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 Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:11 pm
Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine quietstorm 2 As fleshly imperfect beings we don't always know what we need to pray for. The gift of tongues is a form of correct communication with GOD. The Spirit interceeds for us, knowing what lays ahead. Durning and sometimes after prayer in tongues I have some understanding of the subject matter ( and not always right away) which I guess is another gift. As far as being sure, I can only say I have learned to trust and have faith in my maker. If you think about the air we breath, we can't see it yet we take it in and know that when we stop the process, death will come; so we continue to breath in and out not SURELY knowing or seeing how our next inhalation will affect our bodies, but we continue the process a form of trust or faith. There are some things we just trust. That may work for you, but I cannot just pray in some language or made up language that I don't understand and be able to trust that I am not saying some awful word, or making some covenant that cannot be undone, or unbinding a covenant that I have made. Also, I cannot pray in a language and be able to trust that I am even speaking in a real language. Can you trust the Holy Ghost to guide you, were you speaking in tongues? And here's a site that really explains tongues, for anyone who's reallly curious: http://www.gloriouschurch.com/html/Speaking-In-Tongues-In-The-Church.asp Quote: Paul goes on to say in the 14th chapter, “For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries” (v.2). Here we can see the usefulness of speaking in tongues as a prayer language. In our human limitations, we may not always know what we need to pray about—but God always knows. When we pray in another tongue as the Spirit gives utterance, we can be assured that we are speaking to God and that He understands what we are saying, even though we may not understand. I don't have the gift of tongues so I don't pray in it. I guess what I am trying to get at here is that why would you want to pray in an unknown language that no one, not even you understands? God is not a God of confusion and when people bust out praying in this gregorian chant like prayer, it makes those around them wonder what the heck? And then when they are asked what they just said the person who prayed like that cannot reply...That right there makes me think that that form of praying is not from God. God never says we're supposd to completely understand Him. God's ways are not man's ways, remember? He may not be a God of confusion, but that doesn't mean your never gonna face confusion when following Him, like the fact He's not a God of pain doesn't mean there aren't any martyrs who have suffered for Him.
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:25 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine quietstorm 2 As fleshly imperfect beings we don't always know what we need to pray for. The gift of tongues is a form of correct communication with GOD. The Spirit interceeds for us, knowing what lays ahead. Durning and sometimes after prayer in tongues I have some understanding of the subject matter ( and not always right away) which I guess is another gift. As far as being sure, I can only say I have learned to trust and have faith in my maker. If you think about the air we breath, we can't see it yet we take it in and know that when we stop the process, death will come; so we continue to breath in and out not SURELY knowing or seeing how our next inhalation will affect our bodies, but we continue the process a form of trust or faith. There are some things we just trust. That may work for you, but I cannot just pray in some language or made up language that I don't understand and be able to trust that I am not saying some awful word, or making some covenant that cannot be undone, or unbinding a covenant that I have made. Also, I cannot pray in a language and be able to trust that I am even speaking in a real language. Can you trust the Holy Ghost to guide you, were you speaking in tongues? And here's a site that really explains tongues, for anyone who's reallly curious: http://www.gloriouschurch.com/html/Speaking-In-Tongues-In-The-Church.asp Quote: Paul goes on to say in the 14th chapter, “For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries” (v.2). Here we can see the usefulness of speaking in tongues as a prayer language. In our human limitations, we may not always know what we need to pray about—but God always knows. When we pray in another tongue as the Spirit gives utterance, we can be assured that we are speaking to God and that He understands what we are saying, even though we may not understand. I don't have the gift of tongues so I don't pray in it. I guess what I am trying to get at here is that why would you want to pray in an unknown language that no one, not even you understands? God is not a God of confusion and when people bust out praying in this gregorian chant like prayer, it makes those around them wonder what the heck? And then when they are asked what they just said the person who prayed like that cannot reply...That right there makes me think that that form of praying is not from God. God never says we're supposd to completely understand Him. God's ways are not man's ways, remember? He may not be a God of confusion, but that doesn't mean your never gonna face confusion when following Him, like the fact He's not a God of pain doesn't mean there aren't any martyrs who have suffered for Him. Yes I realize that, but to me it sounds like you are trying to rationalize this gift. The point that I am trying to make is that if God is not a God of confusion, why is it that He would supposedly grant a gift to some one to use that no one can understand at all. And also, God's ways are relatively simple, we as humans tend to complicate them, so by using this "gift of tongues" as protestants define it( that is the sect I am most familiar with besides my own religion), seems to be so complicated. Which is why I don't agree that their interpretation of it is in fact a true gift of God. (Forgive me if you do not understand what I am trying to say. I will try and explain better if you didn't catch what I was trying to say... sweatdrop )
