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Are you familiar with the beliefs of Wicca?
Yes
46%
 46%  [ 23 ]
No
16%
 16%  [ 8 ]
A little bit
38%
 38%  [ 19 ]
Other
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 50


lordstar

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:55 pm
brad175
To respond to lordstar, I have heard of the theory in which you speak, though I believe it to be merely speculation of an idle mind, one that all chance upon at one point in their life. "The center of your own universe." To entertain this thought was fun at a time, as sort of a "Truman Show" affair, but I now turn to falsifiable philosophies and such.

Allow me to explain myself further concerning my initial response. I was using gravity as an example that proves the rule that there is only one truth. No matter what I do or think, gravity exists in the same way. Gravity is a known truth. The fact that any particular religion cannot be proven is irrelevant. Gravity still proves that reality does not conform to beliefs. You typed "but they ARE true for their believers." Am I to assume that you believe reality is shaped, or rather formed by one's desires? If so, this sounds a lot like lordstar's response.


you know that there are conditions that must be met for gravity to work right...perhaps we have not discovered all the rules

crazy talk i know but it's possible  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:21 pm
Quote:
Allow me to explain myself further concerning my initial response. I was using gravity as an example that proves the rule that there is only one truth. No matter what I do or think, gravity exists in the same way. Gravity is a known truth. The fact that any particular religion cannot be proven is irrelevant. Gravity still proves that reality does not conform to beliefs. You typed "but they ARE true for their believers." Am I to assume that you believe reality is shaped, or rather formed by one's desires? If so, this sounds a lot like lordstar's response.


You are confusing "facts" with "truth" and they aren't the same thing. Gravity is a fact, it can be proven through scientific study. Fire is hot, water is wet...all facts.

Religions are not facts..they are beliefs and they are truths. They are real and accurate to those who follow them..but unlike facts they cannot be proven. And it is possible to have many, many truths.

Christians beliefe that Jesus is the Son of God and their Savior. Because they believe this it is their truth..but it cannot be proven as a fact. A Muslim believes in the truth of Allah. A Wiccan has other truths. And all of these truths are real to the people who believe in them. Some truths are even shared across religious boundaries such as the idea that we should treat others with love and respect. But none of us can prove that our truths are the only one or that they are facts.

And yes, I do belive that it is possible to change the shape of reality in conformance with desire and will..that's what magic is all about.

I will also point out that I am not here to try to defend my beliefs to anyone. What I am here to do is to try to answer questions about what Wiccans believe and how they practice so that people can understand that we are not dangerous or threatening people. When all of us understand the other better the world will be a kinder and better place to live.

-Lark-  

TN_Lark

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Optical Illision

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:24 am
Reformed Baptist
TN_Lark
To answer your last question first. I believe that the teachings of Christianity as are attributed to Jesus are a lovely religion..just not for me. However, it seems to me that many Christians today are forgetting that at the heart of Jesus' teachings was the admonition to love others. I believe that he meant for each of us to love ALL others (as he showed in the stories regarding both the tax collector and the prostitute), but that it has come to mean love others ONLY IF THEY ARE JUST LIKE ME. So I hear Christian churches who preach hate against homosexuals, Catholics, Pagans like me, and anyone else that they see as not being in accord with their particular beliefs. Is this the message that you believe Jesus died to teach?

Even Jesus told the Pharisees that they were hypocrites and their Father was the Devil. When we Christians preaching against Homosexuality, Roman Catholicism and Paganism (I dont like to use that word) we meant to rock the boat to get your attention of falsehood. We are not attacking the individual rather we are attacking ideology or beliefs of that individual because we love them. We are trying to give your knowledge so that the truth may be known. There are preachers who say that "wicked evil people deserve Hell" and the truth is we all Christians deserve Hell.

ANother question, do you believe that other religions are false?


I have a question for you. What is wrong with being Catholic. I'm Roman Catholic and am just as much a Christian as a Baptsist.  
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:12 am
TN_Lark
To answer your last question first. I believe that the teachings of Christianity as are attributed to Jesus are a lovely religion..just not for me. However, it seems to me that many Christians today are forgetting that at the heart of Jesus' teachings was the admonition to love others. I believe that he meant for each of us to love ALL others (as he showed in the stories regarding both the tax collector and the prostitute), but that it has come to mean love others ONLY IF THEY ARE JUST LIKE ME. So I hear Christian churches who preach hate against homosexuals, Catholics, Pagans like me, and anyone else that they see as not being in accord with their particular beliefs. Is this the message that you believe Jesus died to teach?


