Women of power in the house of YHWH

[rockmanx]

Many people don't believe a woman has the right to preach or hold an office in the church other then a teacher. This has come about from people not undestanding certain scriptures by Paul and inoring scrputer with women in other parts of the bibile. Let's take a look at one of those scriptures that are miss understood.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 11

1. Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7. For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.
11. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
13. Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14. Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15. But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Many take this as women can not rule over men but that is not hat this scriptre is talking about. Verse ten make it clear that the covering is for the woman's protection aginst he angels. Se back in Genesis 6, the sons of God which are the angels came done and took human women as wife and had children by them. Golith happens to be one of these children but from a different sect of angels with women. This scripture is talking about that a man and a woman are made for each other. Not a man and a man or an angel and a woman or a man and a beast, remember this is sexualy.

Now if a woman is a christian, then her covering is Jesus. Jesus is her spiritual husband who covers her head. So if a woman stands up a preaches in the house of or Father YHWH, and she is covered by Jesus, then she is covered.

Now let us take a look at another one that is miss used.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Now many would go and say that this is strieght forward that women can not speak in church. True, if you remove the rest of the chapter and don't look at the greek. But that is not the case here. Paul was addressing this church for hold service in choas where no one can learn. Early in the chapter he dress then men down for having to many talking at once. Here in this set of verses, in the greek, Paul is addressing the women about chitter chatter while some one is talking. This has nothing to do with women preaching, but has to to with talking while the speaker is speaking. If you are talking to someone while the tearcher is bring for the word, the person who may need the word might not be able to hear it becuase of the chatter.

Some church donot listen to this scripture so while the precher is bring forth the message, you have poeple chouting and running up and down the asile during this time keep other from hearing. This here is a spirit of confusion and is of the devil. Now there is nothing wrong with saying "amen" or like words during certain parts of the service. Nor is there anything wrong in answering when the speaker ques you to answer.

Now let's take a look at women in power, nut first let's read over how the church'es goverement is to be set up.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ok the first woman we are going to look at is Deborah. We will find her in the OT of the bible.

Quote:

Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.

Now if you recall, a prophet is sceond in command of the church, so to speak. Here we have a woman who is both a prophetess and a judge. Side note, her husband is also a prophet. Mainy of the children of Israel went to Deborah for help and advise and she earn the title "The mother of Israel" becuase she was a woman the held YHWH's commandments. So women, you can not only hold a job in town, but you can also hold an office in the church as well.

Ok let's speed up to the NT with Jesus and the woman of Samaria.

Quote:

John 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.

John 4:27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?
28. The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29. Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
30. Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.

That is right, after Jesus revealed unto her salvation is on its way, so she went into the city and preached unto the men. "Now wait a minute Rock, it says she told or spoke to the men not preach." Which is true but true preaching is nothing more then spreading the good news, which is what she was doing.

Now some are saying, ok a woman can hold an office and a woman can preach, but a woman can not run a church. Not so. There is a woman in the bible who not only was in holds an office of a church, but it was a deacon and Paul told the men to go and help her. Her name is Phebe.

Quote:

Romans 16

1. I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2. That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

So now you'll say "Ok I see this woman works in a church but where is it that says she was a deacon" To find that we have to go back to the greek. The world "servent" in verse one is "diakonos" in the greek which translates to our word deacon. It is the same word find in 1Timothy 3 where we see the requiments of a deacon and is the same word for minister through out the book of Ephesians.

So recap, we've seen a woman holding the office of a prophet and a judge, we seen a woman out preaching unto men, and we see a woman deacon who had some men under her. So the next time some one says a woman can not preach or hold an office in the church, show them these scripture. Also, the word Preacher in the book of Ecclesiastes 1:1 is "qoheleth" which is hebrew for a female preacher.  

[torrinne]

THANK YOU!!!

That is extremely deserved, and I'm glad you went to the trouble to work all that out. biggrin  

[[GWW Guild Mule]]

We actually have female officers in our church. Alot of that was discussed as we where "electing" for our new preacher, and a few women where close to getting that job, a man one, of course, but our church understands some of this, the man was just more suited because he was a preacher from another church, so he had the background and stuff. <3  

[rockmanx]

torrinne- You Welcome.

Kansas Kandi-That is the fun part about having a preacher is wondering is wonder who is good for the job. Best thing to do is always hold the bible to there life and see if they line up. Now becuase you have a new preacher does not mean others can't preach. Least in my church, it is not uncommon for our Pastor's wife to get up and preach once in a while. We also have other member that will get up and preach every now and then. It all depend on who our Father has called to give the message that day. As my pastor says, there are things he would like to preacher about but God has not given it to him, but there are other who he has given that message to preach.
 

