us to believe, but it happens. I did see an interesting suggestion on ISC awhile back about ISPs setting up "leper colonies" for perpetually infected end users until they clean up.

And then there's the advertising servers. The Guardian had to cut access to it's banner ads because an ad server got infected with a worm a few weeks ago (can't remember which worm, I'll look it up if you want.) Same thing happened to Comedy Central.

Now, I'll concede that it's wrong to wreck someone's server, even if it's being used to launch attacks, but what do you do in the meantime while you're waiting for the courts to shut down servers that won't clean up, especially if they're overseas?

You can block all packets from any IP/host/domain/whatever you want. If servers are being dumb, add them to the list. If your advertisers are infected with something, tell them to clean up or be dropped.

Actually, I wasn't talking about botnets as much as something like a compromised *nix system where someone has root access is able to mask their actions as they take on further systems. Admittedly, botnets are a problem, but I think ISPs are gradually getting a brain and cutting off systems if they've been owned and are DoSing or spamming. In all cases, a "fix or be disconnected" order can be given.

My worry with vigilante attacks is that it gives a legitimate cover for possibly illegitimate activites. Then you're basing a crime solely on the basis of intent instead of actions.