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Fallpray

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:25 pm
SinfulGuillotine
Genesis of Faith

1. Secular music are considered ungodly, songs that have no mention of love of God. My current perspective on secular music is it's okay to listen to them once in a while, but one must be careful not to get obsessed with them.

The ability to judge music in terms of its effect on one's faith depends on one's spiritual level and maturity. For one, I did consult several ministers before on this matter. But the most important point for me is when I was convicted by the Holy Spirit on this matter.

2.1 Correct. Many metal listeners are very friendly and nice people. They don't go around hurting people or doing bad things. What metal really does is draw your spirit to the dark side without you even knowing it. Many metal/rock lovers like to associate with the darker side of life like goth, darkness, death, vampires, blood and so on. This is what I realised recently happened to me over the years. These things mentioned should have no place in a Christian's life. Note that God not only judge people by their actions, but also what is in their mind and their hearts. It is not a coincidence that rock and metal music are becoming popular in our time. We are living in the endtimes. This is a evil ploy by Satan to cause people to sin unknowingly, twarting their chance of making it to the Rapture, and also to prepare them to receive the Antichrist.

2.2-2.5 It has all to do with God. If I wasn't a Christian, I would probably listen to anything I like.
So your opinion is based on stupid stereotypes surrounding people who listen to a kind of music, and some retarded bullsh*t about loud and fast music automatically being demonic that has no base in reality whatsoever.

I'm done.
Church teaching. Simple as that.

I assume you are not a Christian. Most non believers don't believe that demons exist. If demons don't exist, the term demonic may very well be non existent as well.  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:22 pm
I'm a Christian, and you may disagree with me, but I don't think guitar riffs are in essence demonic. Sound is sound. You say the lyrics are barely audible. That's fine. But what the lyrics actually are does matter in determining whether that song's Christian or not. It's the lyrics of a Christian song that give meaning to the song, which determine whether it's Christian or not, or at least they can determine when a song is NOT Christian, because a wordless song written for God is perfectly acceptable, too, I think. But when the song talks about sinful things and glorifies them, then I think it's safe to consider it non-Christian.

And the church isn't always right, after all. God is always right, but those who follow Him aren't always correct. If church leaders say something is right or wrong, a member of the congregation, or any Christian for that matter, has the right to challenge them to prove their claims through the Bible. If they can't, they're making things up, or at least their sources aren't directly God-inspired.

Following God requires faith, not blind faith. Question everything, since God asks His people to follow with all their heart, soul, strength, and mind. We can't be mindless followers and just do as church leaders tell us to do without understanding the reasons behind what they want us to do. Because that's what cults do.  

OneWithDunamis


SinfulGuillotine

Perfect Trash

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:27 pm
Genesis of Faith
SinfulGuillotine
Genesis of Faith

1. Secular music are considered ungodly, songs that have no mention of love of God. My current perspective on secular music is it's okay to listen to them once in a while, but one must be careful not to get obsessed with them.

The ability to judge music in terms of its effect on one's faith depends on one's spiritual level and maturity. For one, I did consult several ministers before on this matter. But the most important point for me is when I was convicted by the Holy Spirit on this matter.

2.1 Correct. Many metal listeners are very friendly and nice people. They don't go around hurting people or doing bad things. What metal really does is draw your spirit to the dark side without you even knowing it. Many metal/rock lovers like to associate with the darker side of life like goth, darkness, death, vampires, blood and so on. This is what I realised recently happened to me over the years. These things mentioned should have no place in a Christian's life. Note that God not only judge people by their actions, but also what is in their mind and their hearts. It is not a coincidence that rock and metal music are becoming popular in our time. We are living in the endtimes. This is a evil ploy by Satan to cause people to sin unknowingly, twarting their chance of making it to the Rapture, and also to prepare them to receive the Antichrist.

2.2-2.5 It has all to do with God. If I wasn't a Christian, I would probably listen to anything I like.
So your opinion is based on stupid stereotypes surrounding people who listen to a kind of music, and some retarded bullsh*t about loud and fast music automatically being demonic that has no base in reality whatsoever.

I'm done.
Church teaching. Simple as that.

