Can you be SURE your going to heaven? Yes!

[tigerflute]

Dark Angel Rai

tigerflute

Dark Angel Rai

tigerflute

divineseraph

Being saved requires works, not Jesus.

This is completely false, it's the other way around. Being saved requires Jesus, not works. Works cannot save you, it is only through believing that Jesus is God and asking him to forgive your sins and be your Lord and Savior that you can be saved. Doing good works is good, but it will not save you. Salvation comes through Jesus.

Being saved requires both faith and works. Without works faith is nothing. And without faith works is nothing. It's a balance like anything else in this world.

Being saved does not require both faith and works. For example, if a person accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, asked Him to forgive their sins, and gave up their life to Him right before they died, they would be saved and go to Heaven. It would not matter that they had not done any good works. God does not want your good works he wants YOU. No amount of good works will ever save you.

That's a common misconception. Just because you accept Jesus doesn't mean you don't sin any more or any less. People let that pride get to their heads and that is what makes them fall from grace in a sense.

I never said that because you accept Jesus it means that you don't sin or sin less(although it is likely that you will sin less). All I'm trying to say here is that God does not want your good works, he wants you to ask for the forgiveness that He freely offers and accept Him as your Lord and Saviour. Good works are good(obviously) but they will not save you. Only being born again can save you. A person could do good works for all of their life and not be saved. They could even also believe that God exists and that Jesus is His Son and that Jesus died for their sins and still not be saved. This person would be missing the fact that they have to give their lives up to God and ask for His forgiveness to be saved.  

[divineseraph]

tigerflute

Dark Angel Rai

tigerflute

Dark Angel Rai

tigerflute

divineseraph

Being saved requires works, not Jesus.

This is completely false, it's the other way around. Being saved requires Jesus, not works. Works cannot save you, it is only through believing that Jesus is God and asking him to forgive your sins and be your Lord and Savior that you can be saved. Doing good works is good, but it will not save you. Salvation comes through Jesus.

Being saved requires both faith and works. Without works faith is nothing. And without faith works is nothing. It's a balance like anything else in this world.

Being saved does not require both faith and works. For example, if a person accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, asked Him to forgive their sins, and gave up their life to Him right before they died, they would be saved and go to Heaven. It would not matter that they had not done any good works. God does not want your good works he wants YOU. No amount of good works will ever save you.

That's a common misconception. Just because you accept Jesus doesn't mean you don't sin any more or any less. People let that pride get to their heads and that is what makes them fall from grace in a sense.

I never said that because you accept Jesus it means that you don't sin or sin less(although it is likely that you will sin less). All I'm trying to say here is that God does not want your good works, he wants you to ask for the forgiveness that He freely offers and accept Him as your Lord and Saviour. Good works are good(obviously) but they will not save you. Only being born again can save you. A person could do good works for all of their life and not be saved. They could even also believe that God exists and that Jesus is His Son and that Jesus died for their sins and still not be saved. This person would be missing the fact that they have to give their lives up to God and ask for His forgiveness to be saved.

No, I'm sorry, you're the one missing the point here. The way to God is through your deeds, not through what name you call Him.  

[tigerflute]

divineseraph

tigerflute

Dark Angel Rai

tigerflute

Dark Angel Rai

Being saved requires both faith and works. Without works faith is nothing. And without faith works is nothing. It's a balance like anything else in this world.

Being saved does not require both faith and works. For example, if a person accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, asked Him to forgive their sins, and gave up their life to Him right before they died, they would be saved and go to Heaven. It would not matter that they had not done any good works. God does not want your good works he wants YOU. No amount of good works will ever save you.

That's a common misconception. Just because you accept Jesus doesn't mean you don't sin any more or any less. People let that pride get to their heads and that is what makes them fall from grace in a sense.

I never said that because you accept Jesus it means that you don't sin or sin less(although it is likely that you will sin less). All I'm trying to say here is that God does not want your good works, he wants you to ask for the forgiveness that He freely offers and accept Him as your Lord and Saviour. Good works are good(obviously) but they will not save you. Only being born again can save you. A person could do good works for all of their life and not be saved. They could even also believe that God exists and that Jesus is His Son and that Jesus died for their sins and still not be saved. This person would be missing the fact that they have to give their lives up to God and ask for His forgiveness to be saved.

No, I'm sorry, you're the one missing the point here. The way to God is through your deeds, not through what name you call Him.

