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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:37 am
xLady Tsukiyox brainnsoup @Eternal: For most of your points, I'll agree to disagree. But magic is only evil to you. And banning the entire series because it has magic, or banning anything else for faith-related reasons, is wrong because you're forcing your religious beliefs on other people.
@xLady Tsukiyox: Did you change your un? I just now realized. But I don't see anything wrong with her asking her mom to type out her points. She said in the first place that it was her mom who said them. I don't see how it's much different from paraphrasing then providing a source.
Though Eternal, if you're mom won't even let you read Harry Potter, are you sure she'll be okay with you being in this guild? Yeah I did. Typing out -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden is a bit of a hassle. xD It's a problem because she's not doing it herself. It's like asking someone to type out an English essay. Paraphrasing and giving a source is fine. It shows you did research on what you're debating and it supports your position. @Blue:Or that she'll be okay with you being on Gaia for that matter. Or perhaps even being on the internet.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:07 pm
xLady Tsukiyox brainnsoup @Eternal: For most of your points, I'll agree to disagree. But magic is only evil to you. And banning the entire series because it has magic, or banning anything else for faith-related reasons, is wrong because you're forcing your religious beliefs on other people.
@xLady Tsukiyox: Did you change your un? I just now realized. But I don't see anything wrong with her asking her mom to type out her points. She said in the first place that it was her mom who said them. I don't see how it's much different from paraphrasing then providing a source.
Though Eternal, if you're mom won't even let you read Harry Potter, are you sure she'll be okay with you being in this guild? Yeah I did. Typing out -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden is a bit of a hassle. xD It's a problem because she's not doing it herself. It's like asking someone to type out an English essay. Paraphrasing and giving a source is fine. It shows you did research on what you're debating and it supports your position. @Blue:Or that she'll be okay with you being on Gaia for that matter. Her opinion on the book mostly seems to come from her mom anyway. I'm actually pretty curious to see how she thinks.
But yeah, if Harry Potter is a threat to your faith in your mom's eyes, Eternal, then we're probably much worse. A huge part of being in this guild is having people actively questioning and denying your faith.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:59 pm
Someoneiknow xxEternallyBluexx Kreazdor Christians just seem to attack in some random manner. It's virtually become a religion of hate ever since Jesus died if you ask me. I've heard of christians discussing whether or not yoga is bad just because of some mention of awakening an inner serpent or some odd thing like that. Harry Potter certainly isn't evil, and near impossible to be real for that matter. The Bible probably has more "magic" in it than the entire series! Of course I'm sure most christians wouldn't consider making fire rain from the skies, turning a sea into blood, turning people into pillars of salt, raising people from the dead, etc, etc, as magic. They're probably just trying to attack a Catholic, which somehow differs from Christians in some meaningless yet apparently significant ways. It's this kind of...complete and utter stupidity that convinced me to start looking at other religions around the world... There's key differences. That 'magic' is from God.A big point of not doing magic is we're supposed to rely on God, and not ourselves, which is what faith and miracles are about. I'm sorry you think we're all hater's, but there's nothing wrong with hating a book. If I hated JK Rowling there'd be a problem, but I don't. I just hate her series. But a few pages ago you said you found so much that you liked in the Harry Potter series. Technically, if you hate a person's work, their life and their calling, by default, you hate that person. You can say you dislike, but be careful of the words you use. Hate is a very strong word, and it can all tie in together with everything else. Kind of like how a person may hate wal-mart, but not hate sam walton. Well, Sam Walton made Wal-mart, Wal-mart was his calling and his life, so therefore, by default, you hate Sam Walton. God only hates sin, so unless you think Harry Potter is pure sin, you should be careful about "hating" it. My problem with your argument is that it's oversimplistic. Edgar Allen Poe, for example, is my favorite American author yet I hate certain works of his. I obviously can't hate and love a person at the same time in those instances. Also, there comes the question of how much a work stays as someone's (apart from namesake, copyright, and the like) once it is released into the public. In the frame of your Wal-Mart example, not all Wal-Marts are managed to the letter the same way (though policies are supposed to prevent that). If someone poorly manages a Wal-Mart, the employees are unhappy, and they take it out on the customers. The customers, however, love the better-run Wal-Mart as opposed to the aforementioned Wal-Mart, which they hate. Do they hate the managers, who have taken Sam Walton's work and made it their own in some way? Do they hate Sam Walton since they hate that one Wal-Mart? Or do they just hate the one Wal-Mart for the employees who contributed to the work at hand?