[ElenaMason]

you seem to have forgetton some KEY verses to say otherwise.

1 Timothy 2

11: Let a woman QUIETLY recieve instruction with ENTIRE submissiveness.

12: But I do NOT ALLOW a woman to teach OR excercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

13: For it wsa Adam who was first created, and THEN Eve.

14: And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quiet deceived, fell into transgression.

15: But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Yes as you mentioned also, women, let alone anyone else in the congregation should be silent during a service. but these verses speak of women having authority over men.

However, Paul here based his view of male/female relationships in the church on the account of Creation recorded in Genesis 2. He made no reference whatever to the so-called "curse" of Genesis 3:16. Rather, the roles Paul spelled out here are a product of God's fundamental design wherein Adam was formed first, then Eve.

MORE is involved here than mere chronological priority. Paul saw the priority in time as indicative of the leadership given to the male, to which the woman, the "helper suitable for him" should respond.

Although this was a matter of opinion of one person, I entirely agree with Paul. there was a reason why man was made first. And as i said in one of the other threads regarding God's appearance and looks, we call him the FATHER for a reason. He is most likely of a male image, especially since Adam was created first.  

[rockmanx]

At the time, many women that where preaching was draged out of some church with the privates showing. Paul was letting them know that he had no problem with women not wanting to preach for their own safty and humilaty.

The last three verses, specially 15, is talking about Jesus. It was through Eve's own womb that the savior will come for us all. A little Ironic that the one who was blindside and fail, would be the mother of the blood line in which Jesus would come and remove the blinders and raise up.  

[Ace_Of_Swords]

Thank you, finally someone understands. I love you!! blaugh  

[rockmanx]

A lot of people don't look into why he said somethings. Take 1 Timothy 2:9 for an example.

1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

"Shamefacedness" is an old angleo-saxton word which means modesty, and "sobriety" means "sensibleness," to use commond sense.

But what does it mean by "broided hair." At this time, lady who sold themselve sexual spent all day broiding their hair. This was a sign that you did not do any work. Paul was say look nice but don't spen all day trying to look nice or you won't get any work done. The"gold, or pearls, or costly array" was saying, don't go to church to show off you money. This is also good for men as well. We don't need to be gooffing off all day and show off our money at church.  

[ElenaMason]

*sighs* oi....well believe what you will. i still dont agree razz  

[reddy4nething]

SaintXenos

you seem to have forgetton some KEY verses to say otherwise.

1 Timothy 2

11: Let a woman QUIETLY recieve instruction with ENTIRE submissiveness.

12: But I do NOT ALLOW a woman to teach OR excercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

13: For it wsa Adam who was first created, and THEN Eve.

14: And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quiet deceived, fell into transgression.

15: But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Yes as you mentioned also, women, let alone anyone else in the congregation should be silent during a service. but these verses speak of women having authority over men.

However, Paul here based his view of male/female relationships in the church on the account of Creation recorded in Genesis 2. He made no reference whatever to the so-called "curse" of Genesis 3:16. Rather, the roles Paul spelled out here are a product of God's fundamental design wherein Adam was formed first, then Eve.

MORE is involved here than mere chronological priority. Paul saw the priority in time as indicative of the leadership given to the male, to which the woman, the "helper suitable for him" should respond.

Although this was a matter of opinion of one person, I entirely agree with Paul. there was a reason why man was made first. And as i said in one of the other threads regarding God's appearance and looks, we call him the FATHER for a reason. He is most likely of a male image, especially since Adam was created first.

I agree with her.....but God also wants men to respect us women.......u should never forget that......no man needs to forget that  

[rockmanx]

SaintXenos

*sighs* oi....well believe what you will. i still dont agree razz

Then why did Paul tell people to go help Phebe? A woman in an office of a church. Like I said, the word servent in Romans 16:1 is diakonos which translates to deacon, minister, and servant.

What about Deborah, a woman called by our Father and both men and women listen to her?

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Priscilla's name come before her husband, and they only time this is ever done is if the Woman is a higher rank then the man.

What about Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron. Another woman that held an office in the hous of our Father. And there is Anna, a prophetess.

What about Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James when the angel came unto them and told those two to tell the disciples. The women where shown the truth before the men and went to preach(tell the good news) to them.

If women are not to hold office or rule over men, then why are there so many women ordain by God in places of power?

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

I'm sticking to what Our Father says, not some man's idea or tradition. He as and He will use women to preach, teach and prophesy His word. If you say no they can't then your telling God you know better, becuase He has not change one bit.

Looking is Ecclesiastes 1:1. The word for precher in the hebrew is qoheleth which is a female preacher or female assembler. It is not qahal which is a male precher. The facts are there, it is your choice to believe in or Father YHWH's word. Or you can do like most people and pick and choose what you want to believe instead of the truth.  