I'm 100% sure that you cannot be saved by your deeds. That's not the way I was saved and that's not what the Bible says. But don't take my word for it, read the Bible. I recommend starting with the New Testament, although it doesn't really matter where you start. As for versions I recommend the NIV(New International Version) or the ESV(English Standard Version) although there are other good versions. I admit that I haven't finished reading the entire Bible yet. I've only read the New Testament and some books in the Old Testament, although I am working on finishing it. If you read the Bible you can see the truth for yourself, instead of having to rely on other people for your information.  

[Scazarith]

divineseraph, you are wrong.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast."

John 14:6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

This says that FAITH in our God and Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved, and it specifically says works are NOT the way. If works were the way then Jesus died in vain because we could all just work really hard to get to heaven. It doesnt work that way. The one and only way to get to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Period.

Secondly, God and Jesus are NOT the same person. Who did Jesus pray to in the garden? Himself?
Who did Jesus cry out to on the cross? Himself?
The list goes on and on and on.

It is painfully obvious that the problem here is that people aren't reading their bibles and don't know what they are talking about. If you read these quotes of the bible and disagree, then your problem is with yourself and with God. Try arguing with Him.  

[divineseraph]

Scazarith

divineseraph, you are wrong.

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast."

John 14:6 I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

This says that FAITH in our God and Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved, and it specifically says works are NOT the way. If works were the way then Jesus died in vain because we could all just work really hard to get to heaven. It doesnt work that way. The one and only way to get to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Period.

Secondly, God and Jesus are NOT the same person. Who did Jesus pray to in the garden? Himself?
Who did Jesus cry out to on the cross? Himself?
The list goes on and on and on.

It is painfully obvious that the problem here is that people aren't reading their bibles and don't know what they are talking about. If you read these quotes of the bible and disagree, then your problem is with yourself and with God. Try arguing with Him.

Then that part is bullshit. The bible has been altered and messed with and translated so much there's not much in it one can trust.

I actually remember a verse that said the exact opposite, it said roughly "don't be content with knowing of Jesus, you have to actually do what a good person does to have a chance at getting into Heaven"

Plus, if God is above Jesus, why not pray to God, and NOT to Jesus, since Jesus is not God, and even Jesus prayed to God, not himself? Why not accept God over Jesus? If they are one, then worshiping God is enough. If they are separate, God is above Jesus and thus God is enough.  

[tigerflute]

Most translations of the Bible are accurate. There is one, I think its The Message but I'm not sure, that was translated in such a way that it sounded like a novel and has some additions to it. When I was in high school, my youth pastor talked about the different versions of the Bible once. He showed us a verse from the Old Testament and a verse from the New Testament in their original Greek and Hebrew and told us what each word meant and talked about grammar. Than we looked at the same verses from different Bibles such as the NIV and ESV. They were worded differently but they all said the same thing. The only one with a problem was The Message if I'm not mistaken, where a word had been added. It was the only version we looked at that had been altered. As for copies of it in the Greek and Hebrew it has been found that these have remained unchanged.
As for the verse that you are talking about, I have never heard of it and I've read the entire New Testament. I think that you are probably remembering something that you heard or read that wasn't in the Bible. Perhaps it was even someone saying that they were quoting the Bible when they were actually not. Or I could be wrong and that could actually be in the Bible, but taken completely out of context. It could have been someone saying it in a conversation who then was told the truth by another person. Or someone writing what someone else was saying and then saying why it's wrong. If you manage to find this in the Bible, look at the context of the verse and you should find that it is then rebuked. It goes against what the Bible says in that it says that you have to do good things to get into Heaven.
God is not above Jesus, they are equal parts of the Trinity(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). They are all God and all the same, yet at the same time separate(which isn't something that we will fully comprehend until we get to Heaven). Therefore it doesn't matter if you pray to Jesus or to God, they are the same person.  

[Scazarith]

First divineseraph, if you're going to provide a biblical argument, then provide scripture.

Secondly, I won't rehash what I've already written because the Word is the truth. Quit lieing to yourself and read your bible.

As to what you said about God being over Jesus: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are clearly depicted as three different entities in the bible. They are all "one" though in the sense that they all have the same goals and plans and they even know eachothers thoughts. They are all "god" but not the same person. This makes them equal, BUT that doesn't mean all of their roles are the same. Gods role is as the Father, the Creator, and the ultimate Judge. Jesus is the Son of God and the ultimate Sacrifice. The Holy Spirit is the comforter (john 14:16) and our counselor here on earth as Christians.

John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth an the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

This says there is no skipping over Jesus. You WILL NOT go to heaven except through Jesus Christ. Period.

