Hmmm. Magic

[ungod ubiquitous]

Magick is spelt with a k. Without it, it would be referring to stage magic, or slight-of-hand. And if white magick is of a demonic origen, then why would Satan let us use it to destroy demons? And if it is of (your) religion that magick comes from the devil, why are people punished by karma if magick is not either white or grey (Not helping or destructive)? And if Wiccans don't have a devil, how can it be from a devil? We do have demons, although it's not part of the religion. There are demons, that I don't doubt. But a ruler of demons? Their are none in wicca.  

[Sinner]

Edward McShrimpy

Magick is spelt with a k. Without it, it would be referring to stage magic, or slight-of-hand. And if white magick is of a demonic origen, then why would Satan let us use it to destroy demons? And if it is of (your) that magick comes from the devil, why are people punished by karma if magick is not either white or grey (Not helping or destructive)? And if Wiccans don't have a devil, how can it be from a devil? We do have demons, although it's not part of the religion. There are demons, that I don't doubt. But a ruler of demons? Their are none in wicca.

xd That's a good one. I almost fell for it for a second there.  

[ungod ubiquitous]

What's a good one? That's all true.  

[Sinner]

Edward McShrimpy

What's a good one? That's all true.

lol Pure gold.  

[ungod ubiquitous]

Guild Front Page

Just remember to have respect, and that goes for all members.

Ever read the front page? I've been having respect for your religion and not saying things like, "Oh that's funny." So please have respect for mine.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Edward McShrimpy

Ever read the front page? I've been having respect for your religion and not saying things like, "Oh that's funny." So please have respect for mine.

Sinner doesn't have a religion. He's our resident atheist.  

[ungod ubiquitous]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Edward McShrimpy

Karma exists, it is just a form of luck.

there is no such thing as luck. Only probability and Divine Providence.

Quote:

It can exist in Wicca, though. The Three-Fold law is very close to karma.

no, actually it's not. Firstly, karma is based off of a system of equality (you get as much as you gave), and it's results are mostly seen after one continues their cycle of re-incarnation.

Quote:

And yes, I am eclectic.

thought so.

Quote:

And, again, I say, magick can not be from Satan if there is no Satan in our religion.

...
and the world cannot be round if my religion says it is flat. really, regardless of what you, I, or anybody believes, truth is truth, fact is fact, and no matter how much we believe otherwise, it won't change. the fact that you don't believe in a Satan doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Conversely, the fact that I believe in him also does not validate The Satan's existence. Of course, I could be wrong. However, if I were to always

Quote:

And the word magick is not some fluff-bunnies. It is how it is spelt when reffering to the Craft.

you didn't read that page I gave you did you? Well, for your convenience, I'll just quote it.

Wicca: For the rest of us

"Including the "k" differentiates magick you do with directed thought, candles, herbs, oils, stones, and incense, from the magic with a "c" that a magician does on stage strictly for entertainment purposes...To be quite honest, the other reason I prefer to spell magick with a "k" is just because it looks neat, different, & unique." 2

I'm not astounded you do this. I'm just astounded you actually said it.

Aleister Crowley is the one responsible for adding the word "magick" to the occult vocabulary. I've read various theories as to why, including the mystical significance of the numbers 6 (the number of letters in "magick") and 11 (K is the 11th letter of the alphabet), that he wished to distance himself from the magic (no "k") practiced by the Order of the Golden Dawn, and the much spouted insistence that it is to differentiate real magic from stage magic.

You know, I've discussed magic in religion and history classes for years, and not once has anyone ever confused Celtic beliefs with David Copperfield.

magic is not spelled with a 'k'

Quote:

And I'm not talking about banishing. I didn't actually mean destroy them. I meant seal them.

oh well, my first response is still applicable.  

[BDSaint13]

Sinner

Cometh The Inquisitor

Sinner

Whoa, you get to redefine words to fit your belief system?

I'm no more re-defining magic by what I say then I am re-defining gravity by when I say that it is the bends of space-time.

That would be redefining gravity if you were claiming that "something which bends space-time" was the definition of gravity. That's a property, not a definition. You understand the difference, yes?

Here's a refresher course. A circle is defined as "closed plane curve every point of which is equidistant from a fixed point within the curve". An example of a property of a circle is that it has no corners.

In the same manner, your claim that magic is "[insert standard MAGIK R EBUL garbage]" isn't a definition, but a property.

