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Are you familiar with the beliefs of Wicca?
Yes
46%
 46%  [ 23 ]
No
16%
 16%  [ 8 ]
A little bit
38%
 38%  [ 19 ]
Other
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 50


Neferet -House of Night-

PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:36 am
brad175
I almost forgot to address magic. As a Christian, I do not deny that magic is possible. In fact, according to the Bible, people can do some supernatural things, but they get their power from 1 of 2 sources: God or Satan and his demons.
Examples:
Moses parted the Red Sea - God
The demon-possessed man in the Bible's super-strength (broke chains) - Satan
The ability of God's people to lay hands upon someone and heal them of their sickness - God
Consulting spirits(which are really demons and they're probably screwing with you) - Satan
Speaking in the Heavenly tongue - God

Wiccan magic would undoubtedly fall into the Satan category
I know in saying this that I am calling the practice of Wiccan magic evil, but I'm merely attempting to clarify my faith's position on that of Wicca.
If you think about it according to the apostles our technology is a product of witchcraft. Witchcraft being apart of the unknown. So that nifty computer you're using would be a sin and against the Bible and your punishment would be stoning according to the OT.

Also. Wiccans like many pagans don't believe in Satan. He's nothing more than a mythical creature to us. He doesn't exist. We do believe in Cerunnos the horned one and Pan but as far as horned goatmen that throw fire at you and damn you to "Hell", he doesn't exist to us. Nor should he because Paganism has been here longer than Christianity.  
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:40 am
To say that Paganism has been here longer than Christianity is really quite misleading, since Paganism is anything BUT the Abrahamic faiths, by definition.

If you're talking about the Wiccan religion, that's been here about 70 years. If you're talking about Yam and Ba'al, that's true by about 10,000 years or so. Paganism covers many thousands of religions, so lumping "paganism" into one thing doesn't really make sense in this context- Wicca hasn't been here long.

I guess it would help if you clarify your gods, give them names and the religions from which they originate, so we know exactly where you're coming from.  

divineseraph


Neferet -House of Night-

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:24 am
divineseraph
To say that Paganism has been here longer than Christianity is really quite misleading, since Paganism is anything BUT the Abrahamic faiths, by definition.

If you're talking about the Wiccan religion, that's been here about 70 years. If you're talking about Yam and Ba'al, that's true by about 10,000 years or so. Paganism covers many thousands of religions, so lumping "paganism" into one thing doesn't really make sense in this context- Wicca hasn't been here long.

I guess it would help if you clarify your gods, give them names and the religions from which they originate, so we know exactly where you're coming from.
Each one of those religions have been around. The longest I believe is Druidism or Hinduism. (I say Druidism because of Stonehenge). It's a close tie and the old Earth Worship doesn't really have an exact name. Paganism is a name lumping all the polytheistic religions together. It's a name created by the Christians.

I do agree with you that Wicca is a new age religion. But so is Christianity at 2000 yrs old.  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:02 pm
Dark Angel Rai
divineseraph
To say that Paganism has been here longer than Christianity is really quite misleading, since Paganism is anything BUT the Abrahamic faiths, by definition.

If you're talking about the Wiccan religion, that's been here about 70 years. If you're talking about Yam and Ba'al, that's true by about 10,000 years or so. Paganism covers many thousands of religions, so lumping "paganism" into one thing doesn't really make sense in this context- Wicca hasn't been here long.

I guess it would help if you clarify your gods, give them names and the religions from which they originate, so we know exactly where you're coming from.
Each one of those religions have been around. The longest I believe is Druidism or Hinduism. (I say Druidism because of Stonehenge). It's a close tie and the old Earth Worship doesn't really have an exact name. Paganism is a name lumping all the polytheistic religions together. It's a name created by the Christians.

I do agree with you that Wicca is a new age religion. But so is Christianity at 2000 yrs old.


This still isn't really answering my questions. Which gods do you follow? What are their names, their origins, their acts and their requirements? The thing I dislike about "Paganism" is how vague it is- You're exactly right, it covers ALL of the non-christian religions. But Hindu is not Buddhism is not Wicca is not Atonism.

I have no problem with having vague views of God- God is Vague Himself, or else he'd have made it clear EXACTLY what he is in a chariot of flame and burning brimstone already. But this lumping of paganism seems like a way of not really knowing anything but hiding behind "paganism" as a defense mechanism, or to seem interesting and different. It seems, frankly, like intentional vagueness to be different, in a field that is hard to pin down because of it's many-sided nature.

Of course, if you really are a neo-pagan of sorts, you should be well versed in ancient theologies and able to point out your gods and what they stand for.  

divineseraph


Neferet -House of Night-

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:04 pm
divineseraph
Dark Angel Rai
divineseraph
To say that Paganism has been here longer than Christianity is really quite misleading, since Paganism is anything BUT the Abrahamic faiths, by definition.

If you're talking about the Wiccan religion, that's been here about 70 years. If you're talking about Yam and Ba'al, that's true by about 10,000 years or so. Paganism covers many thousands of religions, so lumping "paganism" into one thing doesn't really make sense in this context- Wicca hasn't been here long.

