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Twizted Humanitarian Crew
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 Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:34 pm
Sith_Master_Steve FubarRedFerret No, the 2 party system is a bad idea. If there are 2 parties they will naturally be polar opposites of each other on every issue. I prefer the 1 and a half party system. Where one party has control, and numerous small parties are there for shits and giggles, and to give the impression of democracy. Ummmm no. 2 Party System is good, it shouldn't have anymore, We Don;t want to be like Italy and have 66+ Parties. wow thats alot but how many of those are majority parties?
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:02 pm
Priestess_Kelina 1: Why the obsession over wealth? Does everyone in poverty need to become super rich, with an excess of money, for capitalism to be succesful? I would be far more impressed if a large number of people in poverty made it to middle class than elite upper class. I asked for a Definition of Wealthy along ago here, and yet I received no answer. I think if someone on Poverty got off his a** and did something I'd Respect him/her. Priestess_Kelina 2: Success is achieved NOT through hard work, but through WISE MONEY MANAGEMENT, even if it leads to obvious signs of poverty. For example, a van is cheaper than an apartment, so a person in poverty might give up the apartment and move into a van. This would save money, which if used wisely, could mean more food on the table, or better clothes, which could lead to finding a better job. Obvioulsy, a van is not suitable for families, but even for them, there are alternatives, though none come to mind at the moment. Another way to save money would be to buy a bicycle, and ride to and from work, rather than pay almost $3:00 a gallon for gas. Even a faraway job could be reached on a bike, one would simply have to get up earlier. Success is ahcieved not through making more money, but through making more of the money you DO have, even if it requires unconventional thinking. They go Hand in Hand. EX: I go to a two year school(I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Priestess_Kelina 3: One must recognize that Government plays a role in producing poverty. Even low taxes hurt those who have very little money to begin with. Also, some ways in which one could make money are illeagal. Right or wrong, the fact is that if ones primary source of income is through the drug trade, it gets kinda hard to escape from poverty, because you have to be carful with your ill gotten gains. Money that can't be used to make your life more comfortable is money you might as well not even have. One could theoretically reduce poverty by leagalizing the drug trade, and thus, creating more jobs though which to make money. Same goes for prostitution. I don't know this for a fact, but I THINK most people in the drug and prostituion trades are in poverty, and using this money to meet their basic needs. LOL Not the Drug Dealers I know, (I am not talking about he High School ones) They sure ain't living in Poverty. EX: Watch Scarface Same with Pimps, they ain't in poverty. Priestess_Kelina To sum up my position, hard work is pretty much irrelavent to your financial status. One can work VERY hard at setting up a drug ring, only to have it come to nothing, but a long sentance in prison. On the other hand, one can work almost not at all, and still be successful if they spend their money wisely. And one does not have to be RICH to be successful. One simply has to be able to meet all their basic needs, and they're a success story in my book. No, Hard Work and Success go hand and hand.
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:05 pm
Jungle Soldier Sith_Master_Steve FubarRedFerret No, the 2 party system is a bad idea. If there are 2 parties they will naturally be polar opposites of each other on every issue. I prefer the 1 and a half party system. Where one party has control, and numerous small parties are there for shits and giggles, and to give the impression of democracy. Ummmm no. 2 Party System is good, it shouldn't have anymore, We Don;t want to be like Italy and have 66+ Parties. wow thats alot but how many of those are majority parties? With that many parties, in a way they are all Minor Parties.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:21 am
