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| Was the Buddha’s loving devotion and devout sharing of the way part of the realization of enlightenment? |
| Yes |
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88% |
[ 8 ] |
| No |
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11% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:03 am
In my research of Buddhism, I have found some differences between Mahayana and Theravada doctrines, but one in particular puzzles me. In Mahayana Buddhism, it is as if the Buddha’s loving devotion and devout sharing of the way were part of the realization of enlightenment; i.e. if he had not shown a sense of compassionate oneness with others, that would prove that he was still caught in the web of self-seeking tanha. Whereas in Theravada Buddhism, the Buddha could have easily passed into nirvana without telling anyone of the way, and he would still be enlightened… I tend to believe in the former rather than the latter, because I just want to believe in the love of every person…
Thoughts…
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:18 pm
One possible interpretation is that Siddhartha could attain Nirvana, become enlightened, without assisting others, but that he would not have been the Buddha. This is probably called the "Theravada interpretation" somewhere, in the sense that attaining enlightenment is separate from becoming a Buddha or Boddhisattva.
The other interpretation (again, probably the "Mahayana interpretation) is that the enlightened wisdom that one could attain on the arhat path is not true wisdom, but an expedient device. It is not wrong, but without the compassion of assisting others into Nirvana, it is not a complete enlightenment.
I've heard this question phrased as the "difference between enlightenment and Nirvana." The Mahayana tradition focuses on Enlightenment, and hence compassion, while the Theravada tradition focuses on Nirvana, and hence wisdom.
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:59 am
The issue lies in that theravada only views him as an Arhat - therefore the bodhisattva way is not needed in Theravada.
In Mahayana, the bodhisattva way is crucial.
This does not mean, however, they Theravada denies the existence of Bodhisattvas - it i s just reserved for those who become Supreme Nirmanakayas like shakyamuni.
I side with Mahayana.
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Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:17 pm
For me it seems as though enlightnment and boundless compassion for all beings makes a lot more sense to me, But I'm not Buddhist.
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:12 am
I also side with the Mahayana interpretation that boundless compassion and the need to spread the Dharma were necessary prerequisites for Shakyamuni's attainment of perfect enlightenment. [Its generally said by the Mahayanists that the Buddha had served as a bodhisattva for a prolonged period of time prior to rebirth as Gautama and the vigil under the Bodhi Tree].
However, I admit that almost everything I've learned of the Theravada views has come from Mahayana sources...Are there any well-versed Theravadans here who can add their views?
Eliminating the accounts of past lives from the tale (which we of course cannot objectively find evidence for outside similar scriptures), I'm open to the argument that boundless compassion and diligent teaching is a characteristic of a Buddha (and likely true Arhat) upon enlightenment (and is perhaps not a prereq for attaining enlightenment). However, there are few, if any, emotional states outside unconditional compassion that is capable of breaking the mental bonds of the "Self" while causing the mind to reach out in all directions to suffering sentient beings...and a principle reason for Gautama's leaving the royal court was his feelings of compassion for all the sentient beings around him...
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:47 pm
I agree with the Mahayana, but I think that the reason that the Theravada says that is because he doesn't HAVE to, but as Buddha, you should WANT to, despite the non-requirement.
Hope I'm not dittoing someone.
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Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:29 pm
Yukio-Vil I agree with the Mahayana, but I think that the reason that the Theravada says that is because he doesn't HAVE to, but as Buddha, you should WANT to, despite the non-requirement. Hope I'm not dittoing someone. But a Buddha would not "Want" anything... neutral
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:22 am
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:14 am
Antron3001 Yukio-Vil I agree with the Mahayana, but I think that the reason that the Theravada says that is because he doesn't HAVE to, but as Buddha, you should WANT to, despite the non-requirement. Hope I'm not dittoing someone. But a Buddha would not "Want" anything... neutral A Buddha would not "want" anything out of selfish desires and with mental/emotional attachment. However, since the attainment of Buddhahood is widely thought to entail boundless compassion for suffering beings as well as "transcendent" knowledge of those sufferings (past, present, and future within individual consciousness-streams), Buddhas are thought to actively seek the spiritual betterment of unenlightened beings. In Mahayana Buddhism this "function" or "activity" of a Buddha is generally held to be an automatic, natural outgrowth of the Enlightened state.
