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mazuac

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:16 pm


I recently gave up Christianity because I realized that it was biased and made a p erson beleive a certain way, and, well, I don't really want to talk about it... but yeah, you get a basic picture?

Anyways, I think buddhism is for me, and what I want to know is, what kind of buddhist would I be if I just tried to help get good karma out and gain enlightment and stuff... I am still kind of confued on that...

Also, is there a heaven for buddhists?

And finally, if I should become Buddhist, how would I tell my parents?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:02 pm


mazuac
I recently gave up Christianity because I realized that it was biased and made a p erson beleive a certain way, and, well, I don't really want to talk about it... but yeah, you get a basic picture?

Anyways, I think buddhism is for me, and what I want to know is, what kind of buddhist would I be if I just tried to help get good karma out and gain enlightment and stuff... I am still kind of confued on that...

If you think that Buddhism may be for you, then definately research it. Read what you can, think about what you're reading, question what you read. You'll find that something that is encouraged in Buddhism is to question the teachings. If someone says, "Don't lie" then you ask, "why?" If they say, "because it's harmful", then ask, "how is it harmful?" Keep asking, because that's the only way you'll ever know anything for certain.

Questions are good. 3nodding

All Buddhists use their words kindly, do kind things, and change their minds to be of the greatest possible benefit to others. In this way, good karma is generated. Of course the point of good karma isn't so that we get things we want. Karma isn't like money. But what it can do is create the causes for us to realize enlightenment.

You don't have to think of yourself as a Tibetan Buddhist, or a Zen Buddhist, or a Pure Land or Therevadan Buddhist. You can just be yourself, who may or may not agree with Buddhist teachings and practices. If one of the traditions calls to you more than another, then study it. And don't feel like you have to stick to one tradition. It's good to investigate them all, because they all have the same roots.

mazuac
Also, is there a heaven for buddhists?

Heaven does exist in Buddhism, but it's not considered to be a place that you want to go to. This is because, in Buddhism, it's believed that your stay in Heaven is not permanent. Eventually you'll use up your good karma and find yourself back in another realm - the Human Realm, possibly.

This also goes for the Hell Realm. If your bad karma takes you there, it's not permanent. Your karma runs out, and you're reborn elsewhere.

The goal, of course, in Buddhism is to escape the cycle of rebirth altogether. To stop being reborn in the Heavenly, Human or Hell Realms. This is because they are all impermanent, and they are all unsatisfying because of it.

mazuac
And finally, if I should become Buddhist, how would I tell my parents?

That depends on what kind of people your parents are. You should be honest with your parents, of course, but how you tell them will depend on what kind of people they are.

Are they strongly religious? Are they open to other religions? Do they know anything about Buddhism already?

Tenzin Chodron
Crew


mazuac

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:39 pm


Thanks biggrin And also, they are not strongly religous, but I don't think they would like.... hm... I dunno how to put it. I guess I would have to say that they would want me to be christian, but I just can't. I don't think they know much of buddhism either... I have also recently practiced meditation and WOW! It's incredible! I have never expierenced anything like it. I meditated last night and this morning and felt rejuvenated. I feel like... my senses were heightened and I had more patience, it's incredible! 3nodding blaugh
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:57 am


mazuac
Thanks biggrin And also, they are not strongly religous, but I don't think they would like.... hm... I dunno how to put it. I guess I would have to say that they would want me to be christian, but I just can't. I don't think they know much of buddhism either...

Now may not be the best time to tell them. Perhaps it would be better suited for a time after you've studied more, and know more about buddhism. You could anticipate some of the questions they might have and have answers ready for them, or reference material at least.

You could also point out the parallels between buddhist teachings and what Christ taught as well. There's a thread in this Guild about that. 3nodding

mazuac
I have also recently practiced meditation and WOW! It's incredible! I have never expierenced anything like it. I meditated last night and this morning and felt rejuvenated. I feel like... my senses were heightened and I had more patience, it's incredible! 3nodding blaugh

Great! Meditation has been shown to improve concentration, memory, problem-solving skills, and emotional management. There are a lot of interesting scientific studies on the effects of meditation on the brain.