I assume you are not a Christian. Most non believers don't believe that demons exist. If demons don't exist, the term demonic may very well be non existent as well.
I am Christian. I just have my head screwed on too logically to believe that scary guitar chords summon demons. rolleyes

I've also dedicated myself to musical studies, and therefore find it funny when people call out certain genres of music for sounding "scary and evil" when that music is using material that has been used for centuries, including being used in much religiously-themed music.

Listen to Bach's Mass in b minor sometime. Not that I really think you'll be able to draw any parallels since it doesn't have electric guitar in it and it's fairly obvious that you're not musically educated, but musically, it's the same material that bands like Metallica use.

I'm not joking. Metal is what baroque composers would have written if they had the instrumental technology that we have today. But as it was, the temperment of the keyboard was the fanciest technology they had to work with, so their music came out sounding considerably less loud and threatening.  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:55 pm
OneWithDunamis
I'm a Christian, and you may disagree with me, but I don't think guitar riffs are in essence demonic. Sound is sound. You say the lyrics are barely audible. That's fine. But what the lyrics actually are does matter in determining whether that song's Christian or not. It's the lyrics of a Christian song that give meaning to the song, which determine whether it's Christian or not, or at least they can determine when a song is NOT Christian, because a wordless song written for God is perfectly acceptable, too, I think. But when the song talks about sinful things and glorifies them, then I think it's safe to consider it non-Christian.

And the church isn't always right, after all. God is always right, but those who follow Him aren't always correct. If church leaders say something is right or wrong, a member of the congregation, or any Christian for that matter, has the right to challenge them to prove their claims through the Bible. If they can't, they're making things up, or at least their sources aren't directly God-inspired.

Following God requires faith, not blind faith. Question everything, since God asks His people to follow with all their heart, soul, strength, and mind. We can't be mindless followers and just do as church leaders tell us to do without understanding the reasons behind what they want us to do. Because that's what cults do.
I myself can't judge whether a thing is demonic or not. It is God/Jesus/Holy Spirit that calls the shot, not Man, not you, not I. The point of the thread is not whether you or I think it is demonic, it has nothing to do with opinions.

Like I have said, I was convicted by the Spirit. Prior to that, I like metal to some extend. I wonder how many of you tried out the steps I have mentioned. I can't bring myself to listen to any metal when I am totally into God's presence. *** Put it clearly if you guys can listen to metal while being immersed in the Holy Spirit, I shall rest my case on whoever can do that.

I regard those who have been trained in theology pretty highly. Yes, it doesn't mean I agree with every parts of the sermons that are being preached. But the nature of metal is not definitely one of them. Metal is still regarded generally by Christian churches to be demonic.

A simple analogy here. Giving the benefit of doubt that metal could be okay to listen to.

Church A says that listening to metal is a sin
Church B says it is okay.

Outcome 1: Metal is a sin
People who don't listen to metal are not judged.
People who listen to metal are judged.

Outcome 2: Metal is not a sin
Both 2 groups of people are not judged.

Personally I do not know of any orthodox Christian church that do allow metal. So let's presume 9 out of 10 churches teach that it is a sin. Presumably, 9 out of 10 Christians are taught it is a sin (1 out of 10 are taught it is not) Each and everyone of them have to decide for themselves how they wanna regard the teaching. You and I are among those people. Both of us do not know for sure whether it is absolutely a sin or not, except for God Himself. If you ask me, I will not take the risk. Still giving you the benefit of doubt that you may be right.  

Fallpray


Fallpray

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:02 pm
SinfulGuillotine
Genesis of Faith
SinfulGuillotine
Genesis of Faith

1. Secular music are considered ungodly, songs that have no mention of love of God. My current perspective on secular music is it's okay to listen to them once in a while, but one must be careful not to get obsessed with them.

The ability to judge music in terms of its effect on one's faith depends on one's spiritual level and maturity. For one, I did consult several ministers before on this matter. But the most important point for me is when I was convicted by the Holy Spirit on this matter.

2.1 Correct. Many metal listeners are very friendly and nice people. They don't go around hurting people or doing bad things. What metal really does is draw your spirit to the dark side without you even knowing it. Many metal/rock lovers like to associate with the darker side of life like goth, darkness, death, vampires, blood and so on. This is what I realised recently happened to me over the years. These things mentioned should have no place in a Christian's life. Note that God not only judge people by their actions, but also what is in their mind and their hearts. It is not a coincidence that rock and metal music are becoming popular in our time. We are living in the endtimes. This is a evil ploy by Satan to cause people to sin unknowingly, twarting their chance of making it to the Rapture, and also to prepare them to receive the Antichrist.