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:28 pm
Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine That may work for you, but I cannot just pray in some language or made up language that I don't understand and be able to trust that I am not saying some awful word, or making some covenant that cannot be undone, or unbinding a covenant that I have made. Also, I cannot pray in a language and be able to trust that I am even speaking in a real language. Can you trust the Holy Ghost to guide you, were you speaking in tongues? And here's a site that really explains tongues, for anyone who's reallly curious: http://www.gloriouschurch.com/html/Speaking-In-Tongues-In-The-Church.asp Quote: Paul goes on to say in the 14th chapter, “For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries” (v.2). Here we can see the usefulness of speaking in tongues as a prayer language. In our human limitations, we may not always know what we need to pray about—but God always knows. When we pray in another tongue as the Spirit gives utterance, we can be assured that we are speaking to God and that He understands what we are saying, even though we may not understand. I don't have the gift of tongues so I don't pray in it. I guess what I am trying to get at here is that why would you want to pray in an unknown language that no one, not even you understands? God is not a God of confusion and when people bust out praying in this gregorian chant like prayer, it makes those around them wonder what the heck? And then when they are asked what they just said the person who prayed like that cannot reply...That right there makes me think that that form of praying is not from God. God never says we're supposd to completely understand Him. God's ways are not man's ways, remember? He may not be a God of confusion, but that doesn't mean your never gonna face confusion when following Him, like the fact He's not a God of pain doesn't mean there aren't any martyrs who have suffered for Him. Yes I realize that, but to me it sounds like you are trying to rationalize this gift. The point that I am trying to make is that if God is not a God of confusion, why is it that He would supposedly grant a gift to some one to use that no one can understand at all. And also, God's ways are relatively simple, we as humans tend to complicate them, so by using this "gift of tongues" as protestants define it( that is the sect I am most familiar with besides my own religion), seems to be so complicated. Which is why I don't agree that their interpretation of it is in fact a true gift of God. (Forgive me if you do not understand what I am trying to say. I will try and explain better if you didn't catch what I was trying to say... sweatdrop ) I may be trying to rationalize it, but there's nothing wrong with that. When something isn't clear, that's what people tend to do. I'm not sure...maybe it's stronger then regular prayer, or maybe it's a way of letting the Holy Spirit guide us. God created the universe. He's definetly capable of complexity, and I doubt all HIS ways are simple and easy to understand. If you can figure out God, then He's not God. (I think I got it, but let me know if I misunderstood. sweatdrop )
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:02 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Can you trust the Holy Ghost to guide you, were you speaking in tongues? And here's a site that really explains tongues, for anyone who's reallly curious: http://www.gloriouschurch.com/html/Speaking-In-Tongues-In-The-Church.asp ~from the siteI don't have the gift of tongues so I don't pray in it. I guess what I am trying to get at here is that why would you want to pray in an unknown language that no one, not even you understands? God is not a God of confusion and when people bust out praying in this gregorian chant like prayer, it makes those around them wonder what the heck? And then when they are asked what they just said the person who prayed like that cannot reply...That right there makes me think that that form of praying is not from God. God never says we're supposd to completely understand Him. God's ways are not man's ways, remember? He may not be a God of confusion, but that doesn't mean your never gonna face confusion when following Him, like the fact He's not a God of pain doesn't mean there aren't any martyrs who have suffered for Him. Yes I realize that, but to me it sounds like you are trying to rationalize this gift. The point that I am trying to make is that if God is not a God of confusion, why is it that He would supposedly grant a gift to some one to use that no one can understand at all. And also, God's ways are relatively simple, we as humans tend to complicate them, so by using this "gift of tongues" as protestants define it( that is the sect I am most familiar with besides my own religion), seems to be so complicated. Which is why I don't agree that their interpretation of it is in fact a true gift of God. (Forgive me if you do not understand what I am trying to say. I will try and explain better if you didn't catch what I was trying to say... sweatdrop ) I may be trying to rationalize it, but there's nothing wrong with that. When something isn't clear, that's what people tend to do. I'm not sure...maybe it's stronger then regular prayer, or maybe it's a way of letting the Holy Spirit guide us. God created the universe. He's definetly capable of