I'm not trying to come off as a closed-minded "my way's the only way" Christian but I just wanted to provide a reason for why non-christians see it as you put it "love others only if they are just like me".

Duteronomy 18:10-12
"Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord..."

Again, I'm not trying to come off as rude so I apologize if I do. But from what I've seen many Christians hear Wicca and immediately think, "They cast spells and talk to the dead and that's wrong!" or some of the more extreme versions are "They use magic and it only works because Satan makes it work to turn them away from God." (I only know this because I practiced Wicca for a few years and heard it constantly from my Christian friends)

I believe that Jesus did not die to pass on a message or teach us a lesson. He died to save those who believe in him and follow him. He taught in his time with us to love one another definately, but also to keep company that believes in him and God so that we don't stray from him and end up losing our faith just because it's say, "not the cool thing to be Christian and none of my friends are."  

Bl AcK LaB el E N i g M A


TN_Lark

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:10 am
bleedingotep


I'm not trying to come off as a closed-minded "my way's the only way" Christian but I just wanted to provide a reason for why non-christians see it as you put it "love others only if they are just like me".

Duteronomy 18:10-12
"Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord..."

Again, I'm not trying to come off as rude so I apologize if I do. But from what I've seen many Christians hear Wicca and immediately think, "They cast spells and talk to the dead and that's wrong!" or some of the more extreme versions are "They use magic and it only works because Satan makes it work to turn them away from God." (I only know this because I practiced Wicca for a few years and heard it constantly from my Christian friends)

I believe that Jesus did not die to pass on a message or teach us a lesson. He died to save those who believe in him and follow him. He taught in his time with us to love one another definately, but also to keep company that believes in him and God so that we don't stray from him and end up losing our faith just because it's say, "not the cool thing to be Christian and none of my friends are."


I don't feel that you are being close-minded. I do have an issue when everyone brings up the OT when saying that magic use is wrong since many Christians tell me that Jesus fulfilled the teachings of the OT and therefore only the NT need apply. I'd be interested in your belief on that.

Yes, many Christians misunderstand Wicca. It is not about the magic, the spells, to divination or any of that. It is about the spiritual path that we live every day. Yet there are Christians would would persecute me because of my faith. I've even heard a pastor in my town recommend that we go back to burning Witches.

Did not Jesus given his followers but two commandments, to "Love thy God with all thy heart and with all thy mind. And the second is like unto it, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Where in that statement did Jesus say love your neighbor but only if he is straight, or white, or a Republican, or a Christian, or even that he goes to the same church you do. He just said "your neighbor" which I'm pretty sure meant to love everyone. Yet many do seem to pick and chose and say that they can't love so and so because other parts of the Bible tell them differently. So does one ignore the specific instructions of the Messiah and point to something written by a mere mortal hundreds of years earlier?

But I do get off track here. I am not here in the least to attack Christians or Christianity. I believe there are many, many Christ-like people out there who make this world a better place to be. This thread was never meant to be about whose religion is better. I meant it as a place where people who would understand us better could ask questions about Wicca from someone who has practiced it for nearly 20 years and could get an honest answer.

So hopefully we can get back on topic.  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:52 pm
sweatdrop No offense but the hell are you doing in a Christian guild?
 

ChibiLi


TN_Lark

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:13 pm
ChibiLi
sweatdrop No offense but the hell are you doing in a Christian guild?


I post on this one thread here so that I can hopefully help dispell some of the misconceptions about Wicca and enable members of our two faiths to stop fearing and hating each other. I am not here to try to convert anyone nor to teach Wicca to anyone. But there are lots of people who have some really off the mark ideas as to what Wicca is about and because of that they are afraid of us. And out of fear are intolerance and hatred bred. It's time we stopped hating each other and learned to live together in peace.  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:49 pm
TN_Lark
pnai_pride777
did you study:
white magic
black magic
or natural magic

[[one of my best friends actaully used to be a wicca so she told me about different types of magic]]


Your friend has a common misunderstanding of the nature of magic.

Magic has no color, it is not black or white, or grey, or purple-spotted. Magic is simply a form of energy which each of us holds inside of them and which is present in all of the creation around us. And all magic is natural. It is something that anyone can do, if they are taught how.