The important thing with meditation, though, isn't how long you meditate during each session, but how regularly you do it. It should become a habit like brushing your teeth. So it should be done every day, for a similar length of time. Perhaps you can only manage five or ten minutes a day - even that's good!

Tenzin Chodron
Crew


mazuac

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:13 pm


That's what I have been trying to do biggrin 5 minutes in he morning and five at night. biggrin Thanks a lot! You cleared a lot of stuff up for me! blaugh 3nodding
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:19 pm


That's wonderful news! I'm sure that, within a week's time, you'll start to notice the effects of meditation on your ability to concentrate. Beginning with just five minutes is perfect! After a week or two of that, you could also try extending that by another five minutes, so you're doing a ten-minute meditation.

Meditation is a very important tool in Buddhism. It sharpens your mind so that you can turn it toward topics of importance. It will help you to see into the nature of the mind, reality, suffering, happiness, et cetera. Meditation is not done for its own sake, or because it feels good - those are are excellent side-effects, but of course the point of meditation is to improve our concentration so that we can become better at seeing through our chattering minds. biggrin

Tenzin Chodron
Crew


ElectricLoki

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:13 pm


Nirvahara
That's wonderful news! I'm sure that, within a week's time, you'll start to notice the effects of meditation on your ability to concentrate. Beginning with just five minutes is perfect! After a week or two of that, you could also try extending that by another five minutes, so you're doing a ten-minute meditation.

Meditation is a very important tool in Buddhism. It sharpens your mind so that you can turn it toward topics of importance. It will help you to see into the nature of the mind, reality, suffering, happiness, et cetera. Meditation is not done for its own sake, or because it feels good - those are are excellent side-effects, but of course the point of meditation is to improve our concentration so that we can become better at seeing through our chattering minds. biggrin


Excellent points. A term for the good feelings experienced during meditation is "pliancy," which is often distinguished as being physical and/or mental in nature (both types tend to co-occur so the differences aren't really worth discussing in my opinion). I'm pretty certain the Dalai Lama mentioned it in his "Stages of Meditation" book and I think I've encountered the term in other Tibetan Buddhist works.

The good feelings and related phenomena experienced are generally spoken of as being signs that one's practice is meeting some degree of success and that you should continue. As Nirvahara mentioned, they shouldn't be the goal of practice but they are enjoyments that make an otherwise challenging path bearable to people.

I've found that meditation does indeed occur in a series of ever-deepening mental stages. Sadly, the first stage usually involves boredom and/or anxiousness that can be hard to bypass at first. With diligence and concentration the feelings of pliancy will develop and distractedness will usually subside, though one should still remain observant of one's feelings and thoughts so one doesn't become complacent with the changes. Tendencies toward "mental laxity" are troublesome well-into meditation and require active awareness to avoid falling into a practically unconscious state,* though a simple unaware dull state is typical.

If you have substantial changes in feeling after the initial five minutes of meditation, you can try to continue the practice and see how far you can extend it (your schedule permitting). Good luck!

*Sometimes meditators actually aim for such "absorptions" and there is Buddhist literature support for the ability to enter such trances as being a sign of expert meditation skills. However, the value of the practice is controversial, with some Tibetan sects highly regarding it while the Theravedans tend to avoid it like the plague.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:25 am


ElectricLoki
Excellent points. A term for the good feelings experienced during meditation is "pliancy," which is often distinguished as being physical and/or mental in nature (both types tend to co-occur so the differences aren't really worth discussing in my opinion). I'm pretty certain the Dalai Lama mentioned it in his "Stages of Meditation" book and I think I've encountered the term in other Tibetan Buddhist works.