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 pm
brainnsoup xLady Tsukiyox brainnsoup @Eternal: For most of your points, I'll agree to disagree. But magic is only evil to you. And banning the entire series because it has magic, or banning anything else for faith-related reasons, is wrong because you're forcing your religious beliefs on other people.
@xLady Tsukiyox: Did you change your un? I just now realized. But I don't see anything wrong with her asking her mom to type out her points. She said in the first place that it was her mom who said them. I don't see how it's much different from paraphrasing then providing a source.
Though Eternal, if you're mom won't even let you read Harry Potter, are you sure she'll be okay with you being in this guild? Yeah I did. Typing out -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden is a bit of a hassle. xD It's a problem because she's not doing it herself. It's like asking someone to type out an English essay. Paraphrasing and giving a source is fine. It shows you did research on what you're debating and it supports your position. @Blue:Or that she'll be okay with you being on Gaia for that matter. Her opinion on the book mostly seems to come from her mom anyway. I'm actually pretty curious to see how she thinks.
But yeah, if Harry Potter is a threat to your faith in your mom's eyes, Eternal, then we're probably much worse. A huge part of being in this guild is having people actively questioning and denying your faith.Being in this guild is a bit hard, but my mom knows what goes on. She doesn't seem to have a problem with it, partly because when it does weaken my faith, I step away from it for a bit and really think about it. As nice as it would be not to worry about secular influences, I niether live nor expect to live in a world like that. Since I don't want to live away from the world, I want to understand it as much as I can without becoming part of it. And yeah, I think you should see that. My mom really thinks about things, and she's passionate about different subjects then I am. I'm not sure how she'll come across over the net, but i know she can explain where she's coming from a lot better the I could. And I didn't say I wanted it banned (though banning a single book isn't the worst thing could happen. I'd be far more worried if society banned a lot of books from the general public, instead of banning a book in a school. School restricts our rights anyway >.<). I just don't think it should be encouraged the way it is. If teachers are told a child isn't allowed to read a book, that should be enforced. @Someone:Good point. To tell the truth we didn't get the internet until this year because my brother abused it. My mom is coming from a place where we could do without it, and if my sister and I hadn't begged her for it for something since we lost it, we probrably would never have gotten it. To tell the truth though, we could lose it rather easily, so it's a privilage to be on here. And as for hating Harry Potter...it's like being a drunk to me. If I were a drunk I'd hate, but I'd be addicted. In a way, I liked the story so much I was addicted. Now I hate it and wouldn't mind watching it burn. I don't hate JK Rowling though. Even if I hate this work, her work is not her. You can love someone even if you dislike characteristics about the person, things they've made or their actions, the same way you can care about you're own life even after you've done something horrible, like murdered someone. It's confusing, but human nature is rather twisted anyway. That's what you get from with a being that contains both good and evil. Though, you're right, hate may be a bit strong. I'm willing to go with extremely dislike. I'll also admit to not being completely rational about it. The whole thing ended up rather horribly, so with me my feelings against Harry Potter are personal. I don't hate JK Rowling because of her books though.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:13 pm
xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xLady Tsukiyox brainnsoup @Eternal: For most of your points, I'll agree to disagree. But magic is only evil to you. And banning the entire series because it has magic, or banning anything else for faith-related reasons, is wrong because you're forcing your religious beliefs on other people.
@xLady Tsukiyox: Did you change your un? I just now realized. But I don't see anything wrong with her asking her mom to type out her points. She said in the first place that it was her mom who said them. I don't see how it's much different from paraphrasing then providing a source.
Though Eternal, if you're mom won't even let you read Harry Potter, are you sure she'll be okay with you being in this guild? Yeah I did. Typing out -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden is a bit of a hassle. xD It's a problem because she's not doing it herself. It's like asking someone to type out an English essay. Paraphrasing and giving a source is fine. It shows you did research on what you're debating and it supports your position. @Blue:Or that she'll be okay with you being on Gaia for that matter. Her opinion on the book mostly seems to come from her mom anyway. I'm actually pretty curious to see how she thinks.
