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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:44 pm
Harlequins are hard to shoot at, excel in hth (rending!), and got excellent mobility (fleet+ignore terrain). Shooty armies, and armies that wear heavy armor are good enemies for them. Things to avoid: Tyranids (Genestealers will own them in hth), Inquisition (incinerators negate cover and invulnerable saves, psychic hoods turn off psychic power), Dark Eldar (Wyches can go toe-to-toe in hth). Not sure if Tau SMS bypass the psychic power as they dont need LOS, if yes, Tau are best avoided too...
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:13 am
LightningLord Crustasian Spawn More Overlords King Kento Crustasian thats a good idea. ive never been a fan of fire prisms, they generally die 2 much. Q.F.T.M.F.T. by that i mean it attracts 2 much fire, coz it has a reputation where i usually play 2 be powerful so ppl try and focus a lot of fire on it. i usually just take a falcon, still a lot of firepower, but can also get my banshees across the board. It attracts fire away from the important things. It can really change the game, I have decimated people with my Prism. I love it to death. My biggest problem with Banshees... 'Hi meet Heavy Bolters' Its the big reason I prefer Striking Scorpions over them. Still new to this Eldar thing, trying to see what works best. Enhancing the Banshees with Farseers seems like a win win, but Harlequins look more versatile to me. Anyways, I love my Prism, love love love it. yeh u do have a good point. i think its just my prism hasnt had a good record compared 2 my falcon in games ive played so i guess thats y i dont use it much.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:26 am
Crustasian Spawn More Overlords King Kento Crustasian thats a good idea. ive never been a fan of fire prisms, they generally die 2 much. Q.F.T.M.F.T. by that i mean it attracts 2 much fire, coz it has a reputation where i usually play 2 be powerful so ppl try and focus a lot of fire on it. i usually just take a falcon, still a lot of firepower, but can also get my banshees across the board.
Well one, that leaves you with only 6 banshees. Two, attracting firepower can come in very handy, and if youre using the prism properly, youll use that to your advantage by skirting around your enemy's range to attract fire but stay safe. Also the Falcon does have the BS3, it does make up for it with the troop capacity and more weapons, but i prefer prisms myself.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:29 am
LightningLord It attracts fire away from the important things. It can really change the game, I have decimated people with my Prism. I love it to death. My biggest problem with Banshees... 'Hi meet Heavy Bolters' Its the big reason I prefer Striking Scorpions over them. Still new to this Eldar thing, trying to see what works best. Enhancing the Banshees with Farseers seems like a win win, but Harlequins look more versatile to me. Anyways, I love my Prism, love love love it.
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:42 pm
Van Evok Harlequins are hard to shoot at, excel in hth (rending!), and got excellent mobility (fleet+ignore terrain). Shooty armies, and armies that wear heavy armor are good enemies for them. Things to avoid: Tyranids (Genestealers will own them in hth), Inquisition (incinerators negate cover and invulnerable saves, psychic hoods turn off psychic power), Dark Eldar (Wyches can go toe-to-toe in hth). Not sure if Tau SMS bypass the psychic power as they dont need LOS, if yes, Tau are best avoided too... yeah, that's true. most armies have a hard time against tau, unless they get into close combat with them. id say tau are good enemies, as harlequins psychic powers DO effect them (i think). i just wish more of them could get power weapons, but i guess there are always banshees for that role.
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:50 am
If the number 13 is an unlucky number, then so should the letter B be. Because B looks like a scrunched together 13.
Hey yall'; I haven't posted here in damn near a year but I thought I'd share this.
So last night I was looking through the codex and I got to thinking about to classic Banshee vs. Scorpion argument.
I've -always- been an adament Scorpion fan just because... well I used them the first game I palyed and they ripped everything apart, so they have sentimental value.
So I started thinking: Scorpions can't be -that- much worse at killing Marines than a Banshee... and I -know- they excel vs. large numbers.
SO; I did a very long and complicated battle situation. Of course the dice could change this but it's all averaged rounded up. Feel free to check my math, I did my best but I did it at 5:30 in the morning, so I was obviously quite tired. The first fight is vs. a 10 man Marine squad (Veteran non-upgraded).
Caution: Long and Complicated ; Conclusion at the end!
9 Scorpions + 1 Exarch with Scorpions Claw
Charge
Scorpions have the higher initiative; they go first.
36 attacks on the Marines.