Sith_Master_Steve Priestess_Kelina 1: Why the obsession over wealth? Does everyone in poverty need to become super rich, with an excess of money, for capitalism to be succesful? I would be far more impressed if a large number of people in poverty made it to middle class than elite upper class. I asked for a Definition of Wealthy along ago here, and yet I received no answer. I think if someone on Poverty got off his a** and did something I'd Respect him/her. Priestess_Kelina 2: Success is achieved NOT through hard work, but through WISE MONEY MANAGEMENT, even if it leads to obvious signs of poverty. For example, a van is cheaper than an apartment, so a person in poverty might give up the apartment and move into a van. This would save money, which if used wisely, could mean more food on the table, or better clothes, which could lead to finding a better job. Obvioulsy, a van is not suitable for families, but even for them, there are alternatives, though none come to mind at the moment. Another way to save money would be to buy a bicycle, and ride to and from work, rather than pay almost $3:00 a gallon for gas. Even a faraway job could be reached on a bike, one would simply have to get up earlier. Success is ahcieved not through making more money, but through making more of the money you DO have, even if it requires unconventional thinking. They go Hand in Hand. EX: I go to a two year school(I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Priestess_Kelina 3: One must recognize that Government plays a role in producing poverty. Even low taxes hurt those who have very little money to begin with. Also, some ways in which one could make money are illeagal. Right or wrong, the fact is that if ones primary source of income is through the drug trade, it gets kinda hard to escape from poverty, because you have to be carful with your ill gotten gains. Money that can't be used to make your life more comfortable is money you might as well not even have. One could theoretically reduce poverty by leagalizing the drug trade, and thus, creating more jobs though which to make money. Same goes for prostitution. I don't know this for a fact, but I THINK most people in the drug and prostituion trades are in poverty, and using this money to meet their basic needs. LOL Not the Drug Dealers I know, (I am not talking about he High School ones) They sure ain't living in Poverty. EX: Watch Scarface Same with Pimps, they ain't in poverty. Then you clearly don't know any drug dealers, especially if you put Scarface forwards as an example. Scarface is completly unrealistic with so many screw ups in it. But that's ok because it's a MOVIE. We're talking about real life. Most drug dealers live where their buyers live i.e. the ghetto. Here's a better example- go read The Autobiography of Malcolm X. He used to be in pimping and screwing with drugs, and he was poor. Priestess_Kelina To sum up my position, hard work is pretty much irrelavent to your financial status. One can work VERY hard at setting up a drug ring, only to have it come to nothing, but a long sentance in prison. On the other hand, one can work almost not at all, and still be successful if they spend their money wisely. And one does not have to be RICH to be successful. One simply has to be able to meet all their basic needs, and they're a success story in my book. Sith_Master_Steve No, Hard Work and Success go hand and hand. No they don't! Do you listen at all? Here- I know tons of people who have worked extremly hard in two factory or dock or hard labor jobs their entire lives (this means over 40 years), and none of them are rich or what you would deem "succesful". Yet their boss, who was born rich and has never worked a hard day in his life is "successful". They've all been hurt on the job, they're all above the age of 45, they all work at least 12 hours a day every day (including weekends except sunday where they work around 10 hours). They've been working hard at it for years, and they aren't "successful".
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:23 am
Sith_Master_Steve Jungle Soldier Sith_Master_Steve FubarRedFerret No, the 2 party system is a bad idea. If there are 2 parties they will naturally be polar opposites of each other on every issue. I prefer the 1 and a half party system. Where one party has control, and numerous small parties are there for shits and giggles, and to give the impression of democracy. Ummmm no. 2 Party System is good, it shouldn't have anymore, We Don;t want to be like Italy and have 66+ Parties. wow thats alot but how many of those are majority parties? With that many parties, in a way they are all Minor Parties. Except that they aren't. Whoever has the most support is a majority party, regardless of how small that support is.
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:21 pm
The Leninator! Sith_Master_Steve Priestess_Kelina 1: Why the obsession over wealth? Does everyone in poverty need to become super rich, with an excess of money, for capitalism to be succesful? I would be far more impressed if a large number of people in poverty made it to middle class than elite upper class. I asked for a Definition of Wealthy along ago here, and yet I received no answer. I think if someone on Poverty got off his a** and did something I'd Respect him/her. Priestess_Kelina 2: Success is achieved NOT through hard work, but through WISE MONEY MANAGEMENT, even if it leads to obvious signs of poverty. For example, a van is cheaper than an apartment, so a person in poverty might give up the apartment and move into a van. This would save money, which if used wisely, could mean more food on the table, or better clothes, which could lead to finding a better job. Obvioulsy, a van is not suitable for families, but even for them, there are alternatives, though none come to mind at the moment. Another way to save money would be to buy a bicycle, and ride to and from work, rather than pay