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xxPromarkxx

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:11 pm
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
Sarcastic_Angel
divineseraph
Sarcastic_Angel
In response to the original question:

I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement.

As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity:

They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible.


They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well.

It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none.


True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same.

As to your second response to me:
World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion.
And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain.


Thanks to Siren and Promark.
You're welcome Angel of the End.


Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals.

And if this is what you are taught, what makes muslims wrong or bad for believing what THEY were taught? And hold on, you don't believe in any other prophet? Moses was wrong? Noah was wrong? Abraham was wrong? Those who think of the timeline of religion as "Nothing, nothing nothing, Jesus is God, Liars, liars, liars" are simply wrong.


Geez, you're making one mistake after another aren't you? Seriously, stop taking things out of context.

Like my sister said, Jesus fullfilled the covenant and the old laws while at the same time negated them. We never said the Muslims were bad. We just think that all the other religions are wrong, just the same as the Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists. Please, stop insulting people.


I'm not the only one taking things out of context. I am using the lack of context to prove the invalidity of the logic being presented.

If all other religions are wrong, then what happens to them? Can you really condemn an entire group of people to burn forever for something you believe? How is this not hateful?


You tell them the message of Christ, and then you simply love them. If they choose to not listen, then that is their fault. God gave us free will, and you can choose whether or not to listen.  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:12 pm
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
Sarcastic_Angel


True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same.

As to your second response to me:
World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion.
And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain.


Thanks to Siren and Promark.
You're welcome Angel of the End.


Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals.

And if this is what you are taught, what makes muslims wrong or bad for believing what THEY were taught? And hold on, you don't believe in any other prophet? Moses was wrong? Noah was wrong? Abraham was wrong? Those who think of the timeline of religion as "Nothing, nothing nothing, Jesus is God, Liars, liars, liars" are simply wrong.


Geez, you're making one mistake after another aren't you? Seriously, stop taking things out of context.

Like my sister said, Jesus fullfilled the covenant and the old laws while at the same time negated them. We never said the Muslims were bad. We just think that all the other religions are wrong, just the same as the Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists. Please, stop insulting people.


I'm not the only one taking things out of context. I am using the lack of context to prove the invalidity of the logic being presented.

If all other religions are wrong, then what happens to them? Can you really condemn an entire group of people to burn forever for something you believe? How is this not hateful?


You tell them the message of Christ, and then you simply love them. If they choose to not listen, then that is their fault. God gave us free will, and you can choose whether or not to listen.

How is it their fault to worship the same God in a different way? How is that evil? So long as they follow His basic rules, what is the problem?  

divineseraph


xxPromarkxx

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:17 pm
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph


Trinities? How interesting you mention that.

http://HungerWolf.deviantart.com/art/Alchemical-Circle-92696724

This is my alchemical circle of the three monotheistic religions. Notice, there is a trinity there, of the three religions. If each trinity connected makes a triangle, what do the two together create? Why, it's a star of David.

But muslims DO believe in the same god because they believe in Jesus as a prophet. They believe in the New Testament, the Old Testament and The Koran, which is the New New Testament. They believe in Noah, Moses, Mary, all of the prophets and religious figures. ALL the islamic religion does is add ONE extra prophet and his scripture. That's it. It's not a moon-goddess, it's not about murdering the innocent for Jihad (which, by the way, was originally intended to be peaceful demonstration of faith), It's not about some new, crazy sun-god. It's Christianity with a new prophet.


Muslims believe in Mohammed (I probably spelled that wrong) as the Son of God. Christians believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews don't believe that he has come yet. How can these religions be the same?


No they don't. Muslims believe that Mohammed is a prophet. Not the son of God. And other than the "Who's the son of God" question, all of the religions are exactly the same. Even some christians don't think Jesus WAS God, but just the latest powerful prophet.


Sorry, I've haven't slept for the past four days. Even so, the religions are drastically different. Just compare the Bible with the Qur'an.


