The Beginning is the same (In every belief)

[Prismatic Butterflies]

Well, since everyone likes to talk proof and everything, here’s something to REALLY think about. Most people I tell this to, often get pretty stumped and confused along the way…so I’ll try to explain it the best I can. I’m going to start off by saying, even if you DON’T believe in God or that there is a God, you do believe in a God-mentality. How is that? Well…

Think way before everything you know that exists now. Like materials are made from the Earth, babies come from humans, etc. I’m talking about way, way before all that. Think about what you believe. Science says the Earth was created by The Big Bang, or perhaps another scientific theory that goes along with stardust and atoms and what not that just all existed, floating around there in space that by coincidence created everything.

No, don’t stop reading, I’m not finished yet. Let me get to the point…the point is, before everything was created, something HAD to exist in the nothingness. Something was there that just created itself. If there is a beginning to everything, something had to create that beginning. So, what created it all, don’t think about the series of events you believe happened, think what CREATED the first thing that STARTED those events following. Something HAD to create it didn’t it? Now you’re pretty confused right?

Atoms and molecules that make up everything, they were just there? Unintelligent organisms floating around nothing just burst and everything was there? OK well the next time you doubt someone who says they believe in God, or quote “The Magic Man”, think about what you believe, the magic “Atom” or whatever else. Everything had to be created by something, but where is the point where you think back and realize that something had to have always existed? Basically, something existed at the very beginning in nothingness, that was just always there, and created everything else, there is no way around that. You have to keep thinking back, but eventually you'll get pretty stumped.

Just something to think about smile  

[Ricette]

Stumping ot many yes, but, to me, each time i see this argument, however cleverly worded, its still circular. Its still a chicken or the egg or pheonix or the flame sort of question. Why do we have to say there really was a beginning? Because its logical to us and thats how we think the order of all things is? Its a simple answer to the question: the circle has no beginning. Think on that.  

[Prismatic Butterflies]

ok, so maybe to some people there IS no beginning, but you still have to admit that we all just kind of EXIST for no particular reason, we've always just been here, according to your theory. No matter what, something's always existed, that's basically "created" itself, whether you consider it as being created or not, it's always there, we're here aren't we?

That's existing, and as according to you, we just existed, no beginning? Ok, but we're still here. The fact that something exists, it just goes back to just always being there, and things being created thereafter. Basically, in your theory, humans are the creators that were always just there, aka a God(s) mentality.  

[ShideKnight]

So, how is that whole no beginning, no end thing explained anyways? It really sounds kind of weird to me.  

[Ricette]

Well of course it may seem illogical and rather dumb to any human because of the we all just merely exist there is no beginning idea. But thats our mentality is that we logically think that there has to be abegininng. To say or think there is no actual begininng, erspecially one we cannot ever comprehend, its illogicakl and ridiculous. We all obviously have our own views on the beginning of beginning. ANd who says that there really is a reason for us to exist? Wh6y can't we just be arbitrary particles and forms that merely exist?

Shide, I wish I had a good and understandable way to explain the no beginning or end but, the best i can do is that we do not know what came first or what is the last to come, and life itseld as we see it is in itself a circle., Life death and rebirth in some way. To try and fathoim what starts it all, its too far above us to ever know and I doubt there is an answer to it that we can comprehend. The circle has no beginning and no end, it just is and always will be.

I'm sorry its a bad way to explain but the only way I can put it into words.  

[Prismatic Butterflies]

That's all right, it's interesting to say the least, your point of view. I've never heard that before, but my philisophy is: to each their own. If that is what you believe, then who I am to say that you can't? I have my own beliefs, and you have yours.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

In a story, there is a beginning, a middle and an end. Life is like a story to some people. We all have a different story that we must write. Every religion has a different tale of how the world was created. Everyone argues over which tale is right and which is wrong or false. But what we forget to see is that no matter what religion we subscribe to, we are all the same. We have the same ideals/beliefs, we care about people the same, we love the same. All that's different is how we interpret our beliefs and these tales.  