4 attacks each: 1 base + 1 for two cc weapons + 1 for mandiblasters + 1 for charging X 9
WS 4 vs. WS 4; 4 + to hit
18 attacks hit
Strength 4 vs. Toughness 4; 4+ to wound
9 wounds
3 + Marine save
5 Marines save
3 dead Marines
Marines attack
1 Attack each
7 Marines attack
WS 4 vs. WS 4; 4 + to hit
4 Marines hit
Strength 4 vs. Toughness 3; 3+ to wound
3 Wounded Scorpions
3+ Scorpion save
2 Wounded Scorpions
2 Scorpions die
Exarch attacks with Power Claw
5 Attacks: 2 Base, 1 for two CC weapons, 1 Mandiblaster, 1 Charging
WS 5 vs. WS 4; 3+ to hit
3 hits
Strength 8 (4 base X 2 for Power Claw)
Strength 8 vs. Toughness 4; 2 + to wound
3 Wounds
3 Dead Marines
Now for the Banshees
9 Banshees + 1 Exarch with Mirrorswords
Charge
Banshees have masks, they go first
Exarch goes before Banshees
5 attacks: 2 base, 2 for Mirrorswords (Over-rides two weapon bonus) 1 for charging
WS 5 vs. WS 4; 3+ to hit
3 attacks hit
Strength 3 vs. Toughness 4; 5 + to wound
1 attack wounds
1 Dead Marine
Banshees: 27 attacks; 1 base, 1 for two CC weapons, 1 for charging X 9
WS 4 vs. WS 4; 4+ to hit
14 attacks hit
Strength 3 vs. Toughness 4; 5 + to wound
5 wounds
5 dead Marines + 1 from Exarch
6 dead Marines
Marines attack
4 Marines to attack
WS 4 to WS 4; 4 + to hit
2 Marines hit
Strength 4 vs. Toughness 3; 2 Marines wound
Banshee 4 + save; 1 Banshee saves
1 dead Banshee
Conclusion with 9 Scorpions + 1 Exarch with Scorpion’s Claw vs. Marines
7 Marines to 2 Scorpions
Conclusion with 9 Howling Banshees + 1 Exarch with Mirrorswords vs. Marines
6 Marines to one Banshee
So the Scorpions manage to rip up more Marines despite their lack of power weapons; and they lose one more member despite having the more resilient armor save. Rather intriguing.
This fight was much closer than I thought it would be, either result is favored over most.
However if the Banshees were fighting a unit with more attacks, they would be easily be ripped apart.
So lets run this data table facing an imaginary unit of… 30 Orcs with 3 Strength, 3 toughness, 3 WS, 2 attacks (1 base, 1 for two CC weapons), 4 initiative and a 6+ armor save.
Charge;
Scorpions go first, have higher initiative
36 attacks: 4 attacks each: 1 base + 1 for two cc weapons + 1 for mandiblasters + 1 for charging X 9
WS 4 vs. WS 3; 3+ to hit
24 hits
Strength 4 vs. Toughness 3; 3+ to wound
16 wounds
6+ save
2 saves
14 wounds
14 Orcs die
16 Orcs attack back
32 Attacks (16 X 2)
WS 3 vs. WS 4; 4+ to hit
16 hits
Strength 3 vs. Toughness 3; 4+ to wound
8 wounds
Scorpions 3+ save
6 saves
2 Scorpions die
Exarch attacks with Power Claw
5 Attacks: 2 Base, 1 for two CC weapons, 1 Mandiblaster, 1 Charging
WS 5 vs. WS 3; 3+ to hit (It’s either this or 2+, fact of the matter is both the Scorpion and Banshee Exarch are both going off 3+ in this situation so favor to neither)
3 Hits
Strength 8 vs. Toughness 3; 2 + to wound
All wound
3 more Orcs die
14 Orcs dead from Scorpions + 3 from Exarch
Conclusion:
17 Orcs to 2 Scorpions
Now for the Banshees
9 Banshees + 1 Exarch with Mirrorswords vs. the same 30 Orcs
Charge; Banshees go first
Exarch goes first
5 attacks: 2 base, 2 for Mirrorswords (Over-rides two weapon bonus) 1 for charging
WS 5 vs. WS 3; 3+ to hit
3-4 attacks hit
Strength 3 vs. Toughness 3; 4+ to wound
2 wounds; no saves
2 Orcs die
Banshees: 27 attacks; 1 base, 1 for two CC weapons, 1 for charging X 9
WS 4 vs. WS 3; 3+ to hit
17 hits
Strength 3 vs. Toughness 3; 4+ to wound
9 wounds
Power weapons, no saves
9 Orcs die
Orcs attack back: 11 Orcs dead; 19 left
38 attacks (2 X 19)
WS 3 vs. WS 4; 4+ to hit
19 hits
Strength 3 vs. Toughness 3; 4 + to wound
10 wounds
Banshees 4+ save
5 saves
5 Banshees die
Conclusion: 11 Orcs to 5 Banshees
Final conclusion:
Scorpions vs. Marines: 7 Marines to 2 Scorpions
Banshees vs. Marines: 6 Marines to one Banshee
Scorpions vs. Orcs: 17 Orcs to 2 Scorpions
Banshees vs. Orcs: 11 Orcs to 5 Banshees
So; the Scorpions were -very- near par with the Banshees vs. the Marines; however they killed nearly twice as many and lost 2/5 of the Banshees vs. the Orcs.
The Scorpions put out better offensively than the Banshees in both situations; which was quite surprising. However they -far- out performed the Banshees vs. the Orcs.
So they would be a -much- better choice unless you know you’re facing Marines.
However even then, the Scorpions are right behind the Banshees yet they will stand vs. multiple wound creatures better, soak fire better, and be more all around resilient especially vs. ranged fire due to their superior save.