I've never seen that word before, so naturally I'm excited! Thank you for expanding my vocabulary today! biggrin

ElectricLoki
*Sometimes meditators actually aim for such "absorptions" and there is Buddhist literature support for the ability to enter such trances as being a sign of expert meditation skills. However, the value of the practice is controversial, with some Tibetan sects highly regarding it while the Theravedans tend to avoid it like the plague.

The absorptions are a curious topic. There are the four form-realm absorptions and the four formless-realm absorptions. Some have gone so far as to say that these absorptions are the reason why, in Buddhist myth, certain figures displayed psychic abilities. Which I tend to dismiss because of my skeptical Western upbringing, and scientific-orientation, but I still find the idea of these absorptions interesting.

I wonder what it would be like to watch brain activity while someone is one of these stages.

Tenzin Chodron
Crew


ElectricLoki

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:25 am


Nirvahara
ElectricLoki
Excellent points. A term for the good feelings experienced during meditation is "pliancy," which is often distinguished as being physical and/or mental in nature (both types tend to co-occur so the differences aren't really worth discussing in my opinion). I'm pretty certain the Dalai Lama mentioned it in his "Stages of Meditation" book and I think I've encountered the term in other Tibetan Buddhist works.

I've never seen that word before, so naturally I'm excited! Thank you for expanding my vocabulary today! biggrin

ElectricLoki
*Sometimes meditators actually aim for such "absorptions" and there is Buddhist literature support for the ability to enter such trances as being a sign of expert meditation skills. However, the value of the practice is controversial, with some Tibetan sects highly regarding it while the Theravedans tend to avoid it like the plague.

The absorptions are a curious topic. There are the four form-realm absorptions and the four formless-realm absorptions. Some have gone so far as to say that these absorptions are the reason why, in Buddhist myth, certain figures displayed psychic abilities. Which I tend to dismiss because of my skeptical Western upbringing, and scientific-orientation, but I still find the idea of these absorptions interesting.

I wonder what it would be like to watch brain activity while someone is one of these stages.


There apparently has been plenty of recent work in watching the brain activity of yogis and meditators; I believe the Dalai Lama is one of the leaders in reaching out to the scientific community on these matters! However, I don't know whether any study has looked at the four absorptions specifically (I'll try to look for the articles and let you know...)

From my readings the Theravadans lump the absorptions into one broad category and try to avoid "falling" into them during insight meditation. Some Mahayana sects do teach of the "four absorptions" as you mentioned, with Tibetan sources referring to them rather frequently.

To the Mahayana the four absorptions allow the practitioner to gain rebirth amongst the devas of the corresponding Realm if he or she so chooses. However, Buddhists who choose that path risk "losing time" in their advancement because devas are seldom able to advance spiritually like humans, though the devas are said to have much greater minds that can deal with complex subjects more easily (devas experience little suffering so they generally feel little need to practice).

In contrast, bodhisattva practitioners are to master the absorptions as part of their training but not choose rebirth in the god-realms (unless they have specific good reasons for doing so). The process of mastering the absorptions and moving from a coarser stage to a more subtle one teaches the practitioner to become unattached to increasingly subtle "snares" found within the mind and the corresponding aspects of the Realms as they are found in conventional reality. The experience of the absorptions is in itself held to be practically worthless and may prove to be "drug like"/addictive to the practitioner, so caution is often advised.

I think I've heard that siddhis (yogic/psychic powers) can be gained through the absorptions, but I do recall that mastering the first (or second?) absorption ensures that the individual will be karmically prevented from rebirth in the Lower Realms (hell-being, hungry-ghost, and probably animal) and can ensure rebirth as human or deva.

Though I'm skeptical of some of the supernaturalism found in Buddhist traditions, I'm open to the possible existence of the yogic powers since I've experienced weird stuff in my days (which have grown somewhat with meditation).
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:15 pm


Whoa! Cool! Like what!?!?!??!!?! (with the wierd things that have happened in your life since meditation)

Also, sometimes when I meditate, I fall into a trance, and peacefulness. Would that be considred "absobation?"