But yeah, if Harry Potter is a threat to your faith in your mom's eyes, Eternal, then we're probably much worse. A huge part of being in this guild is having people actively questioning and denying your faith.Being in this guild is a bit hard, but my mom knows what goes on. She doesn't seem to have a problem with it, partly because when it does weaken my faith, I step away from it for a bit and really think about it. As nice as it would be not to worry about secular influences, I niether live nor expect to live in a world like that. Since I don't want to live away from the world, I want to understand it as much as I can without becoming part of it. And yeah, I think you should see that. My mom really thinks about things, and she's passionate about different subjects then I am. I'm not sure how she'll come across over the net, but i know she can explain where she's coming from a lot better the I could. And I didn't say I wanted it banned (though banning a single book isn't the worst thing could happen. I'd be far more worried if society banned a lot of books from the general public, instead of banning a book in a school. School restricts our rights anyway >.<). I just don't think it should be encouraged the way it is. If teachers are told a child isn't allowed to read a book, that should be enforced. @Someone:Good point. To tell the truth we didn't get the internet until this year because my brother abused it. My mom is coming from a place where we could do without it, and if my sister and I hadn't begged her for it for something since we lost it, we probrably would never have gotten it. To tell the truth though, we could lose it rather easily, so it's a privilage to be on here. And as for hating Harry Potter...it's like being a drunk to me. If I were a drunk I'd hate, but I'd be addicted. In a way, I liked the story so much I was addicted. Now I hate it and wouldn't mind watching it burn. I don't hate JK Rowling though. Even if I hate this work, her work is not her. You can love someone even if you dislike characteristics about the person, things they've made or their actions, the same way you can care about you're own life even after you've done something horrible, like murdered someone. It's confusing, but human nature is rather twisted anyway. That's what you get from with a being that contains both good and evil. Though, you're right, hate may be a bit strong. I'm willing to go with extremely dislike. I'll also admit to not being completely rational about it. The whole thing ended up rather horribly, so with me my feelings against Harry Potter are personal. I don't hate JK Rowling because of her books though. Well I'm very curious to hear her opinion.
And it's not like teachers are encouraging their students to get drunk. From a non-religious point of view, it's a little silly to keep the books from kids. And like I said before, we don't keep meat from children who's parents wish them to remain vegetarian. Or at least we didn't when I was a kid. It's too hard to keep track of which children have which restrictions. It's the parent's responsibility to teach the kid to follow their rules. And I realize that kids will be kids and break the rules once in a while. But if the parents feel that strongly about the matter, there's always religious private schools and home schooling. I know at public schools there's an insane ammount of kidlets per teacher and they can't be expected to keep track of and enforce every student's parents' rules.
And I think you hate the series out of fear. And I think you fear it because you were told that you should. There's nothing evil about the books! There's nothing wrong with feeling drawn in by the plot! If you feel nothing when reading a book, then you're probably not reading the right book! XD
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:34 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Shoiri:That's not necessarily what I'd strive for. I'd want my writing to have a point, besides being an escape. Then anything you write I'll definately pass on. I read to be entertained. If I want to read to learn something, I'll read my boyfriend's trig book.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:35 pm
4shi Someoneiknow xxEternallyBluexx Kreazdor Christians just seem to attack in some random manner. It's virtually become a religion of hate ever since Jesus died if you ask me. I've heard of christians discussing whether or not yoga is bad just because of some mention of awakening an inner serpent or some odd thing like that. Harry Potter certainly isn't evil, and near impossible to be real for that matter. The Bible probably has more "magic" in it than the entire series! Of course I'm sure most christians wouldn't consider making fire rain from the skies, turning a sea into blood, turning people into pillars of salt, raising people from the dead, etc, etc, as magic. They're probably just trying to attack a Catholic, which somehow differs from Christians in some meaningless yet apparently significant ways. It's this kind of...complete and utter stupidity that convinced me to start looking at other religions around the world... There's key differences. That 'magic' is from God.A big point of not doing magic is we're supposed to rely on God, and not ourselves, which is what faith and miracles are about. I'm sorry you think we're all hater's, but there's nothing wrong with hating a book. If I hated JK Rowling there'd be a problem, but I don't. I just hate her series. But a few pages ago you said you found so much that you liked in the Harry Potter series. Technically, if you hate a person's work, their life and their calling, by default, you hate that person. You can say you dislike, but be careful of the words you use. Hate is a very strong word, and it can all tie in together with everything else. Kind of like how a person may hate wal-mart, but not hate sam walton. Well, Sam Walton made Wal-mart, Wal-mart was his calling and his life, so therefore, by default, you hate Sam Walton. God only hates sin, so unless you think Harry Potter