almost $3:00 a gallon for gas. Even a faraway job could be reached on a bike, one would simply have to get up earlier. Success is ahcieved not through making more money, but through making more of the money you DO have, even if it requires unconventional thinking. They go Hand in Hand. EX: I go to a two year school(I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Priestess_Kelina 3: One must recognize that Government plays a role in producing poverty. Even low taxes hurt those who have very little money to begin with. Also, some ways in which one could make money are illeagal. Right or wrong, the fact is that if ones primary source of income is through the drug trade, it gets kinda hard to escape from poverty, because you have to be carful with your ill gotten gains. Money that can't be used to make your life more comfortable is money you might as well not even have. One could theoretically reduce poverty by leagalizing the drug trade, and thus, creating more jobs though which to make money. Same goes for prostitution. I don't know this for a fact, but I THINK most people in the drug and prostituion trades are in poverty, and using this money to meet their basic needs. LOL Not the Drug Dealers I know, (I am not talking about he High School ones) They sure ain't living in Poverty. EX: Watch Scarface Same with Pimps, they ain't in poverty. Then you clearly don't know any drug dealers, especially if you put Scarface forwards as an example. Scarface is completly unrealistic with so many screw ups in it. But that's ok because it's a MOVIE. We're talking about real life. Most drug dealers live where their buyers live i.e. the ghetto. Here's a better example- go read The Autobiography of Malcolm X. He used to be in pimping and screwing with drugs, and he was poor. Dude, I live around New York City, where I live in my neighborhood I live down the street from 3-4 Different Drug Dealers. Everyone of them is around our age 16-25. Everyone of them Drive way better Cars than their parents who work 40+ hour Jobs. I am talking Hummers, SUVs, Mustangs, and Corvettes, and all of them are all paid off too.. These cars are maxed out to got leather interior, and 1,000+ in Stereo Equipment. If One of my Buddies at a Community college who went in and out of prison, because he was a drug dealer. He showed me his Bank account, (750,000+) and he makes around 250,000+ a year. He owns 5 houses in New York, 2 Houses Down South, and 3 Kick a** 100,000 Dollar Choppers (Motorcycles) One more thing Scarface is not Completely Unrealistic! Scarface is based on the Life of Al Capone. See the end of the Credits if you don't believe me. Scarface is a remake of a 1932 movie based on his life. Al Capone Lived it up, he was a Drug dealer of sorts, He made alcohol during the prohibition, alcohol was illegal, tell me how is that different from a Drug Dealer today? Al Capone also prostitution rackets in the city of Chicago, how is that different from a pimp? Al Capone Lived it up. Harder work, and Smarter Money Management. Seeing how his line of work was highly Illegal! Al Capone BioThe Leninator! Sith_Master_Steve Priestess_Kelina To sum up my position, hard work is pretty much irrelavent to your financial status. One can work VERY hard at setting up a drug ring, only to have it come to nothing, but a long sentance in prison. On the other hand, one can work almost not at all, and still be successful if they spend their money wisely. And one does not have to be RICH to be successful. One simply has to be able to meet all their basic needs, and they're a success story in my book. No, Hard Work and Success go hand and hand. No they don't! Do you listen at all? Here- I know tons of people who have worked extremly hard in two factory or dock or hard labor jobs their entire lives (this means over 40 years), and none of them are rich or what you would deem "succesful". Yet their boss, who was born rich and has never worked a hard day in his life is "successful". They've all been hurt on the job, they're all above the age of 45, they all work at least 12 hours a day every day (including weekends except sunday where they work around 10 hours). They've been working hard at it for years, and they aren't "successful". Your Communist Rhetoric ain't going to work on me at all! I never said that people who at factories or docks do not work hard at all. If you had any common sense at all, you'd realize that the people who are in college, and become more educated; then they will get the higher jobs, and make more money those who don't. I hope that Statement didn't shock you at all. I am sure if they work 10-12 hours a day, I am sure that they can make enough money further their education. They can go to a dirt cheap two year school, and transfer to a four year school, or even go to a trade school. I have a guy in my class who saved money working on the docks for 5 years, and he has enough money to get his 4 year degree, and he has 2 kids, and is married. You Jumped over the argument completely, I said Money Management, and hard work go hand and hand. I used this for an example. EX: I go to a two year school (I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a. I