I guess it would help if you clarify your gods, give them names and the religions from which they originate, so we know exactly where you're coming from.
Each one of those religions have been around. The longest I believe is Druidism or Hinduism. (I say Druidism because of Stonehenge). It's a close tie and the old Earth Worship doesn't really have an exact name. Paganism is a name lumping all the polytheistic religions together. It's a name created by the Christians.

I do agree with you that Wicca is a new age religion. But so is Christianity at 2000 yrs old.


This still isn't really answering my questions. Which gods do you follow? What are their names, their origins, their acts and their requirements? The thing I dislike about "Paganism" is how vague it is- You're exactly right, it covers ALL of the non-christian religions. But Hindu is not Buddhism is not Wicca is not Atonism.

I have no problem with having vague views of God- God is Vague Himself, or else he'd have made it clear EXACTLY what he is in a chariot of flame and burning brimstone already. But this lumping of paganism seems like a way of not really knowing anything but hiding behind "paganism" as a defense mechanism, or to seem interesting and different. It seems, frankly, like intentional vagueness to be different, in a field that is hard to pin down because of it's many-sided nature.

Of course, if you really are a neo-pagan of sorts, you should be well versed in ancient theologies and able to point out your gods and what they stand for.
I don't worship Gods persay nor do I have a specfic religion. (which is why I'm eclectic). I follow my own path and research the things around me (magic (the k is used for ceremonial magic only), otherkin, spirit animals, tarot, etc). I'm interested in the unknown.

And again. The origin of the word pagan or paganism isn't something I just pulled out of my arse. In fact as I stated previously all the different polytheistic religions were lumped together by the Early Christians. Not by me. Pagans use the derogatory name Pagan as a symbol of pride just like homosexuals use the word gay as a symbol of pride.

But as far as what I believe, I dun really know myself. I dun know if the path I'm walking is even right. I like following my own drum and doing research on everything pagan related so it helps me in the long run. I believe that we all believe in the same God, so really naming my diff Gods and Goddesses would be pointless. I like calling myself an eclectic pagan but I guess you could call me an agnostic with pagan roots. But whatever the case, it's a label.

And this may be half-arsed but really I don't have to exactly explain my beliefs to you and vice versa. This topic is Ask a Wiccan not ask the closest thing to a Wiccan. neutral  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:28 pm
That's exactly my point, though- It's too large to just be "pagan"- It encompasses thousands of religions over hundreds of thousands of years.

I agree that all the gods lump into one God. Since YHWH is the most established, with three large-scale and unified religions, I call god YHWH. The other gods of other religions are either different views of YHWH's acts or views of YHWH as separate parts, as christians did with the trinity and jews did with the Sephirah.  

divineseraph


TN_Lark

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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:50 pm
divineseraph
That's exactly my point, though- It's too large to just be "pagan"- It encompasses thousands of religions over hundreds of thousands of years.

I agree that all the gods lump into one God. Since YHWH is the most established, with three large-scale and unified religions, I call god YHWH. The other gods of other religions are either different views of YHWH's acts or views of YHWH as separate parts, as christians did with the trinity and jews did with the Sephirah.


You will find that not all Pagans hold to the belief that all Gods are one God and all Goddesses one Goddess. Many of us are hard polytheists and believe that each Deity is a separate entity, unique, and standing on their own.

I personally follow some of the Gods of ancient Egypt. I have been called to service by Sekhmet in particular; however, I also work regularly with Anpu, Tehuti, and Menthu. When I was called by these Deities I spent quite a bit of time reading about the culture that worshipped them, their mythology, their symbolism, and the ways in which they were worshipped and then paid attention to how these beliefs were important in my own life. Many Wiccans do the same thing. Just as Christians study the writings of the Bible, many Wiccans also pay attention to what is written and known about the Deities they worship.

-Lark-  
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:35 pm
TN_Lark
divineseraph
That's exactly my point, though- It's too large to just be "pagan"- It encompasses thousands of religions over hundreds of thousands of years.

I agree that all the gods lump into one God. Since YHWH is the most established, with three large-scale and unified religions, I call god YHWH. The other gods of other religions are either different views of YHWH's acts or views of YHWH as separate parts, as christians did with the trinity and jews did with the Sephirah.


You will find that not all Pagans hold to the belief that all Gods are one God and all Goddesses one Goddess. Many of us are hard polytheists and believe that each Deity is a separate entity, unique, and standing on their own.

I personally follow some of the Gods of ancient Egypt. I have been called to service by Sekhmet in particular; however, I also work regularly with Anpu, Tehuti, and Menthu. When I was called by these Deities I spent quite a bit of time reading about the culture that worshipped them, their mythology, their symbolism, and the ways in which they were worshipped and then paid attention to how these beliefs were important in my own life. Many Wiccans do the same thing. Just as Christians study the writings of the Bible, many Wiccans also pay attention to what is written and known about the Deities they worship.

-Lark-


How do you account for the source of the universe being a singular, infinite entity as described by physical equation?  

divineseraph


Neferet -House of Night-

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:26 am
If you are really and honestly Wiccan then can you please tell me what your initiation lineage is and tell me what coven you belong to?  
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:22 pm
-xXLady RaiXx-
If you are really and honestly Wiccan then can you please tell me what your initiation lineage is and tell me what coven you belong to?