is pure sin, you should be careful about "hating" it. My problem with your argument is that it's oversimplistic. Edgar Allen Poe, for example, is my favorite American author yet I hate certain works of his. I obviously can't hate and love a person at the same time in those instances. Also, there comes the question of how much a work stays as someone's (apart from namesake, copyright, and the like) once it is released into the public. In the frame of your Wal-Mart example, not all Wal-Marts are managed to the letter the same way (though policies are supposed to prevent that). If someone poorly manages a Wal-Mart, the employees are unhappy, and they take it out on the customers. The customers, however, love the better-run Wal-Mart as opposed to the aforementioned Wal-Mart, which they hate. Do they hate the managers, who have taken Sam Walton's work and made it their own in some way? Do they hate Sam Walton since they hate that one Wal-Mart? Or do they just hate the one Wal-Mart for the employees who contributed to the work at hand? I'm taking it from the stance that you should hate nothing but sin. You can hate whatever you want, but I feel that hate is a strong word, and should be used carefully. It is typically used to denote when a person is most angry, and when they want to cause the most harm. So I feel that it should be used sparingly if at all. This pertains to what you said by how I feel you shouldn't say casually that you hate something. And yes, sometimes it isn't necessarily the entity itself that you hate, but say a personality or trait that you hate. But that should be emphasized when you are stating the point, rather than saying you hate the whole thing. Like how in the Harry Potter series, I hate the use of magical entities in the book, or the childish euphamism, rather than the whole book which did take up a lot of J.K. Rowling's time to complete and I think she would be rather proud of it. So by stating that you hate it, if she were there, she would most likely take that as a personal stab against her.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:39 pm
brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xLady Tsukiyox brainnsoup @Eternal: For most of your points, I'll agree to disagree. But magic is only evil to you. And banning the entire series because it has magic, or banning anything else for faith-related reasons, is wrong because you're forcing your religious beliefs on other people.
@xLady Tsukiyox: Did you change your un? I just now realized. But I don't see anything wrong with her asking her mom to type out her points. She said in the first place that it was her mom who said them. I don't see how it's much different from paraphrasing then providing a source.
Though Eternal, if you're mom won't even let you read Harry Potter, are you sure she'll be okay with you being in this guild? Yeah I did. Typing out -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden is a bit of a hassle. xD It's a problem because she's not doing it herself. It's like asking someone to type out an English essay. Paraphrasing and giving a source is fine. It shows you did research on what you're debating and it supports your position. @Blue:Or that she'll be okay with you being on Gaia for that matter. Her opinion on the book mostly seems to come from her mom anyway. I'm actually pretty curious to see how she thinks.
But yeah, if Harry Potter is a threat to your faith in your mom's eyes, Eternal, then we're probably much worse. A huge part of being in this guild is having people actively questioning and denying your faith.Being in this guild is a bit hard, but my mom knows what goes on. She doesn't seem to have a problem with it, partly because when it does weaken my faith, I step away from it for a bit and really think about it. As nice as it would be not to worry about secular influences, I niether live nor expect to live in a world like that. Since I don't want to live away from the world, I want to understand it as much as I can without becoming part of it. And yeah, I think you should see that. My mom really thinks about things, and she's passionate about different subjects then I am. I'm not sure how she'll come across over the net, but i know she can explain where she's coming from a lot better the I could. And I didn't say I wanted it banned (though banning a single book isn't the worst thing could happen. I'd be far more worried if society banned a lot of books from the general public, instead of banning a book in a school. School restricts our rights anyway >.<). I just don't think it should be encouraged the way it is. If teachers are told a child isn't allowed to read a book, that should be enforced. @Someone:Good point. To tell the truth we didn't get the internet until this year because my brother abused it. My mom is coming from a place where we could do without it, and if my sister and I hadn't begged her for it for something since we lost it, we probrably would never have gotten it. To tell the truth though, we could lose it rather easily, so it's a privilage to be on here. And as for hating Harry Potter...it's like being a drunk to me. If I were a drunk I'd hate, but I'd be addicted. In a way, I liked the story so much I was addicted. Now I hate it and wouldn't mind watching it burn. I don't hate JK Rowling though. Even if I hate this work, her work is not her. You can love someone even if you dislike characteristics about the person, things they've made or their actions, the same way you can care about you're own life even after you've done something horrible, like murdered someone. It's confusing, but human nature is rather twisted anyway. That's what you get from with a being that contains both good and evil. Though, you're right, hate may be a bit strong. I'm willing to go with extremely dislike. I'll also admit to not being completely rational about it. The whole thing ended up rather horribly, so with me my feelings against Harry Potter are personal. I don't hate JK Rowling because of her books though. Well I'm very curious to hear her opinion.