also Save lots of money by going here.), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Seeing how no one here gave me a definition, or an amount of wealthy. None of us really know what it is. "boss' being born rich, I dunno about you, but lemme give you a brief history on my old man. He was born in Jersey, with only his sister, and mother. They lived in a Small 3 bedroom house. He worked on Rinky dink jobs like 'Shoveling horse s**t, on a farm' making $3.00 an hour'. He owned 2 cars before he graduated high school. My Father went to Rutgers to major in engineering. He commuted to save money. He graduated in Rutgers with a 3.8 G.P.A. He then started working in GE which made him relocate to Syracuse, New York. In 1986 my father still working for GE went to Syracuse University to get his MBA. He completed his MBA in 1989. While working at G.E. and going to school. Currently my Father works two jobs as a 'boss'. He didn't come from a rich family. Whether or not you believe that or not, I have a history on Andrew Carnegie. I'll re-give you the history on why he is remembered today. Andrew Carnegie was from a poor immigrant family from Scotland. He worked his way up, and did jobs here and there. Example: In 1851, he became a telegraph messenger boy in the Pittsburgh Office of the Ohio Telegraph Company, at $2.50 per week. Every cent he had made, he invested it. These investments were in railroads, railroad sleeping cars, as well as bridges and oil derricks, and he built his wealth as a bond salesman raising money in Europe for American enterprises. He Created an Empire from Steel. I got this from my Text book, and Notes From Class. I'm a History, Political Science, Geography Major. Carnegie Bio 1Carnegie Bio 2Look up others too! John D. RockefellerHenry FordCarlos Slim Helú Man Who is Richer than Bill Gates as of 8/2007Warren Buffett Ingvar KampradThere you have it Money Management and Hard Work. One thing I am going to be blunt with, is that Rhetoric, ain't going to work on me. I've stated many Facts, and Sources to try back up my claim. Please Give me Facts not Rhetoric! I don't have to listen to Rhetoric! Rhetoric is Opinion! It is not Fact at all, Why should I accept it? Remember this Quote from, Siddhartha, by Herman Hesse, Page 41 'Opinions are completely unimportant, whether if they are beautiful or ugly, clever or foolish; anyone could adhere them or reject them' Siddhartha Preview
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:22 pm
Well, the Electorial College is partly to blame as well. There has to be a landslide of votes to give third parties even a hope of a chance. That has only happened about once or twice.
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Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:23 pm
Sith_Master_Steve The Leninator! Sith_Master_Steve Priestess_Kelina 1: Why the obsession over wealth? Does everyone in poverty need to become super rich, with an excess of money, for capitalism to be succesful? I would be far more impressed if a large number of people in poverty made it to middle class than elite upper class. I asked for a Definition of Wealthy along ago here, and yet I received no answer. I think if someone on Poverty got off his a** and did something I'd Respect him/her. Priestess_Kelina 2: Success is achieved NOT through hard work, but through WISE MONEY MANAGEMENT, even if it leads to obvious signs of poverty. For example, a van is cheaper than an apartment, so a person in poverty might give up the apartment and move into a van. This would save money, which if used wisely, could mean more food on the table, or better clothes, which could lead to finding a better job. Obvioulsy, a van is not suitable for families, but even for them, there are alternatives, though none come to mind at the moment. Another way to save money would be to buy a bicycle, and ride to and from work, rather than pay almost $3:00 a gallon for gas. Even a faraway job could be reached on a bike, one would simply have to get up earlier. Success is ahcieved not through making more money, but through making more of the money you DO have, even if it requires unconventional thinking. They go Hand in Hand. EX: I go to a two year school(I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Priestess_Kelina 3: One must recognize that Government plays a role in producing poverty. Even low taxes hurt those who have very little money to begin with. Also, some ways in which one could make money are illeagal. Right or wrong, the fact is that if ones primary source of income is through the drug trade, it gets kinda hard to escape from poverty, because you have to be carful with your ill gotten gains. Money that can't be used to make your life more comfortable is money you might as well not even have. One could theoretically reduce poverty by leagalizing the drug trade, and thus, creating more jobs though which to make money. Same goes for prostitution. I don't know this for a fact, but I THINK most people in the drug and prostituion trades are in poverty, and using this money to meet their basic needs. LOL Not the Drug Dealers I know, (I am not talking about he