If you are speaking of Wicca as being only those who are of a BTW lineage then by your definition I would not be Wiccan but rather of TIW (Traditional Initiatory Witchcraft). My lineage goes back through initiation to the 1960's but not directly to one of the New Forest Covens. I am the founding HPS of Tangled Moon Coven and currently the HPS of the Oak, Ash, and Thorn Tradition.

That being said, I am shortly going to be initiated into a Gardnerian coven so at that point I will meet the traditional definition of being Wiccan.

-Lark-  

TN_Lark

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TN_Lark

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:25 pm
Quote:
How do you account for the source of the universe being a singular, infinite entity as described by physical equation?


I do not believe that there is any sort of scientific formula that can prove or disprove the existence of either the Christian God or the Gods of all of the other religions. Although I do acknowledge that numbers and statistics can be warped to prove almost anything.

The last that I knew is that current science does not ascribe the creation of the universe to any divine being but rather to a physical event called the Big Bang.

-Lark-  
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 1:08 pm
Okay: Lady Raixx,
What entitiy(ies) give you the most amount of energy that you commonly use for your practices? Which divine energy sources grant you the ability to perform your daily duties to give you your beneficial control of the universe around you?

Can you show any documentation that Paganistic Practices have been around longer than Judaism, let alone Christianity? Stonehenge is not an example as it is a structure. Documentation, please.

Hinduism can be traced back to the time of Abraham, thereby being shown as a possible link up to the Kabbalistic teachings often associated with the early Hebraic practices. In fact, its interesting to note that early Hindu practices focused on the one who walked among us (Brahma) and (Abram) the one who wandered to the West.  

Vasilius Konstantinos


Neferet -House of Night-

PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:50 am
Quote:
Okay: Lady Raixx,
What entitiy(ies) give you the most amount of energy that you commonly use for your practices? Which divine energy sources grant you the ability to perform your daily duties to give you your beneficial control of the universe around you?
I never said I practiced did I?

Quote:
Can you show any documentation that Paganistic Practices have been around longer than Judaism, let alone Christianity? Stonehenge is not an example as it is a structure. Documentation, please.
How bloody hard is it to freaking do some bloody research.

Quote:
Hinduism can be traced back to the time of Abraham, thereby being shown as a possible link up to the Kabbalistic teachings often associated with the early Hebraic practices. In fact, its interesting to note that early Hindu practices focused on the one who walked among us (Brahma) and (Abram) the one who wandered to the West.
Prove it.  
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:49 pm
Vasilius Konstantinos
Okay: Lady Raixx,
What entitiy(ies) give you the most amount of energy that you commonly use for your practices? Which divine energy sources grant you the ability to perform your daily duties to give you your beneficial control of the universe around you?

Can you show any documentation that Paganistic Practices have been around longer than Judaism, let alone Christianity? Stonehenge is not an example as it is a structure. Documentation, please.

Hinduism can be traced back to the time of Abraham, thereby being shown as a possible link up to the Kabbalistic teachings often associated with the early Hebraic practices. In fact, its interesting to note that early Hindu practices focused on the one who walked among us (Brahma) and (Abram) the one who wandered to the West.


Most of us do not rely on any "entities" to provide the energy to effect changes in our environment. We simply use the energies of all of nature around us, the earth, the sun, the moon, the heavens. Think of it as being similar to the concept of the Force in Star Wars. We believe that our Gods have given us the ability to harness these energies to make changes in our lives all by ourselves rather than having to wait on Divine intervention to accomplish the same thing.

If you want to look at evidence of the ancient nature of Pagan religions I would refer you to the Epic of Gilgamesh which dates to approximately 2700 BCE. Or you could refer to the Pyramid Texts from Egypt which date to 2400-2300 BCE. The beginning of the Hindu faith are dated between 5500–2600 BCE. Of course these religions did not spring up full grown at the time they were written down. They were in fact around long before anyone invented any form of writing to document them.

As for being older than Judaism, I will point out that according to Jewish calculations Abraham lived between 1812 BCE to 1637 BCE which would make Judaism nearly 1000 years younger than The religion of Sumeria described in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Some 800 years younger than the first documentation regarding religion in Egypt. And possibly as much as 4000 years younger than Hinduism.

Do you really believe that no one had any sort of religion prior to the advent of Judaism? People have been searching for the meaning of life and for connection with Divinity of some sort for as long as they have had the mental capacity to wonder "Why??" The need to believe in Something seems to be hard-wired into our brains.

-Lark-  

TN_Lark

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:58 pm
TN_Lark
Quote:
How do you account for the source of the universe being a singular, infinite entity as described by physical equation?


I do not believe that there is any sort of scientific formula that can prove or disprove the existence of either the Christian God or the Gods of all of the other religions. Although I do acknowledge that numbers and statistics can be warped to prove almost anything.

The last that I knew is that current science does not ascribe the creation of the universe to any divine being but rather to a physical event called the Big Bang.

-Lark-


That's the how, not the why.  
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