Think of it like electricity. Electricity is simply a form of energy. It can warm and light your home. Or it can be used to kill. Does that make electricity black or white? No. Same thing with magic. Magic just is. What determines how the magic is used is the intent of the person using it.

Wiccans do use magic as part of our religion. Perhaps the best way to explain it is this.... When a Christian wishes to have the universe change shape to meet their desires they pray to God, and if God is willing He makes the change in the Universe, grants the favor, etc that the Christian asked for. Wiccans believe that our Gods have given us the power to directly change the shape of things by ourselves..that is what magic is.

As a Wiccan I did train in how to use magic, and I have used it on many occasions. I use magic every time I cast a circle for ritual, or charge my tools. I also occasionally engage in spellwork for things such as healing or protection. I have never engaged in any baneful magic such as hexes or curses. Do I know how to do that? Of course, once you know how magic works you can use it both to hex or to heal..because the process is all the same. But Wiccans also operate under an ethical code which advises that we try to live our lives doing as little harm as posible to any around us. And I hold to the belief that I should never do anything magically I would not be willing to do mundanely. So if I would not attack someone physically, why would it be right to do it magically.

-Lark-


i think she meant Dark Magic, Light Magic and Natual Magic, though all three tend to feel like electricity coursing through you.... it was scary the first time and one thing i definitly DONT miss about being a wicca, then a witch. *shudders* also i didnt leave the coven on the best terms. what do you do in your coven to maintain your leadership, and how are such things decided?  

promised_child


promised_child

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:53 pm
TN_Lark
ChibiLi
sweatdrop No offense but the hell are you doing in a Christian guild?


I post on this one thread here so that I can hopefully help dispell some of the misconceptions about Wicca and enable members of our two faiths to stop fearing and hating each other. I am not here to try to convert anyone nor to teach Wicca to anyone. But there are lots of people who have some really off the mark ideas as to what Wicca is about and because of that they are afraid of us. And out of fear are intolerance and hatred bred. It's time we stopped hating each other and learned to live together in peace.


yes it is, Christ died and rose to build the bridge between God and man. And hate sorta leaves people out of the love....  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:24 pm
promised_child
what do you do in your coven to maintain your leadership, and how are such things decided?


In the Tradition of Wicca within which I trained and worked one has to be a Third Degree Initiate to form a coven. A Degree is something which is awarded by the coven when an individual has shown that they have mastered a specific set of knowledge and skills. For Third Degree one not only has to have magical knowledge but also be skilled in counseling, teaching, group leadership, and interpersonal work.

My husband and I formed our coven of Tangled Moon at Yule 1996 and we have had many people come to us over the years to study and worship with us. I guess they chose to stay with us rather than seek out a different group and different leaders because we are truly helping them meet their spiritual goals. I am, in many respects, not only their High Priestess, but also their "Mom". I'm the one they call when there is a crisis, or they are down in the dumps, or they are having problems.

We have also raised two Initiates to Third Degree who have gone off to found their own groups where they will serve as High Priestess.

Not all groups chose their leaders this way. Some of them rotate leadership on a regular basis. So this month Suzie may be the leader, and next month Anthony may act as High Priest.

There is no one right way, only the way thtt is right for the particular group. But it isn't an easy job. It takes a lot of time, work, and effort to be a group leader. You have to have a genuine calling to the priesthood to do it successfully. And if you don't meet the needs of the group or if you don't set an example they can look up to, people will vote with their feet and soon there will be no group at all.

-Lark-  

TN_Lark

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promised_child

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:16 pm
TN_Lark
promised_child
what do you do in your coven to maintain your leadership, and how are such things decided?


In the Tradition of Wicca within which I trained and worked one has to be a Third Degree Initiate to form a coven. A Degree is something which is awarded by the coven when an individual has shown that they have mastered a specific set of knowledge and skills. For Third Degree one not only has to have magical knowledge but also be skilled in counseling, teaching, group leadership, and interpersonal work.

My husband and I formed our coven of Tangled Moon at Yule 1996 and we have had many people come to us over the years to study and worship with us. I guess they chose to stay with us rather than seek out a different group and different leaders because we are truly helping them meet their spiritual goals. I am, in many respects, not only their High Priestess, but also their "Mom". I'm the one they call when there is a crisis, or they are down in the dumps, or they are having problems.

We have also raised two Initiates to Third Degree who have gone off to found their own groups where they will serve as High Priestess.