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:29 am
In contrast to Proxy's (no doubt adequate) answer to the question:
The Buddha is One with the Dharma. Balance with the Dharma requires the nonattachment of all sentient beings, given their interconnected nature. One's own enlightenment only arises through the preaching of the Dharma to other sentient beings in all realms. At least, this is part of the Mahayana interpretation.
From this view, the Buddha is a not-Self, simply a temporal manifestation of the pure Dharma; it's the Dharma that "wants" to bring everything in accordance with the Dharma. (I apologize for that phrasing, but it seemed like a good analogy sweatdrop ).
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:24 pm
Swordmaster Dragon In contrast to Proxy's (no doubt adequate) answer to the question: The Buddha is One with the Dharma. Balance with the Dharma requires the nonattachment of all sentient beings, given their interconnected nature. One's own enlightenment only arises through the preaching of the Dharma to other sentient beings in all realms. At least, this is part of the Mahayana interpretation. From this view, the Buddha is a not-Self, simply a temporal manifestation of the pure Dharma; it's the Dharma that "wants" to bring everything in accordance with the Dharma. (I apologize for that phrasing, but it seemed like a good analogy sweatdrop ). Hmmm...it is my understanding that the Dharma (as Law/Teaching/Truth) is what is individually realized during the enlightenment process as well as what is communicated to others to aid their own enlightenment, but is usually held to be distinct from "reality (mind) as it actually is," dharmata. You're probably thinking of the Buddha as Dharma-kaya, the Body of Truth, which I understand is more or less equivalent to dharmata, Suchness (Tathata), and Emptiness (Shunyata). According to the Mahayana Three Bodies (Trikaya) doctrine, the physical manifestation of the Buddha is Nirmana-kaya or "Body of Transformation" behind which there is the power of the Sambhoga-kaya or "Body of Bliss." Of course, there is also talk of lowly dharmas* ("phenomena") in the literature, evidently to throw us all in a loop xp *dharma + tathata = dharmata as "suchness of phenomena"??? It is hard to imagine that enlightenment, which fundamentally entails discovery and understanding, can only arise through preaching to others. That's kind of like learning from teaching about something one doesn't understand; self-knowledge should come before the imparting of knowledge to others. However, my understanding is that "after a certain point of achievement on the path to enlightenment, one may have to advance further by aiding others." Of course, such altruism may be a natural consequence of partially-realizing the Dharma.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:11 pm
Antron3001 Yukio-Vil I agree with the Mahayana, but I think that the reason that the Theravada says that is because he doesn't HAVE to, but as Buddha, you should WANT to, despite the non-requirement. Hope I'm not dittoing someone. But a Buddha would not "Want" anything... neutral If you take the word 'want' and you think about it, there are several different meanings based on context. If you want a new action figure or computer or your favorite food, is that not different than wanting to teach or share? One does not have to do anything, however, needs do arise, and naturally one would want to fulfill such needs, or desire them to be filled. Would it not be in a buddha's compassion to try and fill the want and need of the removal of suffering in all sentient beings? Conclusivly, regardless of whatever history indoctrinated or recorded, should it not be a buddha's want to teach others a path to enlightenment? Should it not be a buddha's and teacher's want to fulfill that need to end suffering? Scriptures and history aside, should it not be what happened over what will happen? Should the future be drowned by the past? "Do not try and follow in the footsteps of the great, seek what they saught". 'Tis to my doubt that Gautama buddha would see it fit for us to squabble about what we think he did, I would suggest that we look to ourselves for the answer of what to do. Is that not what the buddhist teachings are? The search for self by self?
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