2.2-2.5 It has all to do with God. If I wasn't a Christian, I would probably listen to anything I like.
So your opinion is based on stupid stereotypes surrounding people who listen to a kind of music, and some retarded bullsh*t about loud and fast music automatically being demonic that has no base in reality whatsoever.

I'm done.
Church teaching. Simple as that.

I assume you are not a Christian. Most non believers don't believe that demons exist. If demons don't exist, the term demonic may very well be non existent as well.
I am Christian. I just have my head screwed on too logically to believe that scary guitar chords summon demons. rolleyes

I've also dedicated myself to musical studies, and therefore find it funny when people call out certain genres of music for sounding "scary and evil" when that music is using material that has been used for centuries, including being used in much religiously-themed music.

Listen to Bach's Mass in b minor sometime. Not that I really think you'll be able to draw any parallels since it doesn't have electric guitar in it and it's fairly obvious that you're not musically educated, but musically, it's the same material that bands like Metallica use.

I'm not joking. Metal is what baroque composers would have written if they had the instrumental technology that we have today. But as it was, the temperment of the keyboard was the fanciest technology they had to work with, so their music came out sounding considerably less loud and threatening.
That's some interesting analysis. But you might wanna re-read my first post. I am not interested in long term debate. My purpose is to get metal listeners to test it with the Spirit. That's the key point.  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:43 am
Genesis of Faith
That's some interesting analysis. But you might wanna re-read my first post. I am not interested in long term debate. My purpose is to get metal listeners to test it with the Spirit. That's the key point.
If you say or imply an opinion on a very subjective topic with no proof beyond "so-and-so told me that it's wrong and this guy I knew once did bad stuff because of the music he listened to," it's going to instigate some disagreement.

Sorry, mate. That's the way it goes.  

SinfulGuillotine

Perfect Trash


Fallpray

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:16 am
SinfulGuillotine
Genesis of Faith
That's some interesting analysis. But you might wanna re-read my first post. I am not interested in long term debate. My purpose is to get metal listeners to test it with the Spirit. That's the key point.
If you say or imply an opinion on a very subjective topic with no proof beyond "so-and-so told me that it's wrong and this guy I knew once did bad stuff because of the music he listened to," it's going to instigate some disagreement.

Sorry, mate. That's the way it goes.
Np. Each to his own.  
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:20 am
Genesis of Faith
Mountain Rose
Genesis of Faith
OneWithDunamis
I don't listen to Christian metal, but if it's really Christian music, why would that be bad for your spirituality? If the music is demonic in any way, how is it Christian music then? Can you give some specific song samples?

Music: Screaming vocals, metal guitar riffs = demonic

The vocals were almost inaudible in most of them, making those music sound not so different from typical metal. Christians who listen to them unknowingly listened to metal that were disguised as Christian music.

Christian = Of Christ (Jesus Christ)

Anyone can label a thing or product as Christian if he or she wants to and market or sell it as a Christian item. But the thing may not necessarily be something that Jesus would approve of.

Where in the Bible does it say that screaming vocals and metal guitar riffs are demonic? How can they be demonic if they're an expression of a Christian's human soul (which I believe all music is, Christian or not)?

1.0
And where in the Bible does it say we can listen to screaming vocals and metal guitar riffs? Where in the Bible does it say we can't look at porn? What about masturbation? Lesbians? Yoga? Meditation? Martial arts? Pork? Violent video games?

When things are not mentioned at all in the Bible, the church has to decide which are right and which are wrong, discerning from a spirit driven perspective and drawing guidance from the Words of God. But I fully understand that different churches/denominations may teach differing doctrines. Which brings to the important question - what is your church's stand on metal music?

1.5 - 2.0
I have prepared the answer to the second part of your reply, but I need to know your church's stand before I dive deeper into the topic.

Well, the Bible does talk about lesbians (1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 both refer to homosexuality in general, not like in Leviticus where it talks about a man lying with a man, specifically).