High School ones) They sure ain't living in Poverty. EX: Watch Scarface Same with Pimps, they ain't in poverty. Then you clearly don't know any drug dealers, especially if you put Scarface forwards as an example. Scarface is completly unrealistic with so many screw ups in it. But that's ok because it's a MOVIE. We're talking about real life. Most drug dealers live where their buyers live i.e. the ghetto. Here's a better example- go read The Autobiography of Malcolm X. He used to be in pimping and screwing with drugs, and he was poor. Dude, I live around New York City, where I live in my neighborhood I live down the street from 3-4 Different Drug Dealers. Everyone of them is around our age 16-25. Everyone of them Drive way better Cars than their parents who work 40+ hour Jobs. I am talking Hummers, SUVs, Mustangs, and Corvettes, and all of them are all paid off too.. These cars are maxed out to got leather interior, and 1,000+ in Stereo Equipment. If One of my Buddies at a Community college who went in and out of prison, because he was a drug dealer. He showed me his Bank account, (750,000+) and he makes around 250,000+ a year. He owns 5 houses in New York, 2 Houses Down South, and 3 Kick a** 100,000 Dollar Choppers (Motorcycles) One more thing Scarface is not Completely Unrealistic! Scarface is based on the Life of Al Capone. See the end of the Credits if you don't believe me. Scarface is a remake of a 1932 movie based on his life. Al Capone Lived it up, he was a Drug dealer of sorts, He made alcohol during the prohibition, alcohol was illegal, tell me how is that different from a Drug Dealer today? Al Capone also prostitution rackets in the city of Chicago, how is that different from a pimp? Al Capone Lived it up. Harder work, and Smarter Money Management. Seeing how his line of work was highly Illegal! Al Capone BioThe Leninator! Sith_Master_Steve Priestess_Kelina To sum up my position, hard work is pretty much irrelavent to your financial status. One can work VERY hard at setting up a drug ring, only to have it come to nothing, but a long sentance in prison. On the other hand, one can work almost not at all, and still be successful if they spend their money wisely. And one does not have to be RICH to be successful. One simply has to be able to meet all their basic needs, and they're a success story in my book. No, Hard Work and Success go hand and hand. No they don't! Do you listen at all? Here- I know tons of people who have worked extremly hard in two factory or dock or hard labor jobs their entire lives (this means over 40 years), and none of them are rich or what you would deem "succesful". Yet their boss, who was born rich and has never worked a hard day in his life is "successful". They've all been hurt on the job, they're all above the age of 45, they all work at least 12 hours a day every day (including weekends except sunday where they work around 10 hours). They've been working hard at it for years, and they aren't "successful". Your Communist Rhetoric ain't going to work on me at all! I never said that people who at factories or docks do not work hard at all. If you had any common sense at all, you'd realize that the people who are in college, and become more educated; then they will get the higher jobs, and make more money those who don't. I hope that Statement didn't shock you at all. I am sure if they work 10-12 hours a day, I am sure that they can make enough money further their education. They can go to a dirt cheap two year school, and transfer to a four year school, or even go to a trade school. I have a guy in my class who saved money working on the docks for 5 years, and he has enough money to get his 4 year degree, and he has 2 kids, and is married. You Jumped over the argument completely, I said Money Management, and hard work go hand and hand. I used this for an example. EX: I go to a two year school (I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a. I also Save lots of money by going here.), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Seeing how no one here gave me a definition, or an amount of wealthy. None of us really know what it is. "boss' being born rich, I dunno about you, but lemme give you a brief history on my old man. He was born in Jersey, with only his sister, and mother. They lived in a Small 3 bedroom house. He worked on Rinky dink jobs like 'Shoveling horse s**t, on a farm' making $3.00 an hour'. He owned 2 cars before he graduated high school. My Father went to Rutgers to major in engineering. He commuted to save money. He graduated in Rutgers with a 3.8 G.P.A. He then started working in GE which made him relocate to Syracuse, New York. In 1986 my father still working for GE went to Syracuse University to get his MBA. He completed his MBA in 1989. While working at G.E. and going to school. Currently my Father works two jobs as a 'boss'. He didn't come from a rich family. Whether or not you believe that or not, I have a history on Andrew Carnegie. I'll re-give you the history on why he is remembered today. Andrew Carnegie was from a poor immigrant family from Scotland. He worked his way up, and did jobs here and there. Example: In 1851, he