complexity, and I doubt all HIS ways are simple and easy to understand. If you can figure out God, then He's not God. (I think I got it, but let me know if I misunderstood. sweatdrop ) I wasn't saying that God Himself isn't complex nor is His creation. I know there is vast complexity within those two, but I am talking about complication of His commandments. God is not complicated in the sense that every gift, commandment, etc. He gives us cannot be understood, because I believe it can. Which is why I struggle with the interpretion of the gift of tongues that protestants have. When you look throughout scripture the commandments are fairly simple and easy to understand, as well as the options we are given in life. We are either for or against God. We choose to obey the commandments or we don't. The same goes for gifts. God bestows a gift on us, we may not understand why at the time, but we can understand the gift. If praying in this unknown or made up language is a way of letting the Holy Ghost guide you, why in a different language? That's where I state that God is not a God of confusion. If, to effectively let the Holy Ghost be a companion to some one in prayer, is to have them pray in a different language that they don't even know what they are saying, to me that is not of God. Because one, it sounds like, from the explanations I've received that one just starts praying like this against their will, with out knowing what they're are saying, what they're are binding/unbinding, what covenants they're breaking/forming, etc.
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Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:28 pm
Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx Can you trust the Holy Ghost to guide you, were you speaking in tongues? And here's a site that really explains tongues, for anyone who's reallly curious: http://www.gloriouschurch.com/html/Speaking-In-Tongues-In-The-Church.asp ~from the siteI don't have the gift of tongues so I don't pray in it. I guess what I am trying to get at here is that why would you want to pray in an unknown language that no one, not even you understands? God is not a God of confusion and when people bust out praying in this gregorian chant like prayer, it makes those around them wonder what the heck? And then when they are asked what they just said the person who prayed like that cannot reply...That right there makes me think that that form of praying is not from God. God never says we're supposd to completely understand Him. God's ways are not man's ways, remember? He may not be a God of confusion, but that doesn't mean your never gonna face confusion when following Him, like the fact He's not a God of pain doesn't mean there aren't any martyrs who have suffered for Him. Yes I realize that, but to me it sounds like you are trying to rationalize this gift. The point that I am trying to make is that if God is not a God of confusion, why is it that He would supposedly grant a gift to some one to use that no one can understand at all. And also, God's ways are relatively simple, we as humans tend to complicate them, so by using this "gift of tongues" as protestants define it( that is the sect I am most familiar with besides my own religion), seems to be so complicated. Which is why I don't agree that their interpretation of it is in fact a true gift of God. (Forgive me if you do not understand what I am trying to say. I will try and explain better if you didn't catch what I was trying to say... sweatdrop ) I may be trying to rationalize it, but there's nothing wrong with that. When something isn't clear, that's what people tend to do. I'm not sure...maybe it's stronger then regular prayer, or maybe it's a way of letting the Holy Spirit guide us. God created the universe. He's definetly capable of complexity, and I doubt all HIS ways are simple and easy to understand. If you can figure out God, then He's not God. (I think I got it, but let me know if I misunderstood. sweatdrop ) I wasn't saying that God Himself isn't complex nor is His creation. I know there is vast complexity within those two, but I am talking about complication of His commandments. God is not complicated in the sense that every gift, commandment, etc. He gives us cannot be understood, because I believe it can. Which is why I struggle with the interpretion of the gift of tongues that protestants have. When you look throughout scripture the commandments are fairly simple and easy to understand, as well as the options we are given in life. We are either for or against God. We choose to obey the commandments or we don't. The same goes for gifts. God bestows a gift on us, we may not understand why at the time, but we can understand the gift. If praying in this unknown or made up language is a way of letting the Holy Ghost guide you, why in a different language? That's where I state that God is not a God of confusion. If, to effectively let the Holy Ghost be a companion to some one in prayer, is to have them pray in a different language that they don't even know what they are saying, to me that is not of God. Because one, it sounds like, from the explanations I've received that one just starts praying like this against their will, with out knowing what they're are saying, what they're are binding/unbinding, what covenants they're breaking/forming, etc. Most can be understood, I think, but not all. When you're a child, you don't comprehend everything your parents do, do you? Despite this, you understand it's for your good. It's the same principle. Why is it necessary to understand every gift? You don't necessarily understand a prophecy or a vision or how healing occurs. Shouldn't we trust Him? I can understand your worry, but you'd be giving control over to Him. We're supposed to trust Him with every area in our life, so trusting Him to guide our prayers occasionally isn't a stretch.