On the first few pages, I post the 5 pillars and 5 tenets of Islam. They look oddly familiar.

Edit, here they are.

Such different beliefs?
Five basic tenets-
1- There is One God.
2- Mohammed was a prophet, as were Jesus, Moses and all other aforementioned abrahamic prophets.
3- The Koran is the last holy book, following the Bible, Torah and Gospel of Jesus.
4- Life is a test to see who follows the basic rules.
5- The faithful go to heaven.

Five pillars (Much like christian and jewish 10 commandments)-

1- Profession of Faith (There is only one God)
2-Prayer (five time a day)
3- Giving alms to the poor (Jesus never did anything like this. He loved kicking beggars and pimp-slapping prostitutes.)
4-Fasting (Again, what kind of anti-christ b*****d would fast for, say, 40 days in the deserts of the middle east?)
5- Pilgrimage


Then why does Islam believe that Jews, Christians, or both distorted the message of God?  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:19 pm
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph


Trinities? How interesting you mention that.

http://HungerWolf.deviantart.com/art/Alchemical-Circle-92696724

This is my alchemical circle of the three monotheistic religions. Notice, there is a trinity there, of the three religions. If each trinity connected makes a triangle, what do the two together create? Why, it's a star of David.

But muslims DO believe in the same god because they believe in Jesus as a prophet. They believe in the New Testament, the Old Testament and The Koran, which is the New New Testament. They believe in Noah, Moses, Mary, all of the prophets and religious figures. ALL the islamic religion does is add ONE extra prophet and his scripture. That's it. It's not a moon-goddess, it's not about murdering the innocent for Jihad (which, by the way, was originally intended to be peaceful demonstration of faith), It's not about some new, crazy sun-god. It's Christianity with a new prophet.


Muslims believe in Mohammed (I probably spelled that wrong) as the Son of God. Christians believe in Jesus as the Son of God. Jews don't believe that he has come yet. How can these religions be the same?


No they don't. Muslims believe that Mohammed is a prophet. Not the son of God. And other than the "Who's the son of God" question, all of the religions are exactly the same. Even some christians don't think Jesus WAS God, but just the latest powerful prophet.


Sorry, I've haven't slept for the past four days. Even so, the religions are drastically different. Just compare the Bible with the Qur'an.


On the first few pages, I post the 5 pillars and 5 tenets of Islam. They look oddly familiar.

Edit, here they are.

Such different beliefs?
Five basic tenets-
1- There is One God.
2- Mohammed was a prophet, as were Jesus, Moses and all other aforementioned abrahamic prophets.
3- The Koran is the last holy book, following the Bible, Torah and Gospel of Jesus.
4- Life is a test to see who follows the basic rules.
5- The faithful go to heaven.

Five pillars (Much like christian and jewish 10 commandments)-

1- Profession of Faith (There is only one God)
2-Prayer (five time a day)
3- Giving alms to the poor (Jesus never did anything like this. He loved kicking beggars and pimp-slapping prostitutes.)
4-Fasting (Again, what kind of anti-christ b*****d would fast for, say, 40 days in the deserts of the middle east?)
5- Pilgrimage


Then why does Islam believe that Jews, Christians, or both distorted the message of God?


The same reason many Christians think Jews got it wrong. New information.  

divineseraph


xxPromarkxx

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:22 pm
The quotes are getting too long. Here's a list of the stuff I need to respond to:

1)The five basic tenants are similar.
Then why does Islam state that Christians, Jews, or both religions distorted the message of God?

2)Where to Muslims go, in your mind?
Believing that they go to hell and condemming them to hell are two very different things.

3)Why are Muslims bad if they follow the same God in a different way?
The gods aren't the same. We're still arguing about this, so let's drop it.

4)Why can't Christ forgive the people who don't believe in him?
That is a logical fallacy. How can someone's imaginary friend give me candy?  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:22 pm
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
Sarcastic_Angel


True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same.

As to your second response to me:
World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion.
And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain.


