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Cornetto1

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:41 am


It's horrible xp

You heard of the Wurzels?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:41 am


Nope.

marshjazz


Cornetto1

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:44 am


PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:57 am


rofl rofl Agreed.

marshjazz


Sargeant Major Zach

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:51 pm


Religion is totally agreeable, and extendable, though some may make sense others may not to one person. eek BIG SHOCKER!!!! It doesn't matter what your name is...What you wear..what religion you are. As long as you believe in what you believe. for example (it does support my theory) I am a christian, I believe this because I trust in God, and I try to walk and talk with him. I have heard stories on how buudism, and such other religions were invented and christianity by far makes sense to me! So as I said, it all depends on what your willing to belive..not who you are.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:35 am


Thats nice.

marshjazz


Bleeding_Me

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:03 am


I (being a christian) agree with the concept of religion because it really does make a person feel whole. I also agree with the spread of your religion, its just that so many of my fellow christians are really terrible about it. They go around offending people in the name of jesus, and they make retarded rules and stuff. It makes me feel so misrepresented, I hate it. In today's society if I tell anyone christian I get bashed for it. I also can't stand people who protest other peoples religions on false foundations.

for example: I went to a franklin graham festival not to long ago. There people outside protesting saying that we were in there "gay bashing and muslim bashing." I just thought to myself, wow, we're doing nothing of the sort but you guys are really the ones being intolerant towards us.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:46 am


Well you bring up a good point. You are misrepresented, as a cristian. But it is their religion that is motivating them to behave that way. Which means the religion has the ability and potenial to make everyone who follows it behave that way. (Which also enforces my view of religion being a cult)

marshjazz


Remove

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:31 am


Yeah I'm sorry but reading this thread has shown that most of you don't actually know what any of the religions are like. Go to most Christians and ask them whether they think homosexuals should be killed and I bet they will say no. There are Christian churches purely for those who are homosexual and I believe there is a large one in Australia for homosexual people and prostitutes because guess what if you read the Bible it says in the New Testament that all laws in the Old Testament other then the 10 commandments are not to be followed. That includes all the laws on eating meats and most other Jewish traditions along with murdering a man who lays next to another man. Oh and just before anyone says so... it doesn't once say that God hates gays. He just made a women for a man, not a man for a man. He is bound to be upset that his creation isn't going how he would have liked it to! Thats actually quite normal.

Also if you read the Old Testament it is of nothing but wars, how can a God who is all powerful, seeing his creation falling apart be in your eyes good? He was fair, and that is what the Bible says that he is a fair and just God. It also says you get to choose whether you want to go to hell (which by the way isn't burning in loads of fires for eternity). If God saved everyone, how would Heaven be perfect? If people liked doing bad things unless God made us all robots or puppets it would continue in Heaven and how would that then be perfect? Please if your going to argue such things about God not saving everyone, at least do some research into it. Revelation is a most interesting though confusing book.

Also I know for a fact that Christians are being tortured and murdered in the Middle East and China and North Korea, they are probably the worst places in the world right now, there are probably others. So by all means say that Christians are stupid and what ever but guess what? Its Atheists that are killing them. Its not easy following a religion, its a lot easier not to.

Also one of you said something about Christians persecuting Jews, if I remember rightly, Jews were stoning Christians to death long before any Christians did anything back and again it wasn't all Jews and it wasn't all Christians. You can't generalise Christianity, its impossible because there are too many branches off of it. Hitler claimed God told him what he was doing was right but I doubt other then those in Germany and other willing countries I can't see many Christians believing that to be true.

Another thing, this war in Iraq is all about some 'Muslims' that decided to blow up some of America, Spain, England and probably somewhere else. Now there isn't much proof that these people are real Muslims, they could just be extremists which means they are taking things to the extreme which most people do if they do stupid things in the name of religion.

You have to wonder sometimes who it is that causes problems, is it people or is it religion. All religions teach peace from what I know, unless your a satanist, I think they have an upside down view on life, I can't remember. Its People that use religion to do bad things it is rarely religion causing things to happen. A person will misinterpret something and take people with them and it will be in the name of religion though that doesn't mean it was the religion it self that caused the war.

I honestly think most people in America have a very warped view of Christianity because there are so many extremists there so I guess I understand why most Americans seem to hate the idea of Christianity but then go to somewhere like England where Christian schools are being shut down by the government so other religious schools can be opened and laws are being made to protect any religion other then Christianity.

