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that's sentient, and, no, they shouldn't.

To prove my point, would you want to be locked up in a tank with nothing but cedar shavings to sleep in, and nutrient pellets as a food source?

They do not actively contribute to any aspect of society, they simply live according to their nature and training. They have no say in what happens to them, so granting them "rights" would be a moot point.

We've killed our way to the top of the food chain, and it wasn't to eat carrots...As Ron White said.


That dollar amount could also constitute the price of a knife-rated vest. A good bulet-prof vest can range for 6-10 thousand dollars. THe best, Dragon Skin, is marked "security/military only" and is well above that price mark. But, it can take immense damage and only leave oyu with some bruises. That includes one case of a grenade, though that woudl leave some scratches and more trauma. (See: Sutureweapons ran an episode featuring Dragon Skin, in which he promptly emptied a magazine form an M16, AK-47, and MP5 *9mm submachinegun* into it, without a single round going thorugh. THey then used the same vest, on a dummy, over a greane with the dummy still surviving) And the zig-zag, or "serpentine", run won;t keep you form being shot. IT simply draws your attention away from the shooter. AND learning how to dodge a bullet isn't "useful". It's a waste of time and money, which would be better invested into firearms training. And simply isn't possible, as a .22 (The smallest) goes 1200 feet per second, which means you have no chance to dodge.

AS or my source on prices for vests: I routeinly get Military and Law Enforcement catalogs and offers in my mailbox-both by choice and randomly. And the only place I've seen Dragon Skin is on TV and a Security Supply website.

That has been said of the Founding Fathers. They not onyl planned on a coup against the government, the used guerilla warfare. They placed the 2nd there so that America wouldn't have to suffer like they did when they were under British rule.

1) Why not? Carrots taste better than meat, and they are better for you.

2) I curtsy to your superior knowledge of bulletproof vests. I have no idea what they cost. However, these are just my (obviously not very good) examples on what could be taught in a true protection class.

3) Exactly my point. One person's patriot is another person's terrorist.

Because humans are Omnivores, and we're meant to do so. look at the structure of your teeth, they're designed to tear and cut flesh as well as crush and grind vegetation.


I have taken and helped to teach self defense classes, and, generally, when you're out in public, and someone pulls a gun on you, your best bet is to submit to their demands. I, personally, am not a fan of feeling helpless, and, as the saying goes, an armed society is a polie society. you are less likely to be mugged in an area that has a dense population of consealed carry permits, for the simple fact that criminals are never sure if someone is carrying a piece that could forcibly remove a limb with a well-placed shot or series of shots.

It's a grim mental image, but it's effective, and it's a reality. Bullets do more than make holes in people, there's a fairly large amount of energy transferred in those little hunks of lead (or tungsten, if someone has the money for "green" rounds), and most handguns can, and on a well-placed center-mass shot, will, shatter bones and cause severe organ damage.

That aside, have you ever tried to WEAR body armor? it's generally fairly heavy, exceptionally warm, and, well, generally uncomforable. besides, what good is it if you get shot in the head?


I'm not going to dispute this, there's no reason to. All I can say to this point is that I agree completely.

unarmed and basics. generally, the rule of thumb was trying to arm yourself is a bad idea unless you know what you're doing, because if you're armed, and you get disarmed, your opposition can suddenly have a tool at their disposal they didnn't have, and a lot of motivation to use it.

allow me to clarify with the "armed" statement... I was referring more to carrying a knife, riot baton, or some sort of inprovisational weapon, like a glass bottle, or piece of lumber.

although, if I were an attacker, I would definately have reservations about my actions when faced with anything chambered in .45 ACP (or even .357 magnum/.38 special, for that matter). But, to be honest, I'd like to see Glacer (sp?) safety slugs made available for personal defense... those leave truly horrific results, and will not over-penetrate the target for anything.

Safety slugs are meant for use by air marshals. It's essentially shot pellets suspended in a Teflon gel. they're made to bring down hostile passengers without running the risk of putting a hole in the cabin.