Thanks to Siren and Promark.
You're welcome Angel of the End.


Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals.

And if this is what you are taught, what makes muslims wrong or bad for believing what THEY were taught? And hold on, you don't believe in any other prophet? Moses was wrong? Noah was wrong? Abraham was wrong? Those who think of the timeline of religion as "Nothing, nothing nothing, Jesus is God, Liars, liars, liars" are simply wrong.


Geez, you're making one mistake after another aren't you? Seriously, stop taking things out of context.

Like my sister said, Jesus fullfilled the covenant and the old laws while at the same time negated them. We never said the Muslims were bad. We just think that all the other religions are wrong, just the same as the Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists. Please, stop insulting people.


I'm not the only one taking things out of context. I am using the lack of context to prove the invalidity of the logic being presented.

If all other religions are wrong, then what happens to them? Can you really condemn an entire group of people to burn forever for something you believe? How is this not hateful?


You tell them the message of Christ, and then you simply love them. If they choose to not listen, then that is their fault. God gave us free will, and you can choose whether or not to listen.


If Christ chose to forgive the people who spit on him, whipped him, killed him...

Why can't he forgive people who follow his guidelines but are "misinformed" of his position? How can He at once forgive the jews for slaughtering him, but condemn later jews and muslims for believing what they were raised to believe? Especially when those beliefs are directed towards the same Abrahamic God?  

divineseraph


divineseraph

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:25 pm
xxPromarkxx
The quotes are getting too long. Here's a list of the stuff I need to respond to:

1)The five basic tenants are similar.
Then why does Islam state that Christians, Jews, or both religions distorted the message of God?

2)Where to Muslims go, in your mind?
Believing that they go to hell and condemming them to hell are two very different things.

3)Why are Muslims bad if they follow the same God in a different way?
The gods aren't the same. We're still arguing about this, so let's drop it.


2- Well, Muslims don't believe they go to hell. They also believe that Christians and Jews go to heaven. So amongst the two of you, who is more condemning?

3- The Gods ARE the same. You are factually wrong. I will not drop it, I cannot allow you to spread such blatant untruth. Allah is God is Yahweh is Jehova is YHWH is the God of Abraham. Do some research.  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:28 pm
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
The quotes are getting too long. Here's a list of the stuff I need to respond to:

1)The five basic tenants are similar.
Then why does Islam state that Christians, Jews, or both religions distorted the message of God?

2)Where to Muslims go, in your mind?
Believing that they go to hell and condemming them to hell are two very different things.

3)Why are Muslims bad if they follow the same God in a different way?
The gods aren't the same. We're still arguing about this, so let's drop it.


2- Well, Muslims don't believe they go to hell. They also believe that Christians and Jews go to heaven. So amongst the two of you, who is more condemning?

3- The Gods ARE the same. You are factually wrong. I will not drop it, I cannot allow you to spread such blatant untruth. Allah is God is Yahweh is Jehova is YHWH is the God of Abraham. Do some research.


1) You still have not responded to this one.

2) I can't say because I don't judge people as a whole.

3) Please, show me your research that says that they are.

4)Why can't Christ forgive the people who don't believe in him?
That is a logical fallacy. How can someone's imaginary friend give me candy?  

xxPromarkxx


divineseraph

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:31 pm
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
The quotes are getting too long. Here's a list of the stuff I need to respond to:

1)The five basic tenants are similar.
Then why does Islam state that Christians, Jews, or both religions distorted the message of God?

2)Where to Muslims go, in your mind?
Believing that they go to hell and condemming them to hell are two very different things.

3)Why are Muslims bad if they follow the same God in a different way?
The gods aren't the same. We're still arguing about this, so let's drop it.


2- Well, Muslims don't believe they go to hell. They also believe that Christians and Jews go to heaven. So amongst the two of you, who is more condemning?

3- The Gods ARE the same. You are factually wrong. I will not drop it, I cannot allow you to spread such blatant untruth. Allah is God is Yahweh is Jehova is YHWH is the God of Abraham. Do some research.