I personally think Society would be boring and dull without religion, look back at your countries history and whether good or bad religion of some sort probably played a part of it. Then take that away and goodness knows what could have happened. Religion was the basis of many countries laws and morals. So personally I don't think society could cope without religion whether it is someone who is religious or someone who loves to bash religions they don't know anything about and have just read some atheists view on something that they haven't understood.

I also don't believe that anyone can be forced to be part of a religion their parents are part of. You choose what you do, just because you maybe brought up with it doesn't mean you have to go along with it. My parents are Christians and I didn't go along with what they said for years and years until I chose to go to church and it was the best choice I ever made. I have so much fun there. It was however my choice and I think people who don't make the choice for themselves are rather pathetic, your not a puppet and you can make your own decisions.

To sum my ramblings up, I don't believe religion of any sort is bad, I do however believe that people use religion to do bad things. If religion was bad it would teach that Muslims are to blow up other countries or different branches of Christianity are suppose to fight for years and years in Ireland. I don't believe its religion at all it is the people using religion to do bad things because they think that way they will get away with it.

I know my post is based towards Christianity because I know more about that and I have seen it bashed here more then the other. I do know quite a bit about paganism and Satanists and a little about Islam though not much so I won't argue their case, I am sure someone else better educated in those religions can do so.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:20 am


Now I'm usually one to defend religions and have always done so. However there are some things that are in my opinion preposterous. You say that people were arguing about all people not being saved, as I've noticed from this debate there have been not talks about Hell other than the point that it is used as a tool of control and conditioning of the people by entities such as the Church, one classic example of this is the Inferno by Dante. It was never used as an argument as far as I know.

Also Christians being murdered in the Middle East? Well over 30% of Iraq is Christian, I have an Iraqi immigrant friend who can back me up here, over 45% of Lebanon is Christian, Saudi Arabia and Iran also have Christian communities. The killings of Christians you are more than likely referring to is within the spheres of the Palestine-Israeli conflict which is a civil war. Murder happens, be it intentional or non intentional. That's what war is.

Also, the slaughtering of Jews has been in vogue for a much longer time than Jews oppressing Christians. As I remember correctly the oppression of Christians came due to the Roman Empire's fear of such a fast growing religion destabilizing their power. Then when Constantine converted the whole Empire leapt at the opportunity to quell the masses and converted into the Catholic Church which kept their power running for another few centuries. Then the Church turned on the Jews to make Christians feel like they've gotten revenge and have done so for hundreds of years since then. That is much longer than any Jew hurting Christians.

Next of to give God any human like qualities by saying 'He'll be bound to be mad if it doesn't go His way' and try to understand His thinking without Him telling you is blasphemy, also if it doesn't go His way He's not gonna throw a hissy fit He'll set it right. I'm sure that the story of Lot and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah will tell you so. God is beyond things such as hatred.

Iraq had nothing at all to do with the bombings of Spain, England, America, Kenya, the Horn of Africa or any other place at all. Look up the news and you'll see that Saddam Hussein has been found by an Iraqi-American court to have had no ties to Al-Qaida. Next off to say that these bombers were Muslim or even Islamic extremists are not facts, especially since six of the hijackers have already been found alive all over the world leading normal lives, with another of them having died a year before the Twin Towers were hit.

Oh and six of the Ten Commandments have to be followed according to Jesus in Matthew. In fact let me give you the entire verse.

Matthew 19:16-19 "Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments". "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honour your father and mother,'[4] and 'love your neighbour as yourself."

However most importantly of all. If you yourself had bothered to read up on the entire Bible and understand it to be as it should be you would know that THE ENTIRE OLD TESTAMENT needs to be followed as Jesus clearly states in Matthew yet again.

Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

So have you made your animal sacrifices as of late?

I do however agree with you on the forced religion and how people twist religions to instigate fighting and tensions amongst people. It is natural to use something influential to your advantage. Also yes many laws were put into effect because of religions. Though according to your's and many other Christian's statements you do not need to follow Old Testament law (meaning we don't need to follow most of our laws today and we won't get punished by God yay!). Well, it does say that in the New Testament I'll agree. However I pose this question to you and to all Christians out there.

Whose word will you follow? The word of Jesus your Savior who said to continue following Old Testament law? Or the word of St. Paul who says not to follow Old Testament law because Jesus whom he never knew in life told him not to?