Oh! And finally, since humans only use a small portion of the brain, the more you meditate is supposed to increase sharpness and mastery over your feelings and emotions and what not, right? Well, what if, because of that, an increase of brain activity causes "yogic" stuff to happen?

mazuac

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:28 pm


Actually, I don't really have much to add in the topic on the whole, but I would like to clarify something: The statement that humans only use a small portion - usually quoted as 10% or so - of their brain is incorrect. It's long been debunked by scientists, who've proven pretty much the whole thing fires at one time or another, doing different things.

Some of it is active in the background, keeping you doing things you otherwise don't really notice - respiration, for one. The messages being sent to and from various organs to keep them running. Chemical production. Breathing. Blinking. Automatic responses to stimuli. Background processing of information you took in and ignored. Memory, speech, feelings - all that stuff and more goes on in there. It's not all used for active thinking all the time, is all.

Meditation, I've found, just makes me more aware of all the things my brain's normally doing in the background and allows me to better sort out my foreground thoughts. smile
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:13 pm


Heaven is really a sketchy subject.
The definition differs for everyone.
I suppose in older teachings, there are the different realms (Hungry Ghost realm, Heaven Realm, Human Realm, Hell Realm, etc.)
But I tend to look at that as purely metaphorical.
And as far as telling people your Buddhist,
don't.
Because most likely, when you tell people, your ego will be telling people.
There is no reason to tell your parents. Accept their belief (I mean come to terms with it) and just practice what you believe. Don't worry about how others will react.
Often our egos will say "Hey, I'm Buddhist." and of course there's nothing wrong with that. But it's the identification of ourselves AS Buddhists, that can really get us. I mean, it's pretty confusing.
In my opinion, it really draws alot of us away from the Dharma.
There is no I to be Buddhist.
You may be practicing Buddhism, 'making you a Buddhist'
But really, you are no different than a Christian, or a Muslim, and they are no different from you. I'm sure you know that, but I guess it really comes down to something inside you, that has to realize that there is no self. No I. Therefore, there's no need for anyone to know that you're Buddhist.
There's really no reason for them to ask, and if they do, just explain your beliefs. But don't look at it as 'these are my beliefs' and don't even look at it like 'these are the things I believe in.' Just answer their questions. No need to attach any pride with being a 'Buddhist,' though we are often tempted to. I know I am, sometimes.

Peace Love And Skate


PioneerChase

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:49 pm


It seems that you are still in a very Christian mind set. We do not believe in heaven or hell ( unless of course you are speaking of the Tibetans) generally you will find that we have a common belief of reincarnation back into this world( damn attachment!!!)I suggest you research a little more before delving into a complete change of lifestyle. Being Buddhist isn't like being gay, I'm sure if you tell your parents you do not believe in God anymore and want to follow the Buddha they won't be angry for long,in the end you are more enlightened so it should not matter even if they do become angry with you.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:53 pm


mazuac
That's what I have been trying to do biggrin 5 minutes in he morning and five at night. biggrin Thanks a lot! You cleared a lot of stuff up for me! blaugh 3nodding

I am sure you can manage more than five minutes, fifteen is probably my noobie recommended amount.

PioneerChase


xsparkledovex
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:30 pm


Nirguna the Heart


You don't have to think of yourself as a Tibetan Buddhist, or a Zen Buddhist, or a Pure Land or Therevadan Buddhist. You can just be yourself, who may or may not agree with Buddhist teachings and practices. If one of the traditions calls to you more than another, then study it. And don't feel like you have to stick to one tradition. It's good to investigate them all, because they all have the same roots.

Do you reckon there are many people who haven't dedicated to one school or another though? There aren't any temples near me/that I can get to save a tibetan one, which I wouldn't practice anyway. So, a couple years down the line, I still haven't chosen one.
It niggles at me sometimes
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Loving Kindness: A Buddhism Guild

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