Once again, read your bible. I'm serious. Stop arguing until you know what you're talking about. Come in here with something legit before you argue with people.  

[divineseraph]

Scazarith

First divineseraph, if you're going to provide a biblical argument, then provide scripture.

Secondly, I won't rehash what I've already written because the Word is the truth. Quit lieing to yourself and read your bible.

As to what you said about God being over Jesus: God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are clearly depicted as three different entities in the bible. They are all "one" though in the sense that they all have the same goals and plans and they even know eachothers thoughts. They are all "god" but not the same person. This makes them equal, BUT that doesn't mean all of their roles are the same. Gods role is as the Father, the Creator, and the ultimate Judge. Jesus is the Son of God and the ultimate Sacrifice. The Holy Spirit is the comforter (john 14:16) and our counselor here on earth as Christians.

John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth an the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

This says there is no skipping over Jesus. You WILL NOT go to heaven except through Jesus Christ. Period.

Once again, read your bible. I'm serious. Stop arguing until you know what you're talking about. Come in here with something legit before you argue with people.

I do not read the bible. God gave us all the equipment we need. We know it is unjust for good people to burn in hell for simply not knowing Christ's name. I say, go beyond the bible to your soul, the actual connection you have with God.

You can know God and not know Jesus- Jesus was a reminder, not a carven idol.  

[Scazarith]

I didn't know that you didn't read the bible, and I'm less likely to be hard on you because of that fact. But if you're a Christian I recommend that you do read the bible because it is the equipment that God has given us.

Once again, Jesus said: John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth an the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Now, if when you say that you dont read the bible you mean that you dont believe in the bible, then you've rejected Jesus twicefold.

John 1:1-2 says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God."

The word is clearly Jesus and the entire bible is about Jesus. The old testament is pointing to Him, the new testament is about Him and His teachings, and the prophecies(particularly "end times" prophecies such as in revelations) are pointing to His return and rule.

God loves His Son, and woe to the soul that rejects the Son of God.

Please pray about this a little, just think it over a bit. It couldn't hurt anything to consider it.  

[divineseraph]

I reject Jesus as God in favor of God as God. Jesus was a prophet, and a very enlightened prophet.

The Word? That could mean a trillion things. It could be the first word of creation, meaning God was of Himself even at the beginning of time, and aware of Himself even before creation.

I have prayed it over many times, to the tune of "How is it fair for there to be millions of people who act like good human beings, better than some christians, who still fail to get into heaven?" The answer, clearly, is that it is not. It does not matter what we call God, with how many sons or faces or names, but that we are good people in our lives.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

You can accept Jesus and God as much as you want but that doesn't mean your going to heaven. Do you honestly think a murderer has more of a chance of getting to heaven versus a pagan that hasn't done anything wrong in their life besides existing? If the answer is yes, then I feel sorry for you.  

[tigerflute]

Neither of them would go to Heaven unless they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and asked for His forgiveness.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

tigerflute

Neither of them would go to Heaven unless they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and asked for His forgiveness.

But the murderer has already accepted Christ. Does the fact that he killed people matter any more or is he free to do it again and repent again?  

[tigerflute]

Hmm, that's an interesting question. Technically, I suppose that he would be free to repent again. God would forgive him if he truly asked and repented of his sin. This situation doesn't sound at all likely. I would think that if someone truly repented after murdering someone, they wouldn't go and murder someone again. There some sins that people struggle with their entire lives and God forgives them for these sins. However, murder isn't really like this unless someone has a strange desire to kill people(in which case they need some serious help). I think the question we need to ask first is would someone who has accepted Christ and then murders, go and murder someone again after truly repenting from this sin? I hope not. Most Christians never murder once they have accepted Christ(although I think it does happen occasionally and one Biblical example of this would be David murdering Uriah(2 Samuel chapter 11)) and of course most people never murder anyone. Can anyone think of an example in the Bible where someone murders more than once and fully repents of it both times?  

[Scazarith]

Read Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, and after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

This is what it means when it says the Word was with God in the beginning. The bible has all the answers.

I won't debate about Jesus vs God anymore. If you two don't want to believe in Jesus let it be on your own heads.

I do want to point out the misusage of the word "repent" in your post Rai.

Asking for forgiveness and repenting are two different things. The word repent means to turn away from; meaning if you repent from sin (or murder as the hypothetical case may be) then you're saying that you won't do it anymore. We are all human and still make mistakes but repenting implies that we are trying our hardest not to do evil anymore.

Being "free" to kill again is a rediculous statement if someone claims to have repented from it - because murdering someone is an extremely debliberate and concious act.