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:32 am
xxEternallyBluexx Most can be understood, I think, but not all. When you're a child, you don't comprehend everything your parents do, do you? Despite this, you understand it's for your good. It's the same principle. Nope I don't understand every thing my parent's do, but that's because they aren't the same religion as I am. And even when I was protestant, everything was already so confusing and I couldn't get a straight answer from any one, I stopped asking. Quote: Why is it necessary to understand every gift? It's necessary so we know how to use them properly. And because the Devil can give gifts too Quote: You don't necessarily understand a prophecy or a vision or how healing occurs. Just depends on how much study I've put into the particualr prophecy or vision, and whether or not I want to understand it. . And the healing occurs by the power of God. Of course Quote: I can understand your worry, but you'd be giving control over to Him. I have given Him control, but He doesn't take away my agency in the process. Quote: We're supposed to trust Him with every area in our life, so trusting Him to guide our prayers occasionally isn't a stretch. I trust Him to guide me in my prayers, but by doing that, it doesn't make me speak in some chant like rythem or some made up, unknown language.
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:55 am
Hopefully this might answer some question that seem to exist, the book of Romans, chapter 6 might explain some things concerning the spirit interceeding for man. Different gifts were given to different people and it's just like the human body it's made up of many different parts but working together it functions as a whole or one. If one can speak and another interprets then it comes together. I remember the in the bible it gave instructions about the appropriet time to speak in tonges while in the presence of non or new believers. The Spirit has a way of guiding us on our missions.
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:02 pm
quietstorm 2 Hopefully this might answer some question that seem to exist, the book of Romans, chapter 6 might explain some things concerning the spirit interceeding for man. Different gifts were given to different people and it's just like the human body it's made up of many different parts but working together it functions as a whole or one. If one can speak and another interprets then it comes together. I remember the in the bible it gave instructions about the appropriet time to speak in tonges while in the presence of non or new believers. The Spirit has a way of guiding us on our missions. I know the Holy Ghost will intercede for us when we need Him to, but I don't think that will cause us to break into some chant like language that no one, not even the speaker understands. And the Bible says that if you are going to speak in a different language (tongue) then you need to have an interpreter present or you are to do it in private. I believe the gift of tongues is a very real gift, but I don't agree with the protestant interpretation of it.
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:02 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Shadows-shine xxEternallyBluexx To tell the truth, I'm not sure I'm actually supposed to do it until after I've been baptized. sweatdrop According to my mom it is supposed to be a real language, you don't know what you're saying (I didn't, and she's said she doesn't either), but I've also heard interpretation of tongues is a gift. So a question then, if you really don't know what you are saying how do you know what covenants you are making, what you are binding, what you are unbinding, etc.? Are you really sure you are praying to God when you speak in tongues? Are you really sure you're not just speaking some gibberish that's not even real? I also want to know how praying in some language that you don't understand is supposed to some how bring you closer to Heavenly Father? You trust God, and you're probably praying in a spiritual tongue.
"Probably?"
Where did you get that?
"Probably" is a term that does not belong in a religious discussion.
Speaking in Toungues is total B.S. It is propagated by those fanatics who start praying in gibberrish and then say that G-d made them do it when it was really just them.
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Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:10 pm
i have friends for whom it is very meaningful.
to me it sometimes sounds spontaneous but sometimes sounds forced and fake.
a mentor of mine told me how he was sad that he did not have the gift, and prayed to God for the granting of a "prayer language".
God answered him directly, and said "i have already given you a prayer language. it's called "English"".
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