became a telegraph messenger boy in the Pittsburgh Office of the Ohio Telegraph Company, at $2.50 per week. Every cent he had made, he invested it. These investments were in railroads, railroad sleeping cars, as well as bridges and oil derricks, and he built his wealth as a bond salesman raising money in Europe for American enterprises. He Created an Empire from Steel. I got this from my Text book, and Notes From Class. I'm a History, Political Science, Geography Major. Carnegie Bio 1Carnegie Bio 2Look up others too! John D. RockefellerHenry FordCarlos Slim Helú Man Who is Richer than Bill Gates as of 8/2007Warren Buffett Ingvar KampradThere you have it Money Management and Hard Work. One thing I am going to be blunt with, is that Rhetoric, ain't going to work on me. I've stated many Facts, and Sources to try back up my claim. Please Give me Facts not Rhetoric! I don't have to listen to Rhetoric! Rhetoric is Opinion! It is not Fact at all, Why should I accept it? Remember this Quote from, Siddhartha, by Herman Hesse, Page 41 'Opinions are completely unimportant, whether if they are beautiful or ugly, clever or foolish; anyone could adhere them or reject them' Siddhartha Preview Al Capone also blew people's hands off with shotguns and was extremly lucky and brutal. Most poor people aren't like that, and almost none are that brutal, plus, it's impossible to run a mafia in America these days, what with DNA testing and such. Again, 99% of lower class people don't participate in crime. And those that do do it out of neccesity- dire conditions create dire situations where the only way to get some decent money is to hit up a store or something. Second of all, it's not that easy, and this isn't communist rhetoric, it's working class truth. Pretty much anyone in a lower class neighborhood will say this same stuff to you, and most of them have no political association. Hell, even some of the nazi scum will tell you this, and they're worthless right wing idiots (I've been watching my language here upon Jungle Soldier's request, or I would use stronger words). If you've never lived in a ghetto or worked a manual labor job you wouldn't understand. If you get 7 bucks a week and have a family to support then your costs include rent, food for said family, food for yourself, clothes for you and your family, and stuff for your kids if you're a decent parent. It doesn't provide room to go to college, especially if you keep getting fired because the boss decided it would make them an extra few dollars a week. Plus, if you work 10-12 hours or more (I know people who've had to work 16) as well as take care of a family and get some sleep you don't have time for college. And your education from lower level schools which are the only kind in lower class neighborhoods is too poor for you to really do good in college. There's no way to get that high in life, except for very few people/
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:52 am
The Leninator! Sith_Master_Steve The Leninator! Sith_Master_Steve Priestess_Kelina 1: Why the obsession over wealth? Does everyone in poverty need to become super rich, with an excess of money, for capitalism to be succesful? I would be far more impressed if a large number of people in poverty made it to middle class than elite upper class. I asked for a Definition of Wealthy along ago here, and yet I received no answer. I think if someone on Poverty got off his a** and did something I'd Respect him/her. Priestess_Kelina 2: Success is achieved NOT through hard work, but through WISE MONEY MANAGEMENT, even if it leads to obvious signs of poverty. For example, a van is cheaper than an apartment, so a person in poverty might give up the apartment and move into a van. This would save money, which if used wisely, could mean more food on the table, or better clothes, which could lead to finding a better job. Obvioulsy, a van is not suitable for families, but even for them, there are alternatives, though none come to mind at the moment. Another way to save money would be to buy a bicycle, and ride to and from work, rather than pay almost $3:00 a gallon for gas. Even a faraway job could be reached on a bike, one would simply have to get up earlier. Success is ahcieved not through making more money, but through making more of the money you DO have, even if it requires unconventional thinking. They go Hand in Hand. EX: I go to a two year school(I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Priestess_Kelina 3: One must recognize that Government plays a role in producing poverty. Even low taxes hurt those who have very little money to begin with. Also, some ways in which one could make money are illeagal. Right or wrong, the fact is that if ones primary source of income is through the drug trade, it gets kinda hard to escape from poverty, because you have to be carful with your ill gotten gains. Money that can't be used to make your life more comfortable is money you might as well not even have. One could theoretically reduce poverty by leagalizing the drug trade, and thus, creating more jobs though which to make money. Same goes for prostitution. I don't know this for a fact, but I