1) You still have not responded to this one.

2) I can't say because I don't judge people as a whole.

3) Please, show me your research that says that they are.


1- I did, above. The same reasons Christians think Jews had it wrong. New information.

2- But you DID judge muslims as a whole- They all burn in hell, amirite? Or is it now NOT just about Christ when we decide for ourselves who we think goes to heaven or hell?

And even as a religion versus religion idea, which RELIGION is more tolerant, Christianity which says that Jesus is the only way, or Islam which says that Islam or any preceding religion including Christians and Jews is the way?

3- I have. They believe in all the same Holy books, they believe in Jesus as a prophet, they believe in ALL of the same prophets as christians, plus one. Please go back to the 5 tenets if you get confused here.  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:33 pm
xxPromarkxx
divineseraph
xxPromarkxx
The quotes are getting too long. Here's a list of the stuff I need to respond to:

1)The five basic tenants are similar.
Then why does Islam state that Christians, Jews, or both religions distorted the message of God?

2)Where to Muslims go, in your mind?
Believing that they go to hell and condemming them to hell are two very different things.

3)Why are Muslims bad if they follow the same God in a different way?
The gods aren't the same. We're still arguing about this, so let's drop it.


2- Well, Muslims don't believe they go to hell. They also believe that Christians and Jews go to heaven. So amongst the two of you, who is more condemning?

3- The Gods ARE the same. You are factually wrong. I will not drop it, I cannot allow you to spread such blatant untruth. Allah is God is Yahweh is Jehova is YHWH is the God of Abraham. Do some research.


1) You still have not responded to this one.

2) I can't say because I don't judge people as a whole.

3) Please, show me your research that says that they are.

4)Why can't Christ forgive the people who don't believe in him?
That is a logical fallacy. How can someone's imaginary friend give me candy?


4-It's not a logical fallacy. Which logical fallacy does it fall under? It is a valid question. If Jesus forgives sins, and not believing Jesus is a sin, then Jesus must forgive not believing in Jesus. Modus Ponens.  

divineseraph


xxPromarkxx

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:41 pm
1) Exactly. The religions can't agree.

2) Everyone who isn't Christian is going to hell. Everyone who jumps off a building is going to fall. I'm not judging people, I'm stating fact.

3) 3 basic examples isn't research. If you read the Bible and the Qur'an thoroughly, then you will see many contradictions between the two.

4)Why can't Christ forgive the people who don't believe in him?
That is a logical fallacy. How can someone's imaginary friend give me candy?  
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:45 pm
xxPromarkxx
1) Exactly. The religions can't agree.

2) Everyone who isn't Christian is going to hell. Everyone who jumps off a building is going to fall. I'm not judging people, I'm stating fact.

3) 3 basic examples isn't research. If you read the Bible and the Qur'an thoroughly, then you will see many contradictions between the two.

4)Why can't Christ forgive the people who don't believe in him?
That is a logical fallacy. How can someone's imaginary friend give me candy?


1- They can, if they try.

2- No, you are stating beliefs. Muslims will just as often tell you that no, you won't go to hell for not calling Jesus God.

3- If you read the old testament and the new testament thoroughly... If you read the bible and a chemistry textbook thoroughly...
Of course they don't exactly match up. But they lead to the same BASIC ideas. That and the Koran is added later. Just like the New testament. It is the new new testament. They believe in the words of the New and Old testaments. I don't see why they would do that if they didn't believe in the same God.

4- Not a logical fallacy.  

divineseraph


mazuac

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:57 pm
User Image
He has Redeemed Me!Though I


You know what Divine Seraph? Get this through your thick head. We Christians beleive Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light. We beleive through him, we get into Heaven. This is what Christianity teaches, and it is what we beleive. Just as Islam believes in working for Allah, how Pagans beleive in pleasing their Gods. Okay? God, I am past patience with you. You can't see what we beleive? Fine, don't see what we beleive. But, please, this anger and annoyance is just aggravating to all of us. We beleive what we beleive, I highly doubt this heated debate is going to change that...

