Born into Sin?

[chessiejo]

i was raised as a Methodist.

John Wesley taught that an infant has a reservoir of grace to protect it until it is old enough to make its own moral decisions, and then it starts to add up plus and minus counters with God.

that always made a lot of sense to me.

i am now a Mennonite and we believe that a loving God would never damn a baby.  

[Lazarus The Resurected]

Lumanny the Space Jew

I heard somewhere that Christians baptise because they believe the baby must be saved because it is technically a sinner as soon as it is born?
What the...? Is this true?

In Judaism this isn't true at all. The Circumcision isn't to save after sin, but just to enter the covenant of Abraham, which is very different. The Talmud does say that when a baby enters the world it does at that moment become succeptible to sin. But it will not actually sin until it is at least a few years old. And it is not held reponsible for its sins until it comes of age at 13.

What do other religions believe about this??

I know that the Catholics baptize early for that reason but alot of other Christians tend to wait. if you look at the Christian idea of "Sin", a fair definition would be: Living by your natural instincts (to Kill, to Feed, to Procreate etc.). Before being indoctrinated with any religion a child will seek to do things of this nature (ok so killing and procreation come later in life.) essentialy "Sinning" in the eyes of the Christian faith.
Do I personaly believe that a baby is born into sin? Yes. But as a Satanist, I tend to see that as a good thing.  

[chessiejo]

while original sin does not seem fair to me, what about inherited diseases or DNA problems?

sickle cell anemia

haemophilia?

we get all kinds of horrible things from our ancestors and just accept it as a fact of life.

isn't that kind of like the same thing?  

[sheshe507]

Lazarus The Resurected

Lumanny the Space Jew

I heard somewhere that Christians baptise because they believe the baby must be saved because it is technically a sinner as soon as it is born?
What the...? Is this true?

In Judaism this isn't true at all. The Circumcision isn't to save after sin, but just to enter the covenant of Abraham, which is very different. The Talmud does say that when a baby enters the world it does at that moment become succeptible to sin. But it will not actually sin until it is at least a few years old. And it is not held reponsible for its sins until it comes of age at 13.

What do other religions believe about this??

I know that the Catholics baptize early for that reason but alot of other Christians tend to wait. if you look at the Christian idea of "Sin", a fair definition would be: Living by your natural instincts (to Kill, to Feed, to Procreate etc.). Before being indoctrinated with any religion a child will seek to do things of this nature (ok so killing and procreation come later in life.) essentialy "Sinning" in the eyes of the Christian faith.
Do I personaly believe that a baby is born into sin? Yes. But as a Satanist, I tend to see that as a good thing.

Speaking frm an Islamic view: we dont babtize babies but we do recite the adhan (Call to prayer) in the ear wen they r born, but not to make them muslim cuz we r all born muslims and parents make u wat u r jews catholics and so on thts wat we believe. and maybe god does this to babies not to damn thm but to save thm frm themselves. cuz god knows maybe if he let thm live thy wuld make bad chioces and sin alot so its better if thy die as children and go str8 to heven ps idk if this is true in my religion i didnt look it up im merely guessing. but the frst part is right 4 sure.  

[sheshe507]

Lumanny the Space Jew

I heard somewhere that Christians baptise because they believe the baby must be saved because it is technically a sinner as soon as it is born?
What the...? Is this true?

In Judaism this isn't true at all. The Circumcision isn't to save after sin, but just to enter the covenant of Abraham, which is very different. The Talmud does say that when a baby enters the world it does at that moment become succeptible to sin. But it will not actually sin until it is at least a few years old. And it is not held reponsible for its sins until it comes of age at 13.

What do other religions believe about this??

Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws.Just as a child’s body submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, its soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is its Lord and Creator. But its parents try to make it follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of its life to resist or oppose its parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold it to account for this religion.When the child matures in youth and clear proofs of the falsehood of its religion are brought to it, the adult must now follow the religion of knowledge and reason. At this point the devils try their best to encourage him to stay as he is or to go further astray. Evils are made pleasing to him and he must now live in the midst of a struggle between his innate pure nature and his desires in order to find the right road.