Wow seriously.
You make great arguments, but your presentation automatically turns me off from listening to you

You really want to talk to people saying "This is why your wrong and I why I think your an idiot" Dude seriously, one or two little jabs is fine, but almost every paragraph you are tearing them down it seems like.

If this is how you treat Christians, how do you convince someone else that God exists and loves you?

This is what frustrates me about arguing, seems like so many people do it by mud slinging. You don't straight mud sling, trust me I think your smart, but combining mud slinging with smart arguments only makes you look like a jerk know it all.

But I will always read what you have to say and take it into consideration, just try not to make fun of someone in an argument seriously doesn't helping anything.  

[BDSaint13]

My bad sinner, I didn't know you were an athesist (yeah I think i spelled it wrong)

But seriously, whats your goal here? To convince us there is no God?

Okay thats fine, but why insult us?

What do you feel, do you think that we are fools for following a non existent being? I'm assuming yes.

Well do you just sit and laugh and say "Well they are stupid, let me tease them"
Or are you trying to save us from our folly of being in a silly think like God?

If not the latter then why should anyone listen to you if your not helping them but only insulting them? You need to reevaluate the way you argue if you are to convince anyone that God doesn't exist.  

[Sinner]

Ack, I had forgotten that I neglected to reply to the last post in our little discussion. My apologies.

Cometh The Inquisitor

In Christianity, there are only two 'supernatural' forces: God and The Satan/demons.

What makes you say that? I don't recall any verse in the Bible saying that all supernatural events are the result of God, Satan or demons.

Even assuming that your assertion is true, that still doesn't mean that magic can be defined as "the physical manifestation of demonic/satanic works and/or deeds", as there's no reason why a "magical" occurrence couldn't meet the criteria for being a miracle as well. Why do you assume that the terms cannot both apply?  

[ioioouiouiouio]

Sinner

What makes you say that? I don't recall any verse in the Bible saying that all supernatural events are the result of God, The Satan or demons.

No, it never specifically states that all supernatural events are the work of God, Satan or demons. What it does say, however, is that the only beings that are supernatural are God, The Satan, demons, and Heavenly Host (all the sub-classes of angel). In Jude 1:9 (here), that the Heavenly Host dares not act without the power of the Lord. Therefore, by process of elimination, we get God, The Satan, and demons.

Quote:

Even assuming that your assertion is true, that still doesn't mean that magic can be defined as "the physical manifestation of demonic/satanic works and/or deeds", as there's no reason why a "magical" occurrence couldn't meet the criteria for being a miracle as well. Why do you assume that the terms cannot both apply?

The difference between a miracle and magic is very fine. The complete difference is the origen of the supernatural event. If the event comes from the power of God, then it is a miracle. However, if the event is of The Satan or his minions (demons), then it is magic. What the event is or does has no bearing of the classification of the event itself.  

[Sinner]

Cometh The Inquisitor

No, it never specifically states that all supernatural events are the work of God, Satan or demons. What it does say, however, is that the only beings that are supernatural are God, The Satan, demons, and Heavenly Host (all the sub-classes of angel). In Jude 1:9 (here), that the Heavenly Host dares not act without the power of the Lord. Therefore, by process of elimination, we get God, The Satan, and demons.

But surely there must be some process by which supernatural events can originate from non-supernatural sources, probably thanks to the intervention of a supernatural power.

I'm thinking something along the lines of Moses parting the Red Sea, you know? While that could certainly be interpreted as "Moses beckoning for God to part the Red Sea," it still demonstrates the possibility. What makes you assume that supernatural beings are the only source of supernatural events?

Cometh The Inquisitor

The difference between a miracle and magic is very fine. The complete difference is the origen of the supernatural event. If the event comes from the power of God, then it is a miracle. However, if the event is of The Satan or his minions (demons), then it is magic. What the event is or does has no bearing of the classification of the event itself.

It's fine and good to say that, but I haven't seen anything to back it up. There doesn't seem to be any reason why the terms "miracle" and "magic" can't both be applied to God's actions.  

[Seority]

Cometh The Inquisitor

In Christianity, there are only two 'supernatural' forces: God and The Satan/demons.

Not trying to side with Sinner, but arnt you forgeting angels and us?

Angels are the messengers of God for the most part, while they could also do anything God tells them to do. We can communicate to God and him to us. Doesn't that make us supernatural too? Maybe not totally supernatural, but at least our souls. Thoese are supernatural too right?

I learned this from the book called "Don't Buy the Lie" by Mark Matlock (< he's cool!).

Um, I'm going to look over the book so this post maybe re-edited. Yeah...