THINK most people in the drug and prostituion trades are in poverty, and using this money to meet their basic needs. LOL Not the Drug Dealers I know, (I am not talking about he High School ones) They sure ain't living in Poverty. EX: Watch Scarface Same with Pimps, they ain't in poverty. Then you clearly don't know any drug dealers, especially if you put Scarface forwards as an example. Scarface is completly unrealistic with so many screw ups in it. But that's ok because it's a MOVIE. We're talking about real life. Most drug dealers live where their buyers live i.e. the ghetto. Here's a better example- go read The Autobiography of Malcolm X. He used to be in pimping and screwing with drugs, and he was poor. Dude, I live around New York City, where I live in my neighborhood I live down the street from 3-4 Different Drug Dealers. Everyone of them is around our age 16-25. Everyone of them Drive way better Cars than their parents who work 40+ hour Jobs. I am talking Hummers, SUVs, Mustangs, and Corvettes, and all of them are all paid off too.. These cars are maxed out to got leather interior, and 1,000+ in Stereo Equipment. If One of my Buddies at a Community college who went in and out of prison, because he was a drug dealer. He showed me his Bank account, (750,000+) and he makes around 250,000+ a year. He owns 5 houses in New York, 2 Houses Down South, and 3 Kick a** 100,000 Dollar Choppers (Motorcycles) One more thing Scarface is not Completely Unrealistic! Scarface is based on the Life of Al Capone. See the end of the Credits if you don't believe me. Scarface is a remake of a 1932 movie based on his life. Al Capone Lived it up, he was a Drug dealer of sorts, He made alcohol during the prohibition, alcohol was illegal, tell me how is that different from a Drug Dealer today? Al Capone also prostitution rackets in the city of Chicago, how is that different from a pimp? Al Capone Lived it up. Harder work, and Smarter Money Management. Seeing how his line of work was highly Illegal! Al Capone BioThe Leninator! Sith_Master_Steve Priestess_Kelina To sum up my position, hard work is pretty much irrelavent to your financial status. One can work VERY hard at setting up a drug ring, only to have it come to nothing, but a long sentance in prison. On the other hand, one can work almost not at all, and still be successful if they spend their money wisely. And one does not have to be RICH to be successful. One simply has to be able to meet all their basic needs, and they're a success story in my book. No, Hard Work and Success go hand and hand. No they don't! Do you listen at all? Here- I know tons of people who have worked extremly hard in two factory or dock or hard labor jobs their entire lives (this means over 40 years), and none of them are rich or what you would deem "succesful". Yet their boss, who was born rich and has never worked a hard day in his life is "successful". They've all been hurt on the job, they're all above the age of 45, they all work at least 12 hours a day every day (including weekends except sunday where they work around 10 hours). They've been working hard at it for years, and they aren't "successful". Your Communist Rhetoric ain't going to work on me at all! I never said that people who at factories or docks do not work hard at all. If you had any common sense at all, you'd realize that the people who are in college, and become more educated; then they will get the higher jobs, and make more money those who don't. I hope that Statement didn't shock you at all. I am sure if they work 10-12 hours a day, I am sure that they can make enough money further their education. They can go to a dirt cheap two year school, and transfer to a four year school, or even go to a trade school. I have a guy in my class who saved money working on the docks for 5 years, and he has enough money to get his 4 year degree, and he has 2 kids, and is married. You Jumped over the argument completely, I said Money Management, and hard work go hand and hand. I used this for an example. EX: I go to a two year school (I go to School for more employment options, and I work hard to get my 3.5 g.p.a. I also Save lots of money by going here.), I live with my parents (Free Room and Board, and Food), get free tuition (Financial Aide, Free books too!), I never paid a cent for college so-far. Seeing how no one here gave me a definition, or an amount of wealthy. None of us really know what it is. "boss' being born rich, I dunno about you, but lemme give you a brief history on my old man. He was born in Jersey, with only his sister, and mother. They lived in a Small 3 bedroom house. He worked on Rinky dink jobs like 'Shoveling horse s**t, on a farm' making $3.00 an hour'. He owned 2 cars before he graduated high school. My Father went to Rutgers to major in engineering. He commuted to save money. He graduated in Rutgers with a 3.8 G.P.A. He then started working in GE which made him relocate to Syracuse, New York. In 1986 my father still working for GE went to Syracuse University to get his MBA. He completed his MBA in 1989. While working at G.E. and going to school. Currently my Father works two jobs as a 'boss'. He didn't