[ElenaMason]

rockmanx

SaintXenos

*sighs* oi....well believe what you will. i still dont agree razz

Then why did Paul tell people to go help Phebe? A woman in an office of a church. Like I said, the word servent in Romans 16:1 is diakonos which translates to deacon, minister, and servant.

What about Deborah, a woman called by our Father and both men and women listen to her?

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Priscilla's name come before her husband, and they only time this is ever done is if the Woman is a higher rank then the man.

What about Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron. Another woman that held an office in the hous of our Father. And there is Anna, a prophetess.

What about Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James when the angel came unto them and told those two to tell the disciples. The women where shown the truth before the men and went to preach(tell the good news) to them.

If women are not to hold office or rule over men, then why are there so many women ordain by God in places of power?

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

I'm sticking to what Our Father says, not some man's idea or tradition. He as and He will use women to preach, teach and prophesy His word. If you say no they can't then your telling God you know better, becuase He has not change one bit.

Looking is Ecclesiastes 1:1. The word for precher in the hebrew is qoheleth which is a female preacher or female assembler. It is not qahal which is a male precher. The facts are there, it is your choice to believe in or Father YHWH's word. Or you can do like most people and pick and choose what you want to believe instead of the truth.

well the truth is whatever i see in the bible. in all honest to god i dont see why it would be that harmful to let a woman become a preacher (in a church that is) i mean of course there are public female preachers...

well heck im one. im mean to preach is basically the acts of teaching the bible to the public isnt it? thats what i do in these forums as do others when voicing biblical opinions. *shrugs* either way it doesnt "trully" matter to me who's preaching as long as they are preaching the true word of God. heart  

[reddy4nething]

rockmanx

SaintXenos

*sighs* oi....well believe what you will. i still dont agree razz

Then why did Paul tell people to go help Phebe? A woman in an office of a church. Like I said, the word servent in Romans 16:1 is diakonos which translates to deacon, minister, and servant.

What about Deborah, a woman called by our Father and both men and women listen to her?

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Priscilla's name come before her husband, and they only time this is ever done is if the Woman is a higher rank then the man.

What about Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron. Another woman that held an office in the hous of our Father. And there is Anna, a prophetess.

What about Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James when the angel came unto them and told those two to tell the disciples. The women where shown the truth before the men and went to preach(tell the good news) to them.

If women are not to hold office or rule over men, then why are there so many women ordain by God in places of power?

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

I'm sticking to what Our Father says, not some man's idea or tradition. He as and He will use women to preach, teach and prophesy His word. If you say no they can't then your telling God you know better, becuase He has not change one bit.

Looking is Ecclesiastes 1:1. The word for precher in the hebrew is qoheleth which is a female preacher or female assembler. It is not qahal which is a male precher. The facts are there, it is your choice to believe in or Father YHWH's word. Or you can do like most people and pick and choose what you want to believe instead of the truth.

look....God says that a man should respect women.......but that doesnt mean were supposed to lead the church......it says a MAN is the head the head of the home and is supposed to be the head of the church.....i believe that its alright 4 a woman 2 be a missionary.....but not 2 head the church  

[ElenaMason]

reddy4nething

rockmanx

SaintXenos

*sighs* oi....well believe what you will. i still dont agree razz

Then why did Paul tell people to go help Phebe? A woman in an office of a church. Like I said, the word servent in Romans 16:1 is diakonos which translates to deacon, minister, and servant.

What about Deborah, a woman called by our Father and both men and women listen to her?

Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Priscilla's name come before her husband, and they only time this is ever done is if the Woman is a higher rank then the man.

What about Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron. Another woman that held an office in the hous of our Father. And there is Anna, a prophetess.

What about Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James when the angel came unto them and told those two to tell the disciples. The women where shown the truth before the men and went to preach(tell the good news) to them.

If women are not to hold office or rule over men, then why are there so many women ordain by God in places of power?

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

I'm sticking to what Our Father says, not some man's idea or tradition. He as and He will use women to preach, teach and prophesy His word. If you say no they can't then your telling God you know better, becuase He has not change one bit.

Looking is Ecclesiastes 1:1. The word for precher in the hebrew is qoheleth which is a female preacher or female assembler. It is not qahal which is a male precher. The facts are there, it is your choice to believe in or Father YHWH's word. Or you can do like most people and pick and choose what you want to believe instead of the truth.

look....God says that a man should respect women.......but that doesnt mean were supposed to lead the church......it says a MAN is the head the head of the home and is supposed to be the head of the church.....i believe that its alright 4 a woman 2 be a missionary.....but not 2 head the church

entirely true smile