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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:15 pm
Ok, lets be completely fair.
Under a total libertarian system, you will get groups of power (ie: companies, religious groups, etc) which serve to restrict the freedoms of others for their own desires. This causes a net loss in freedom over the current - and unfortunately low - status quo. There's no point in having a government at all if people will be crushed under the heel of a modern day feudal lord.
The logical course is to limit the rights of organizations in order to preserve the freedom of the individual.
In addition, some socialist measures have a net positive effect for all people involved, such as how social security and the the TVA projects did wonders for the ailing economy and more than paid off their costs. I would have cited the panama canal's greater ease of trade, but that could have reasonably been done by a company.
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:58 pm
Tanasha Ok, lets be completely fair. Under a total libertarian system, you will get groups of power (ie: companies, religious groups, etc) which serve to restrict the freedoms of others for their own desires. This causes a net loss in freedom over the current - and unfortunately low - status quo. There's no point in having a government at all if people will be crushed under the heel of a modern day feudal lord. The logical course is to limit the rights of organizations in order to preserve the freedom of the individual. In addition, some socialist measures have a net positive effect for all people involved, such as how social security and the the TVA projects did wonders for the ailing economy and more than paid off their costs. I would have cited the panama canal's greater ease of trade, but that could have reasonably been done by a company. Still, it comes in turn that people become dependent upon these socialist measures. Thus you begin a drain on your capitalist sector, and if it doesn't go unchecked you will ultimately lead yourself into collapse as fewer and fewer people are paying in as more people begin to take out.
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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:30 pm
Jahoclave Tanasha Ok, lets be completely fair. Under a total libertarian system, you will get groups of power (ie: companies, religious groups, etc) which serve to restrict the freedoms of others for their own desires. This causes a net loss in freedom over the current - and unfortunately low - status quo. There's no point in having a government at all if people will be crushed under the heel of a modern day feudal lord. The logical course is to limit the rights of organizations in order to preserve the freedom of the individual. In addition, some socialist measures have a net positive effect for all people involved, such as how social security and the the TVA projects did wonders for the ailing economy and more than paid off their costs. I would have cited the panama canal's greater ease of trade, but that could have reasonably been done by a company. Still, it comes in turn that people become dependent upon these socialist measures. Thus you begin a drain on your capitalist sector, and if it doesn't go unchecked you will ultimately lead yourself into collapse as fewer and fewer people are paying in as more people begin to take out. ... and if you don't maintain your house, it will eventually collapse. Keeping things in check is required in all things, and government programs are certainly no exception. By the by, it's hard to have more and more people taking out and fewer and fewer people paying in without having a negative population growth, which has far more severe consequences than social security itself could ever cause.
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:20 am
Tanasha Jahoclave Tanasha Ok, lets be completely fair. Under a total libertarian system, you will get groups of power (ie: companies, religious groups, etc) which serve to restrict the freedoms of others for their own desires. This causes a net loss in freedom over the current - and unfortunately low - status quo. There's no point in having a government at all if people will be crushed under the heel of a modern day feudal lord. The logical course is to limit the rights of organizations in order to preserve the freedom of the individual. In addition, some socialist measures have a net positive effect for all people involved, such as how social security and the the TVA projects did wonders for the ailing economy and more than paid off their costs. I would have cited the panama canal's greater ease of trade, but that could have reasonably been done by a company. Still, it comes in turn that people become dependent upon these socialist measures. Thus you begin a drain on your capitalist sector, and if it doesn't go unchecked you will ultimately lead yourself into collapse as fewer and fewer people are paying in as more people begin to take out. ... and if you don't maintain your house, it will eventually collapse. Keeping things in check is required in all things, and government programs are certainly no exception. By the by, it's hard to have more and more people taking out and fewer and fewer people paying in without having a negative population growth, which has far more severe consequences than social security itself could ever cause. Yes, but once you start taking too much, richer people leave. Britian had problems with this a few years ago I do believe. You can only punish people for being rich so much.
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Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:45 pm
Jahoclave Tanasha ... and if you don't maintain your house, it will eventually collapse. Keeping things in check is required in all things, and government programs are certainly no exception. By the by, it's hard to have more and more people taking out and fewer and fewer people paying in without having a negative population growth, which has far more severe consequences than social security itself could ever cause. Yes, but once you start taking too much, richer people leave. Britian had problems with this a few years ago I do believe. You can only punish people for being rich so much. Again, the balance must be maintained; running a government isn't a job for people who don't want to put forth the effort required to keep things running smoothly and efficiently.
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