If he chooses to follow his innate nature, his fitrah, Allah will help him overcome his desires even though it may take most of his life to escape, for many people enter Islam. in their old age.

The Qur'an also points to this phenomenon, where every soul that has been created is asked Who their Lord is, and they testify that it is none other than Allah before they are born into the world.

When your Lord drew forth from the loins of the children of Adam their descendants and made them testify concerning themselves. Saying: Am I not your Lord? They said: “Yes, we testify to it.” (This) in case you say on the Day of Judgement, “We were unaware of this.” Or in case you say: It was our ancestors who made partners (with Allah) and we are only their descendants…[Surah Al-A’raaf 7:172-173] Explaining this verse, the Prophet [SAW] said: When Allah created Aadam [AS] , He took a covenant from him …then He extracted from him all of his descendants who would be born until the end of the world, generation after generation and spread them out in front of Him in order to take a covenant from them.

He spoke to them face to face saying: Am I not your Lord? And they all replied: Yes, we testify to it.

Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He was their Creator and the only true God worthy of worship. He said: That was in case you (mankind) should say on the Day of Resurrection, “Surely we were unaware of all this. We had no idea that You were our God.” [Silsilah al ahadeeth as Saheehah, Narrated by ibn Abbaas, collected by Imaam Ahmad]

This is the reason why people who adopt Islaam are said to revert instead of convert, because they are going back to their original nature -- the one they were naturally created with -- which is automatically aligned with the Universe, its Creator and His Laws; as opposed to simply exchanging one set of beliefs for another.

Reverts to Islaam testify that this inner inclination to search for the Truth, to know and follow it is a major factor in their adopting the faith. It is interesting to see some of the reasons cited by reverts for adopting Islaam:

Islam does not believe that mankind is born inheritantly evil and with a burden of some original sin.


In fact Islam says every child is born totally sinless and pure and if they were to die at any early age they would go to paradise without any accountability.

In Islam there is no concept of punishing a child for the sins of the father and there is no concept of procreation(sex) being a dirty or sinful act.

Islam does not believe we are predisposed to commit sin. On the contrary Islam says we have choice to obey or disobey God. The choice is ours either way equally. To predispose us to lean to one side would not be true freedom of choice.

Islam believes that all disobedience is bad – Pride, lying, cheating etc. but mankind is not guilty until proven innocent. In Islam all are innocent until proven guilty. We are not born guilty of crimes and when we do commit crimes then there is forgiveness through repentance.

The way to atone for the sins is through sincere repentance to God directly without any priest or intercessor. God is the one who loves to forgive the sins of those who cry in repentance. This shows our humility and recognition of the Sovereignty of the Lord.

God is the one who gives strength to mankind to obey his laws and come closer to him. The only thing we need is the sincere heart felt desire and intention.

Accountability is started at the age of puberty – when children start to distinguish between right and wrong and can make choices.

Islam says that God created us and blew his spriit into our souls. If no evil were to tempt a man then he would perfectly recognize who the Lord is and submit in total obedience just as we will the second after we pass away.

Islam is therefore the effort to protect the heart and cultivate the goodness which is in every heart.

The heart is protected from outside corruption by obeying the Laws of God in every sphere of life - 24 hours a day (hadith and sunnah) and by bringing the correct understanding of the oneness of God and perfect Monotheism (as detailed in the Quran).

If we say every child born with sin, that means we are accusing The God Almighty, and saying god is in just(May God Almighty forgive me saying this).

Muslim have faith that God Almighty is most merciful, no one can match with Him. God Almighty can not do injustice to a new born who never saw this world ever, and will be punished for sin some one else committed.
Still there is no sin, because God Almighty forgave Prophet Adam, and Eve.

Have Faith on True God, The Most Merciful and compassionate.