[ShideKnight]

Ricette

Well of course it may seem illogical and rather dumb to any human because of the we all just merely exist there is no beginning idea. But thats our mentality is that we logically think that there has to be abegininng. To say or think there is no actual begininng, erspecially one we cannot ever comprehend, its illogicakl and ridiculous. We all obviously have our own views on the beginning of beginning. ANd who says that there really is a reason for us to exist? Wh6y can't we just be arbitrary particles and forms that merely exist?

Shide, I wish I had a good and understandable way to explain the no beginning or end but, the best i can do is that we do not know what came first or what is the last to come, and life itseld as we see it is in itself a circle., Life death and rebirth in some way. To try and fathoim what starts it all, its too far above us to ever know and I doubt there is an answer to it that we can comprehend. The circle has no beginning and no end, it just is and always will be.

I'm sorry its a bad way to explain but the only way I can put it into words.

It sounds like the real universal in all explanations of creation is mystery, then.  

[divineseraph]

The singularity was known to the Kabbalists and Alchemists as God, or Ein Soph.

This scientific theory is ancient knowledge represented in a way we can express without things we can't prove with physical sciences.

The first STUFF, the first matter, was known as the Prima Materia. This is what all things are made of, and it is closest to God and closest to perfection. This First Stuff was rearranged or corrupted and became all we know today. Scientifically, it's protons neutrons and electrons, primarily separated by charge and number. One stuff springing from a singularity. Sounds like God to me.  

[ShideKnight]

Do they ever question what the singularity is? Properties, expansiveness, etc?  

[divineseraph]

ShideKnight

Do they ever question what the singularity is? Properties, expansiveness, etc?

Dig this action- They say that since it is infinite, and exists under rules we cannot possibly understand due to it's singular, timeless, massless nature, we can't possibly reason what was in the singularity, or it's properties.

That sounds familiar.  

[ShideKnight]

That's kind of like a Buddhists approach to things - since you can't know for sure via logic, don't bother asking.

I understand, that's like how scientists see the big bang. Though I suppose some scientists are even looking back further than that, and maybe finding out a few things... it's kind of interesting.  

[Orizion]

I have a question for the first post. It seems to me that you're saying that God created Himself (third paragraph, 3rd sentence). How is this possible? How could God create Himself?
I believe that because we are asking these questions, it is a sign of intelligence, logic, and reasoning. In order to have an idea of right and wrong, which we humans do, there must be an ultimate, high standard to base our morality on. In other words, it would be impossible to have a universal morality without God.
On another note, about the magic "atom": in the beginning was nothing, not even atoms! Atoms can't come out of nothing!
In the end, I think it's impossible to come up with an explanation for the beginning of the universe without some kind of Creator behind it.  

[divineseraph]

ShideKnight

That's kind of like a Buddhists approach to things - since you can't know for sure via logic, don't bother asking.

I understand, that's like how scientists see the big bang. Though I suppose some scientists are even looking back further than that, and maybe finding out a few things... it's kind of interesting.

Sorry, I may have read you wrong... my response was what science says about the singularity. Alchemists though, do agree- It's nature is infinite, and finite beings cannot possibly understand it. We can make allusions and references, and we can have a concept, but we cannot define it.  

[Prismatic Butterflies]

Orizion

I have a question for the first post. It seems to me that you're saying that God created Himself (third paragraph, 3rd sentence). How is this possible? How could God create Himself?
I believe that because we are asking these questions, it is a sign of intelligence, logic, and reasoning. In order to have an idea of right and wrong, which we humans do, there must be an ultimate, high standard to base our morality on. In other words, it would be impossible to have a universal morality without God.
On another note, about the magic "atom": in the beginning was nothing, not even atoms! Atoms can't come out of nothing!
In the end, I think it's impossible to come up with an explanation for the beginning of the universe without some kind of Creator behind it.

exactly, that was what I was getting at...or tried to anyway lol. To me, God was just always there, something had to always just be there according to what I was saying.