And it's not like teachers are encouraging their students to get drunk. From a non-religious point of view, it's a little silly to keep the books from kids. And like I said before, we don't keep meat from children who's parents wish them to remain vegetarian. Or at least we didn't when I was a kid. It's too hard to keep track of which children have which restrictions. It's the parent's responsibility to teach the kid to follow their rules. And I realize that kids will be kids and break the rules once in a while. But if the parents feel that strongly about the matter, there's always religious private schools and home schooling. I know at public schools there's an insane ammount of kidlets per teacher and they can't be expected to keep track of and enforce every student's parents' rules.
And I think you hate the series out of fear. And I think you fear it because you were told that you should. There's nothing evil about the books! There's nothing wrong with feeling drawn in by the plot! If you feel nothing when reading a book, then you're probably not reading the right book! XDI'll get it to you if I can. You're putting something in a kids head. A powerful book will influence us for better or worse. If you think Harry Potter is wrong, then you wanna keep it from you're kid to make sure it doesn't have an ill effect. They kinda do now. At the school where my mom teaches, I think they don't put pork in the school lunches because of kids of a certain religion (not Judiasm). And some parents can't do that. My mom can't afford a private school and she has to work because she's divorced. She might've homeschooled us if she didn't have to, but as it is, that wasn't a possiblity. And if they have to learn every kid's name, then should a parent make a request like that, I don't think it would be that difficult to keep track of. I doubt you have that many kids whose parents don't want them to read Harry Potter. I think I hate it out of a negative experience, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If it were a person I'd forgive it, but it's a book, so I'm gonna keep the negative feelings in this case. And I agree! The books I love most are the ones that made me feel something. But I still hold an extreme dislike for Harry Potter and think it's wrong. Agreeing to disagree (you said we should at one point) sounds good.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:44 pm
Shiori Miko xxEternallyBluexx Shoiri:That's not necessarily what I'd strive for. I'd want my writing to have a point, besides being an escape. Then anything you write I'll definately pass on. I read to be entertained. If I want to read to learn something, I'll read my boyfriend's trig book. What I'm saying is there's more important things to write for then just entertainment. You wouldn't live life just to have fun, would you? I'd like my books to be entertaining, but I want them to have something more to them too.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:51 pm
Someoneiknow 4shi Someoneiknow xxEternallyBluexx Kreazdor Christians just seem to attack in some random manner. It's virtually become a religion of hate ever since Jesus died if you ask me. I've heard of christians discussing whether or not yoga is bad just because of some mention of awakening an inner serpent or some odd thing like that. Harry Potter certainly isn't evil, and near impossible to be real for that matter. The Bible probably has more "magic" in it than the entire series! Of course I'm sure most christians wouldn't consider making fire rain from the skies, turning a sea into blood, turning people into pillars of salt, raising people from the dead, etc, etc, as magic. They're probably just trying to attack a Catholic, which somehow differs from Christians in some meaningless yet apparently significant ways. It's this kind of...complete and utter stupidity that convinced me to start looking at other religions around the world... There's key differences. That 'magic' is from God.A big point of not doing magic is we're supposed to rely on God, and not ourselves, which is what faith and miracles are about. I'm sorry you think we're all hater's, but there's nothing wrong with hating a book. If I hated JK Rowling there'd be a problem, but I don't. I just hate her series. But a few pages ago you said you found so much that you liked in the Harry Potter series. Technically, if you hate a person's work, their life and their calling, by default, you hate that person. You can say you dislike, but be careful of the words you use. Hate is a very strong word, and it can all tie in together with everything else. Kind of like how a person may hate wal-mart, but not hate sam walton. Well, Sam Walton made Wal-mart, Wal-mart was his calling and his life, so