come from a rich family. Whether or not you believe that or not, I have a history on Andrew Carnegie. I'll re-give you the history on why he is remembered today. Andrew Carnegie was from a poor immigrant family from Scotland. He worked his way up, and did jobs here and there. Example: In 1851, he became a telegraph messenger boy in the Pittsburgh Office of the Ohio Telegraph Company, at $2.50 per week. Every cent he had made, he invested it. These investments were in railroads, railroad sleeping cars, as well as bridges and oil derricks, and he built his wealth as a bond salesman raising money in Europe for American enterprises. He Created an Empire from Steel. I got this from my Text book, and Notes From Class. I'm a History, Political Science, Geography Major. Carnegie Bio 1Carnegie Bio 2Look up others too! John D. RockefellerHenry FordCarlos Slim Helú Man Who is Richer than Bill Gates as of 8/2007Warren Buffett Ingvar KampradThere you have it Money Management and Hard Work. One thing I am going to be blunt with, is that Rhetoric, ain't going to work on me. I've stated many Facts, and Sources to try back up my claim. Please Give me Facts not Rhetoric! I don't have to listen to Rhetoric! Rhetoric is Opinion! It is not Fact at all, Why should I accept it? Remember this Quote from, Siddhartha, by Herman Hesse, Page 41 'Opinions are completely unimportant, whether if they are beautiful or ugly, clever or foolish; anyone could adhere them or reject them' Siddhartha Preview Al Capone also blew people's hands off with shotguns and was extremly lucky and brutal. Most poor people aren't like that, and almost none are that brutal, plus, it's impossible to run a mafia in America these days, what with DNA testing and such. Again, 99% of lower class people don't participate in crime. And those that do do it out of neccesity- dire conditions create dire situations where the only way to get some decent money is to hit up a store or something. Second of all, it's not that easy, and this isn't communist rhetoric, it's working class truth. Pretty much anyone in a lower class neighborhood will say this same stuff to you, and most of them have no political association. Hell, even some of the nazi scum will tell you this, and they're worthless right wing idiots (I've been watching my language here upon Jungle Soldier's request, or I would use stronger words). If you've never lived in a ghetto or worked a manual labor job you wouldn't understand. If you get 7 bucks a week and have a family to support then your costs include rent, food for said family, food for yourself, clothes for you and your family, and stuff for your kids if you're a decent parent. It doesn't provide room to go to college, especially if you keep getting fired because the boss decided it would make them an extra few dollars a week. Plus, if you work 10-12 hours or more (I know people who've had to work 16) as well as take care of a family and get some sleep you don't have time for college. And your education from lower level schools which are the only kind in lower class neighborhoods is too poor for you to really do good in college. There's no way to get that high in life, except for very few people/ LOL Al Capone Worked his a** off. A Ghetto is a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority groups There are Tons of Gangs/ Mafia today. To Name a Few Sacra Corona Unita The Irish Mob, the Colombian drug cartels, the Mexican drug cartels, the Japanese Yakuza, the Chinese triads, the Russian Mafia, the Mexican Mafia, the Indian Mafia, the Bulgarian Mafia, the Chechen mafia, the Brazilian PCC (Primeiro Comando da Capital) and Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13). A major one right now that is growing is the Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13. Wikipedia Mara Salvatrucha. refers to a large subset of the gangs (or "Maras") involved in criminal activities in Central America and the United States. The gang names are commonly abbreviated as MS, Mara, MS-13, and are composed mostly of Salvadorans, Hondurans and other Central Americans. The Mara Salvatrucha gangs have cliques, or factions, located throughout the United States and Latin America. Membership is believed to total over 100,000 worldwide. MS criminal activities include drug smuggling and sales, black market gun sales, human trafficking, assassinations for hire, theft, and assaults on law enforcement officials. Their activities have caught the eye of the FBI, who in September 2005 initiated wide-scale raids against suspected gang members, netting 660 arrests across the country. In the United States, the gang's strongholds have historically been in Southern California, Miami and Washington, D.C.. I work for 7 Bucks an hour, and work 12+ hours a week. I also work at the Republican Committee in my town 7+ hours. (Free) I am in a Family with 10 Kids in it! 7 Brothers, 2 sisters I watch about 7 of them everyday. Some of my pay goes into the groceries every week. I do 19 Credit Hours at school. It's tough, but I can do it! I did stuff similar last semester and got a 3.5 Right now I got a 3.8 G.P.A.
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