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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:11 am
Man, if I went by the OP I should be theravadan not mahayana...
it's true - no teachers I can get to.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:49 am
Swordmaster Dragon I believe both Zen and Pureland (Jodo) Buddhism are contained within the Mahayana tradition. At least, that's where they lie from a historical perspective. While the practices may differ from the parent schools, the belief in the Boddhisattva way are consistently present. Agreed. It should be noted, however, vajrayana can also be seen as "uncommon: mahayana, as maha-yoga empowerments allow you to attain liberation in one life time, assuming you up hold the 14 root samaya and related samaya such as 6 session guru yoga and do daily vajrasattva practice.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:09 am
My understanding of Vajrayana is pretty...infinitesimal compared to my understanding of Mahayana. But the allegory that was drawn out for me is that of the past, present, and future:
Theravada believes in the Arhat way, the way of the historical Buddha in his life (past).
Mahayana believes in the Boddhisattva way, the way of the mystic Buddha, brought about a scant few hundred years after his death (present).
Vajrayana believes in the cosmic Buddha, the pervasiveness of the Dharma in the time many years after the historical Buddha's death (future).
As far as I know, Vajrayana grew out of some more esoteric Mahayana traditions, but has come to establish itself as an entire subsection of Buddhism. Much of the philosophy coming from the Vajrayana schools, filtering into Southern China and Japan in the early 1400s, was markedly different from classical Mahayana texts, and was the root of influence for revisions made to the Zen (Chen) and Tendai (T'ien t'ai) schools of that day.
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:21 pm
Swordmaster Dragon My understanding of Vajrayana is pretty...infinitesimal compared to my understanding of Mahayana. But the allegory that was drawn out for me is that of the past, present, and future: Incorrect.Theravada believes in the Arhat way, the way of the historical Buddha in his life (past). This is correct.Mahayana believes in the Boddhisattva way, the way of the mystic Buddha, brought about a scant few hundred years after his death (present). False, there is a Theravadan assertion. Mahayana itself claims that it was the second turning of the wheel, taught to bodhisattvas such as Samantabhdra, Manjushri, Chenrezig, and Maitreya. All of these are Buddhas manifesting as bodhisattvas.Vajrayana believes in the cosmic Buddha, the pervasiveness of the Dharma in the time many years after the historical Buddha's death (future). Kalachakra empowerment was given to king Indrabhuti of Nepal when the Buddha was alive.
Saying something arose after Shakyamuni, and not spoken by him, has no lineage. Even master like Nagarjuna, Shantideva, and so on relied on teachings of the Buddha, some hidden, and some not hidden.
Of course, vajrayana itself does not go through Shakyamuni, but that is because it is a tantra system, and not sutra.
As far as I know, Vajrayana grew out of some more esoteric Mahayana traditions, but has come to establish itself as an entire subsection of Buddhism. Much of the philosophy coming from the Vajrayana schools, filtering into Southern China and Japan in the early 1400s, was markedly different from classical Mahayana texts, and was the root of influence for revisions made to the Zen (Chen) and Tendai (T'ien t'ai) schools of that day. No comment.Replies in bold. =)
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:07 pm
Swordmaster Dragon I believe both Zen and Pureland (Jodo) Buddhism are contained within the Mahayana tradition. At least, that's where they lie from a historical perspective. While the practices may differ from the parent schools, the belief in the Boddhisattva way are consistently present. I agree, my likely petty discomforts with Zen aside. They both belong to the Mahayana.
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