Also: Scorpions have better tactical advantages with the possibility of Infiltrate and they can possibly move through cover without difficultly.
Cost:
Scorpions (16) X 10 (160) + Exarch (12) + Scorpions Claw ( 15) = 187 with 20 more optional for shadow strike and 5 for Stalker
Banshees (16) X 10 (160) + Exarch (12) + Mirrorswords (10) = 180 with 10 more optional for (Crappy) Exarch powers
So the Scorpions are more durable, more offensively capable, and more tactical for… 7 points? Rawr; I’ll go with that.
Oh and those are the max numbers, I took out my calculations for the different weapons; I went with those Exarch weapons because those were the best vs. the Marines; so I kept them.
Me: What's your name?
Random person: Bob.
Me: GET THE ******** AWAY!
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:19 am
My BA friends says Scorpions are only Eldar he respects...to quote him: It takes guts to work out to get S4!
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:29 pm
Van Evok My BA friends says Scorpions are only Eldar he respects...to quote him: It takes guts to work out to get S4! If the number 13 is an unlucky number, then so should the letter B be. Because B looks like a scrunched together 13.
Haha, too bad the reason that they have a Strength of 4 is because of their swords...
xD
Me: What's your name?
Random person: Bob.
Me: GET THE ******** AWAY!
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:56 pm
Tojju Van Evok My BA friends says Scorpions are only Eldar he respects...to quote him: It takes guts to work out to get S4! If the number 13 is an unlucky number, then so should the letter B be. Because B looks like a scrunched together 13.
Haha, too bad the reason that they have a Strength of 4 is because of their swords...
xD
Me: What's your name?
Random person: Bob.
Me: GET THE ******** AWAY!
I prefer scorpions over banshees easily. Though now with farseers who can cast doom, banshees pack a punch.
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:01 am
King Kento Tojju Van Evok My BA friends says Scorpions are only Eldar he respects...to quote him: It takes guts to work out to get S4! If the number 13 is an unlucky number, then so should the letter B be. Because B looks like a scrunched together 13.
Haha, too bad the reason that they have a Strength of 4 is because of their swords...
xD
Me: What's your name?
Random person: Bob.
Me: GET THE ******** AWAY!
I prefer scorpions over banshees easily. Though now with farseers who can cast doom, banshees pack a punch.i take scorpions in all my games. they and take the hits coz they have 3+ save and its a gr8 distraction, and if they get into combat, its a bonus! seeing as most eldar units are specialists, they need 2 work 2gether. i use scorpions as a distraction to divert fire away from vulnerable units. they usually dont kill anything but because they distracted fire my other units are at full strength when they hit so that means a lot more damage.
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:03 am
Van Evok Harlequins are hard to shoot at, excel in hth (rending!), and got excellent mobility (fleet+ignore terrain). Shooty armies, and armies that wear heavy armor are good enemies for them. Things to avoid: Tyranids (Genestealers will own them in hth), Inquisition (incinerators negate cover and invulnerable saves, psychic hoods turn off psychic power), Dark Eldar (Wyches can go toe-to-toe in hth). Not sure if Tau SMS bypass the psychic power as they dont need LOS, if yes, Tau are best avoided too... Because their Psycic power needs no Psycic test much like the Warlock Powers it can't be removed via a Psycic hood... Which is annoying but a Psyocculum (allowing you to always see Psykers) is a good alternative.
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:05 pm
Crustasian King Kento Tojju Van Evok My BA friends says Scorpions are only Eldar he respects...to quote him: It takes guts to work out to get S4! If the number 13 is an unlucky number, then so should the letter B be. Because B looks like a scrunched together 13.
Haha, too bad the reason that they have a Strength of 4 is because of their swords...
xD
Me: What's your name?
Random person: Bob.
Me: GET THE ******** AWAY!
I prefer scorpions over banshees easily. Though now with farseers who can cast doom, banshees pack a punch.i take scorpions in all my games. they and take the hits coz they have 3+ save and its a gr8 distraction, and if they get into combat, its a bonus! seeing as most eldar units are specialists, they need 2 work 2gether. i use scorpions as a distraction to divert fire away from vulnerable units. they usually dont kill anything but because they distracted fire my other units are at full strength when they hit so that means a lot more damage.
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:12 am
I've just seen some rumours about a Blood angerls update, and it seems that thier going to be able to catch eldar rather easily, thus i'll have to play a defensive eldar force, any tips?
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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:44 pm
A figment of imagination I've just seen some rumours about a Blood angerls update, and it seems that thier going to be able to catch eldar rather easily, thus i'll have to play a defensive eldar force, any tips?
please elaborate on how the BA are going to be different in any way that would effect eldar specifically (you posted it here so it must). And why those changes would mean playing a defensive force.
And regardless of BA, the closest youll get to defensive is shooty, and even then youll have to play offensively to get anywhere. Defense is not what the eldar do.
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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:08 am
apparently assault marines become troops and get the turbo boost special rule, which means they'll close bloody quick and with only a small board for a small battle, theres not much i can do to get away.
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Reply