Not all groups chose their leaders this way. Some of them rotate leadership on a regular basis. So this month Suzie may be the leader, and next month Anthony may act as High Priest.

There is no one right way, only the way thtt is right for the particular group. But it isn't an easy job. It takes a lot of time, work, and effort to be a group leader. You have to have a genuine calling to the priesthood to do it successfully. And if you don't meet the needs of the group or if you don't set an example they can look up to, people will vote with their feet and soon there will be no group at all.

-Lark-


interesting.... my wiccan coven boredme and my friend- but the high priest had a violent streak and couldnt handle that i was physically stronger that he was. it wasnt much different when we moved to straight up witchcraft though- they were just meaner. did you ever ask anyone about the pantamiters of the Christian Faith (not religeon)?  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:04 am
promised_child

interesting.... my wiccan coven boredme and my friend- but the high priest had a violent streak and couldnt handle that i was physically stronger that he was. it wasnt much different when we moved to straight up witchcraft though- they were just meaner. did you ever ask anyone about the pantamiters of the Christian Faith (not religeon)?


I'm sorry that your experience with your High Priest was so negative. It's unfortunate that sometimes people set themsevles up in positions such as that for all the wrong reasons. In this case it sounds as though he was far more interested in the power the position gave him and not in spiritual service to his community. This is nothing which is simply a Wiccan phenomenon, it happens in all religions. And it leaves a bad taste in the mouth whenever it does.

I am quite familiar with both the beliefs of Christianity and the religion as well. I was raised as a Christian and studied the Bible and Christianity extensively in school. I still read books about the early Christian church and how choices were made in the first centuries of Christianity as to what was to be believed and what was to go into the Bible. It interests me because there are paralells to be seen in the development of Wicca into a belief system.

-Lark-  

TN_Lark

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leamhan

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:58 am
I have a question.

Does it trouble you that the founder of your religion used inaccurate facts to base that religion on?

I am, of course, referring to the fact that Gerald Gardner believed that there was an organised witch cult in early modern Europe, which was the subject of persecution in the witch craze. This particular belief has since been proven false.

Is that a problem for you? Likewise, is it fulfilling to be part of a religion which melds different traditions (folklore, incorrect history, ceremonial magic) together, rather than one of the constituent parts?

On the OT thing - the Bible does condemn witchcraft, Christians may not practise it and that isn't something that is going to change. It is possible to be perfectly polite and pleasant to a Wiccan or pagan even though that remains the case.  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:33 pm
TN_Lark
promised_child

interesting.... my wiccan coven boredme and my friend- but the high priest had a violent streak and couldnt handle that i was physically stronger that he was. it wasnt much different when we moved to straight up witchcraft though- they were just meaner. did you ever ask anyone about the pantamiters of the Christian Faith (not religeon)?


I'm sorry that your experience with your High Priest was so negative. It's unfortunate that sometimes people set themsevles up in positions such as that for all the wrong reasons. In this case it sounds as though he was far more interested in the power the position gave him and not in spiritual service to his community. This is nothing which is simply a Wiccan phenomenon, it happens in all religions. And it leaves a bad taste in the mouth whenever it does.

I am quite familiar with both the beliefs of Christianity and the religion as well. I was raised as a Christian and studied the Bible and Christianity extensively in school. I still read books about the early Christian church and how choices were made in the first centuries of Christianity as to what was to be believed and what was to go into the Bible. It interests me because there are paralells to be seen in the development of Wicca into a belief system.

-Lark-


i have more scars from the witches, than the wiccans- but a couple from the wiccans.... not a fun time, i didnt care cuz i wanted to die anyway- Christ took my pain and helped me deal, not something the "goddesses" could or would do. i am contented in my Faith, more than that i am more happy these past 5 years than i ever was in my entire life.  

promised_child


TN_Lark

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:04 am
promised_child

i have more scars from the witches, than the wiccans- but a couple from the wiccans.... not a fun time, i didnt care cuz i wanted to die anyway- Christ took my pain and helped me deal, not something the "goddesses" could or would do. i am contented in my Faith, more than that i am more happy these past 5 years than i ever was in my entire life.


I am glad that you found a spiritual path that helped heal you and gives you joy.

Wicca did the same for me. I found in the arms of my Goddess all the healing that I never found in the faith of my birth.

What is truly wonderful is that we each found our way home..even though are homes are not the same.

-Lark-  
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