Masculinity: What Does It Mean to You?

[Lord Jeremy of Waffle]

Masculinity takes the form of confidence for me. Someone who is really masculine doesn't walk around, showing off and basking in the adulation of others. He's the quiet guy, the one who does what he wants and doesn't worry about what anyone else thinks about him.  

[zZ-Zain-Zz]

My definition of a man is to be respectful and standing your ground. And defending ones you love. And love who he is. And yeah, he should do anything he wants.  

[Esiris]

Anonemuss385

Masculinity takes the form of confidence for me. Someone who is really masculine doesn't walk around, showing off and basking in the adulation of others. He's the quiet guy, the one who does what he wants and doesn't worry about what anyone else thinks about him.

I'm a confident person- so I have to be a man?
Are Hillary Clinton, the Queen of England and Empress Dowager Cixi all men? To me- that seems really sexist.

zZ-Zain-Zz

My definition of a man is to be respectful and standing your ground. And defending ones you love. And love who he is. And yeah, he should do anything he wants.

Women can be respectful and stand their ground and defend the people they love while loving themselves- again, I think these definitions of masculinity are really sexist and play into cis-hetero stereotypes. (I'm not even going to touch how people doing whatever they want can sometimes include abuse and other horrible things)  

[Saint Sims]

Esiris

While it's perfectly alright for your to disagree with their views, Esiris, you can't blame them for their beliefs. After all, this thread is asking how we as individuals view masculinity.

Naturally, our views have implications but what both of them are saying in no way is meant to demean women.

I get your message, however, and understand where your disagreements lay, but neither of them are wrong for their definitions.

 

[Esiris]

Der Fluch des Pharao

Esiris

While it's perfectly alright for your to disagree with their views, Esiris, you can't blame them for their beliefs. After all, this thread is asking how we as individuals view masculinity.

Naturally, our views have implications but what both of them are saying in no way is meant to demean women.

I get your message, however, and understand where your disagreements lay, but neither of them are wrong for their definitions.

I think that at the same time, if people continue to carry sexist definitions, people further sexism- so by pointing out that something is sexist- people can develop a more tolerant attitude, even if that attitude is aimed at women. cat_3nodding

I also think people aren't blamed- but are responsible for their views. If I hold a view that is bigoted, I may be misinformed, ignorant or not thinking- and that wouldn't make me a bigot. If I hold a view that is bigoted, and I fight tooth and nail to protect that- then I can't say I'm misinformed or not thinking- and that would leave the option that I am actually a bigot!

I guess the only other thing I would say is that I don't see commenting on someone's views as the same thing as blaming or attacking the people who have them- sometimes people just take things too personally afterall. cat_sweatdrop  

[Saint Sims]

Esiris

Understandably so, it is always right to inform others when ignorance is abundant but one mustn't misconstrue the intentions of another.

Of course, however, intentions are so difficultly understood in the form of text.

I mean only to make a point of expressing that any singular definition of masculinity, across the board, is going to have the implications and stigmas imposed by society.

When you suggest that someone's definition of masculinity is sexist you imply, whether by intention or otherwise, that that individual is then sexist in their beliefs.

 

[Esiris]

Der Fluch des Pharao

Esiris

Understandably so, it is always right to inform others when ignorance is abundant but one mustn't misconstrue the intentions of another.

Of course, however, intentions are so difficultly understood in the form of text.

I mean only to make a point of expressing that any singular definition of masculinity, across the board, is going to have the implications and stigmas imposed by society.

When you suggest that someone's definition of masculinity is sexist you imply, whether by intention or otherwise, that that individual is then sexist in their beliefs.

I think that is only really implied if, after explaining how and why that is sexist- people are insist that it isn't- before that it is just the byproduct of privilege. cat_3nodding

When it comes to intentions- I think it is best not to make assumptions or assume the best if people can't tell.  

[Saint Sims]

Esiris

Well put.

 

[Esiris]

Der Fluch des Pharao

Esiris

Well put.

Haha! I just caught myself in a privilege trap as well- I totally defaulted to binary genders to explain sexism!!!

It just goes to show how much it is everywhere.  

[Bao Sanniang]

Masculinity can be being confident enough to show your emotions and be openly soft and caring and sensitive. Like Rosevelt (I think) said... "Speak softly but carry a big stick". The macho and toughness need not be brought out unless the situation forces it.  

[Esiris]

Kunimitsu Kitsune Mask

Masculinity can be being confident enough to show your emotions and be openly soft and caring and sensitive. Like Rosevelt (I think) said... "Speak softly but carry a big stick". The macho and toughness need not be brought out unless the situation forces it.

I think this goes back to the whole why can't people who aren't masculine be tough, or confident?  

[zZ-Zain-Zz]

Esiris

Anonemuss385

Masculinity takes the form of confidence for me. Someone who is really masculine doesn't walk around, showing off and basking in the adulation of others. He's the quiet guy, the one who does what he wants and doesn't worry about what anyone else thinks about him.

I'm a confident person- so I have to be a man?
Are Hillary Clinton, the Queen of England and Empress Dowager Cixi all men? To me- that seems really sexist.

zZ-Zain-Zz

My definition of a man is to be respectful and standing your ground. And defending ones you love. And love who he is. And yeah, he should do anything he wants.

Women can be respectful and stand their ground and defend the people they love while loving themselves- again, I think these definitions of masculinity are really sexist and play into cis-hetero stereotypes. (I'm not even going to touch how people doing whatever they want can sometimes include abuse and other horrible things)

How is that sexist? o.o  

[Esiris]

zZ-Zain-Zz

zZ-Zain-Zz

My definition of a man is to be respectful and standing your ground. And defending ones you love. And love who he is. And yeah, he should do anything he wants.

Women can be respectful and stand their ground and defend the people they love while loving themselves- again, I think these definitions of masculinity are really sexist and play into cis-hetero stereotypes. (I'm not even going to touch how people doing whatever they want can sometimes include abuse and other horrible things)

How is that sexist? o.o

Because it implies that people who protect the ones they love, are respectful and stand their ground and love themselves are masculine- so what does that make the woman who defends her children and stands against racism? What does it make someone who is agendered but fights for lgbt rights and stands up to the school bullies who are picking on their partner? What does it make the person like me, who does all that but isn't even on the gender binary?

When you pick out specific traits to define a gender, you're inversely saying that either people who do that are what you define them to be or that they aren't- and by excluding all the people in my examples above, and many more- it's limiting identity and undermining people who aren't masculine but are still those things.

Edit- there's a flip side too, what about the man who doesn't love himself? What about the man who doesn't stand his ground or in a moment of weakness flees instead of protecting his loved ones- you're also erasing their identity too, but that's an unintended consequence of "male privilege", that isn't outweighed by the advantages the privilege confers.