Now were I a Christian I would more than likely say that I'll follow the word of my Salvation rather than the word of some man that didn't even know my Savior in life. Whatever though, I'm just an uninformed person.

Now on Satanists which I also know quite a bit about, they're view on life is basically this; "You only have one life to live so indulge like crazy in whatever makes you happy." That's actually a very well accepted theory these days, so is it really upside down? Also Satanists contrary to popular Christian belief do not follow the figure Satan. In fact they don't believe in the guy nor God. In fact they chose the name Satan because he was the figure that personified their belief in indulgence and materialism. Or at least thats what Church of Satan founder Anton Szandor LaVey stated.

Basically to sum up my ramblings, I also don't believe religion is bad as long as it doesn't preach pain infliction on others in any form or manner. Religions are often used to try to justify the feelings of angry people, its the unfortunate truth and that can't be changed.

yokomotoz


marshjazz

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:26 am


Yeah, I was reading what you said until you showed your ignorance about satanism. Satanist do teach peace you ignoramous you. rolleyes Honestly, when is the last time you have heard a satanist extremist? It seems to me all the extremist believe in some form of god. Christians who are forcing their religion on others. I've never heard of a Satanist hijacker. Thank you yoko, too. It is nice to see that not everyone is ignorant.

So yeah, don't care what you have to say.

Hitler also claimed nothing of the sort. If I recall correctly he was born a Jew, but didn't do anything in the name of religion. Part of the reason people become atheist is so that they don't have to read the bs found in the bible.

Also no one mentioned god wanting to kill the homosexuals. Just that he discriminates against them, and discrimination is bad. How can a god that discriminates be good? It doesn't matter that he is upset (wait, I thought he was perfect and not human, he shouldn't be getting upset) that his "Creation" isn't going the way he wants, he is still discriminating against people for their sexual preference. Something that they may not even be able to help (there might be a scientific explaination) He can throw a temper tantrum all he wants, that just makes him even less perfect and less good in my eyes. And since he is supposedly infalible, there is a contridiction right there.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:36 am


Religion is a very interesting subject. I believe in religious freedom and all that, but I was speaking to a friend of mine recently and we came up with some interesting points together.

Now, everyone in the world has a different look on religion, whether it be big or small. My friend and I, neither one of us religious, were discussing if we would ever become religious or not. I said that I probably wouldn't, not because of lack of faith, but because of the controversy, and then there is the ever looming thought of Science over God(s).

I said that the only time that I would become religious is if everyone actually agreed on one God or multiple Gods to support. I'm not saying this has to be done. Being able to choose your own Religion is what makes this world great, but if you look at it, if everyone had a similar opinion on religion then this world would be one step closer to peace and unity :3

Just a small ramble~

Digitized


yokomotoz

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:18 am


Thank you for stating that Satanists do preach peace marshjazz, I had forgotten to mention that in my post. I was just so flustered at this person's statements and notions. Its these things exactly that lead to the ideological differences and misconceptions which prevents us from peace today. I just hate to see wrong information being played out. I've been to a few Church services and have seen the shooting down of Satanists because of the name alone.

One that really gets me pissed off is how the news and the many different corrupt religious bodies say that Satanists are doing evil acts when they have private parties in L.A. and don't allow anyone else except active members inside. When the exact same thing is happening every time a Pope dies or when a big contract is about to be signed, only Cardinals are allowed into the deliberation room in deciding the next Pope or next money making document. In its blunt essence it is the same as what Satanists do with their parties, only the media portrays it differently.

It also pisses me off on how Hitler was portrayed as a Christian fanatic. He was far from religious to begin with, and like you said marshjazz he had Jewish heritage, though I'm not sure on him being born Jewish I will have to look in on that. If people knew about Hitler they would know that the guy hated Zionists and how they were receiving favoritism by the Allies by being promised Israel. This favoritism led to many revolts in the region of Palestine which helped break the Ottoman Empire and eventually cause the Central Powers to lose and Hitler losing his job as an Army boy. Thus the first stone in Hitler's hatred and misconception that all Jews were Zionists (in fact the guy actually believed that Zionism was part of Judaic religion.) Then came being denied entry into the Art School in Vienna, and then a prostitute who happened to be Jewish giving him syphilis causing pretty much the destruction of his reproductive parts and his mind and setting off his hatred towards Jews whom he misconceived as the rich Zionists holding a lot of world power and money.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:21 am


Then yet again you show fault because it says somewhere in the new testament and no I can't remember the exact verse that the Jewish laws are not Christian laws. It is talking about circumcision when it is mentioned.