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am undeserving, He gave his life for mine.
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:00 pm
mazuac
User Image
He has Redeemed Me!Though I


You know what Divine Seraph? Get this through your thick head. We Christians beleive Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light. We beleive through him, we get into Heaven. This is what Christianity teaches, and it is what we beleive. Just as Islam believes in working for Allah, how Pagans beleive in pleasing their Gods. Okay? God, I am past patience with you. You can't see what we beleive? Fine, don't see what we beleive. But, please, this anger and annoyance is just aggravating to all of us. We beleive what we beleive, I highly doubt this heated debate is going to change that...

User Image

am undeserving, He gave his life for mine.


If you will accept facts, then I will accept that. However, you still seem to be stuck on anti-facts which will not allow you to see truth or reality, only the teachings you are too lazy to look into beyond face-value.  

divineseraph


mazuac

4,500 Points
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:00 pm
divineseraph
Sarcastic_Angel
divineseraph
Sarcastic_Angel
In response to the original question:

I could see there being attempts made for a universal religion. However, I am not a fan of the idea, unless it was Christianity and everyone believed on their own faith, and not by law. But the concept of mixing all the major world religions would be blasphemy towards our God. And I doubt it would work for long. I heard at once that people can only live in groups of about 200 before different beleifs and ideas set in and there is disagreement.

As to the differences between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity:

They are different. Which is why they are different religions. Christianity originated from Judaism, yet we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not just a prophet. Islam is drastically different, giving their god a different name, never mentioning a savior like Jesus, and giving different guidelines to get to heaven. Plus Judaism and Islam have set rules as to conduct, punishment, diet, and social standings. Christianity has none of that, making everyone equal in the eyes of God and simply asking that we believe in Jesus dying for us, and that God is the one true God, and then trying to live a Godly life (this excludes Catholicism who as far as I understand requires another person to talk to God for the common human. Sorry if I have gotten this wrong, that is what my knowledge is). There are a million differences, both small and large, in the religions that set them apart. Although Islam claims that they believe in the same God as us and that their beliefs are the same, I don't see how that is possible.


They didn't give God a new name, Allah is translated to God. Unless all those spanish christians worshiping some dude named "Deos" are worshiping a new God as well.

It's possible because you are uneducated abut islam and make up gaps where there are none.


True that Allah translated is God. Thank you for pointing that, and please forgive me as I haven't used what Islamic knowledge I do have in over a year. However, although Islams claim that Allah is the same as God, why doesn't Allah give the same guidelines and truths as he does in the Bible? Allah orders that theives have their hand cut off while God declares that everyone should be forgiven "70 times 7" times although we definitely don't deserve it. They are not the same.

As to your second response to me:
World peace is not blasphemous, just highly, highly, highly unlikely. Christ Followers like myself are taught in the New Testement that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternity in heaven with God. So to us, and our beliefs, combining other religions with our own and changing Christianity to fit with other religions is blasphemous. As to the belief that only one prophet is the way to heaven and that there are those "idiots," as you call them, that follow him, it is what I was taught to believe, it is what all Christ followers are taught to believe, and it is part of our religion.
And thanks for calling me an idiot. Really, thanks. I would rather be considered an idiot on earth and live for eternity, then spend eternity in grief and pain.


Thanks to Siren and Promark.
You're welcome Angel of the End.


Forgive them 70 times 7 times, unless they practice sorcery or eat pork or are homosexual or are slaves. An eye for an eye. Any religion can look harsh if you're looking for the outdated violence in the text written by mortals.
User Image
He has Redeemed Me!Though I


Also, another reason why he says "70 times 7" (77 in some texts) is because 7 is the most perfect number in Hebrew. God rested on the seventh day, etc. Thus, it shows that we are to forgive as many as need to be forgiven, or we need to forgive everyone, just as God did.


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am undeserving, He gave his life for mine.
 
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