The rest of those things shouldn't be determined by church doctrines. They should be determined by the Holy Spirit inside each person. Romans 14:20-23 talks about this (I added the emphasis):


Quote:
Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble. You may believe there’s nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who don’t feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right. But if you have doubts about whether or not you should eat something, you are sinning if you go ahead and do it. For you are not following your convictions. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.


So I guess it's all right for you not to listen to Christian metal because you believe it's wrong. However, I don't think it's wrong, and I think it's okay for others to listen to it as long as it doesn't draw them away from God.  

Mountain Rose


SUPERSQUIRRELX

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:16 pm
I really have no problem with Christian metal. While the lyrics might be hard to understand in secular metal, I really doubt anyone who is truely Christian would be singing about anything, like, bad.
I really like Flyleaf, Anberlin, Underoath etc.  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:26 am
Basically this thread shows how mainly the world is just based on stereotypes. If you like metal, you like metal. No one should judge you on that. Personally, I really like CHRISTIAN metal. I see it as one of the most powerful genres. But if you think differently, I really don't want to start an arguement with you. I guess my point is people shouldn't be as stereotypical as we are. Sadly, this is how the world is, and I don't think I can change it, but maybe I can change the minds of the people who read this. People should stop listening to just the music and listen to the lyrics instead. Can't understand the lyrics? Go to a website that has the lyrics on it. I'll bet if you knew the lyrics, you would stop thinking what you already think about metal music. If God gave people the gift of being able to scream, shouldn't they use it to glorify him? Doesn't it say we should use the gift(s) God gave us to glorify him? So why shouldn't people in Christian metal bands be able to glorify him in their own way? If you took the lyrics of a Christian metal song and had a comtempary artist sing them, you would probably find the song beautiful and you would probably have no arguements about it. So why are you this way with Christian metal? There's nothing wrong with it, and the music is praising God the same way any other Christian genre praises him.  

Texas Is South


divineseraph

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:51 am
God wants you to think. You are given a mind, so use it. Here is some stuff by Protest the Hero and their lyrics. You may distrust it at first due to the seemingly anti-christian lyrics, but the words ring true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzDWP-0o3nA - Palms Read

As often as always evolution is crawling from the sea,
Alive with urgency like suicide, like suicide,
Convinced the grass is greener on dry earth;

The march of serrated utterance like a soft cough
Muffled murmur sneaking through the lecture hall.
The crawl across the island, the sound of waves;
Embodied water sprouting legs as loud as gallop,...

All the young people who took a leap without faith into a riverbed
That drowns about as much as it saves.

...Cuffing down on ground against the cries of gravity.

Belly-up, half buried in the sand.
Extend a hand to the smallness of death.
Understand that only dying is this colossal
Creation shedding skin to find a perfect equilibrium like fossils.

All the young people who took a leap of no faith...
All the young cowards acting out...
All the young cowards acting out for the brave forever hurled
Into the waters of their indifferent graves.

For a million years raise your glass
We will never answer where we came from...
For a million years raise your glass in cheers
We will never answer where we came from only how we got...
For a million years raise your glass
We will never answer where we came from...
For a million years raise your glass
...only how we got here.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WupES7LHZU&feature=related - Wretch

Chews the fat with his creator
Over breakfast in the sunlight.

When he says grace! when he says grace
he feels enveloped like a shadow

0:37
But there are evenings, there are evenings
When this decimated world of moventment, color and form
Gets thin, and getting thinner
When lights are dim and getting dimmer
When nights are grim and only getting, only getting grimmer.
????? OH!

As they barter their boulders
And martyr their soldiers
Teach a man to tear her f**king head
From her God-damned shoulders

Held into the sun
By the strands of her hair x3

They impart the secret hatred
From their fathers to their heirs

2:18
In silence left unbroken
On the bed, bound and gagged.
Bound, bound and gagged

2:33
With culture,language, myth and law
Our goddess gave birth,
Our goddess gave birth to your God

3:16
On a bed Bound and gagged
With culture, language, myth and law
From a wounded womb her flesh was scarred
And raw

Our goddess gave birth to your God x4
God damn!

Culture, language, myth and law
Our goddess, gagged
Culture, language, myth and law
Our goddess gave birth to your God.  
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*~Let the Fire Fall ~* A Christian Guild

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