And no the Christians being murdered in Iraq are not in the war zone, these are people who are being persecuted by Muslims, I know this as a fact, someone in my church frequently visits there as well as going to China, she smuggles Bibles in and risks her life in doing so.

Also about giving God human like qualities, no one can understand God, thats known, its a common fact otherwise people wouldn't be having such debates. The only way some people will ever understand is if you bring things down to human terms. You understand more then some people you have shown that already.

You are only looking at Mathew there are four gospels, each slightly different saying different things. If you knew, Jesus was the sacrifice which is why no more are to be made, that is what it says. He also says in the quote you have shown that he is there to fulfill them, once something is fulfilled it doesn't need to be continued. You will find most if not all prophecy's in the old testament were fulfilled by Jesus. I haven't known anyone to do something that is already fulfilled.

Now I said quite clearly that Christianity was the only religion I knew a lot about. I did know a lot about Satanism but that was years ago and most of which I have forgotten. I do know about the pagans and satanists who meet in Dartmoor (a place in England for those who don't know) every year or at least use to, they have big rituals on the moor but again I don't know much else however maybe these are a different type of satanists. All I know they don't believe in God and I know that they have a lot of rituals including blood oh and you don't just become a satanist. Then maybe it is a different type of satanist then what you are talking about. Maybe peaceful was the wrong word, the satanists I learn't about weren't exactly moral, thats probably a better word. Sorry if thats wrong, its what I learnt.

From what I was told Hitler did say that God told him to do so, maybe I was told wrong but thats what I was told.

Also God might not be human does that mean he has no feelings? It says we were made in his image and that doesn't mean what we look like. So I believe he can have emotions after all he was rather angry and caring in the Bible. So I can't see him with no feelings at all because I have read otherwise.

Oh Gab I don't believe in the slightest that if everyone had the same religion or none at all that this world would be better off. Its people that cause problems.

Remove


Digitized

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:34 am


Remove
Then yet again you show fault because it says somewhere in the new testament and no I can't remember the exact verse that the Jewish laws are not Christian laws. It is talking about circumcision when it is mentioned.

And no the Christians being murdered in Iraq are not in the war zone, these are people who are being persecuted by Muslims, I know this as a fact, someone in my church frequently visits there as well as going to China, she smuggles Bibles in and risks her life in doing so.

Also about giving God human like qualities, no one can understand God, thats known, its a common fact otherwise people wouldn't be having such debates. The only way some people will ever understand is if you bring things down to human terms. You understand more then some people you have shown that already.

You are only looking at Mathew there are four gospels, each slightly different saying different things. If you knew, Jesus was the sacrifice which is why no more are to be made, that is what it says. He also says in the quote you have shown that he is there to fulfill them, once something is fulfilled it doesn't need to be continued. You will find most if not all prophecy's in the old testament were fulfilled by Jesus. I haven't known anyone to do something that is already fulfilled.

Now I said quite clearly that Christianity was the only religion I knew a lot about. I did know a lot about Satanism but that was years ago and most of which I have forgotten. I do know about the pagans and satanists who meet in Dartmoor (a place in England for those who don't know) every year or at least use to, they have big rituals on the moor but again I don't know much else however maybe these are a different type of satanists. All I know they don't believe in God and I know that they have a lot of rituals including blood oh and you don't just become a satanist. Then maybe it is a different type of satanist then what you are talking about. Maybe peaceful was the wrong word, the satanists I learn't about weren't exactly moral, thats probably a better word. Sorry if thats wrong, its what I learnt.

From what I was told Hitler did say that God told him to do so, maybe I was told wrong but thats what I was told.

Also God might not be human does that mean he has no feelings? It says we were made in his image and that doesn't mean what we look like. So I believe he can have emotions after all he was rather angry and caring in the Bible. So I can't see him with no feelings at all because I have read otherwise.

Oh Gab I don't believe in the slightest that if everyone had the same religion or none at all that this world would be better off. Its people that cause problems.


Thats true, but if you look at the big picture, there would be much more peace and much less controversy. I'm not saying it would be perfect, people always make problems regardless, but still....
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