therefore, by default, you hate Sam Walton. God only hates sin, so unless you think Harry Potter is pure sin, you should be careful about "hating" it. My problem with your argument is that it's oversimplistic. Edgar Allen Poe, for example, is my favorite American author yet I hate certain works of his. I obviously can't hate and love a person at the same time in those instances. Also, there comes the question of how much a work stays as someone's (apart from namesake, copyright, and the like) once it is released into the public. In the frame of your Wal-Mart example, not all Wal-Marts are managed to the letter the same way (though policies are supposed to prevent that). If someone poorly manages a Wal-Mart, the employees are unhappy, and they take it out on the customers. The customers, however, love the better-run Wal-Mart as opposed to the aforementioned Wal-Mart, which they hate. Do they hate the managers, who have taken Sam Walton's work and made it their own in some way? Do they hate Sam Walton since they hate that one Wal-Mart? Or do they just hate the one Wal-Mart for the employees who contributed to the work at hand? I'm taking it from the stance that you should hate nothing but sin. You can hate whatever you want, but I feel that hate is a strong word, and should be used carefully. It is typically used to denote when a person is most angry, and when they want to cause the most harm. So I feel that it should be used sparingly if at all. This pertains to what you said by how I feel you shouldn't say casually that you hate something. And yes, sometimes it isn't necessarily the entity itself that you hate, but say a personality or trait that you hate. But that should be emphasized when you are stating the point, rather than saying you hate the whole thing. Like how in the Harry Potter series, I hate the use of magical entities in the book, or the childish euphamism, rather than the whole book which did take up a lot of J.K. Rowling's time to complete and I think she would be rather proud of it. So by stating that you hate it, if she were there, she would most likely take that as a personal stab against her. Hehe, I doubt she would be too hurt. Her books have thousands of fans and are at the center of many of my generation's fondest childhood memories. And they have, at the same time, people who say that her book is satanic and gather in groups to protest and burn them. I doubt that her day would be ruined if she found out that Eternal didn't like her books. Or at least that she would be any less hurt than if she found out that you hate the use of magical entities in the book.
How do you like the book if you hate the use of magic by the way?
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:56 pm
xxEternallyBluexx Shiori Miko xxEternallyBluexx Shoiri:That's not necessarily what I'd strive for. I'd want my writing to have a point, besides being an escape. Then anything you write I'll definately pass on. I read to be entertained. If I want to read to learn something, I'll read my boyfriend's trig book. What I'm saying is there's more important things to write for then just entertainment. You wouldn't live life just to have fun, would you? I'd like my books to be entertaining, but I want them to have something more to them too. Actually I do live my life just to have fun. My school is fun, my friends are fun, my life is fun. And I am one happy person who is at the top of her class. biggrin
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:17 pm
xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xLady Tsukiyox brainnsoup @Eternal: For most of your points, I'll agree to disagree. But magic is only evil to you. And banning the entire series because it has magic, or banning anything else for faith-related reasons, is wrong because you're forcing your religious beliefs on other people.
@xLady Tsukiyox: Did you change your un? I just now realized. But I don't see anything wrong with her asking her mom to type out her points. She said in the first place that it was her mom who said them. I don't see how it's much different from paraphrasing then providing a source.
Though Eternal, if you're mom won't even let you read Harry Potter, are you sure she'll be okay with you being in this guild? Yeah I did. Typing out -Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden is a bit of a hassle. xD It's a problem because she's not doing it herself. It's like asking someone to type out an English essay. Paraphrasing and giving a source is fine. It shows you did research on what you're debating and it supports your position. @Blue:Or that she'll be okay with you being on Gaia for that matter. Her opinion on the book mostly seems to come from her mom anyway. I'm actually pretty curious to see how she thinks.
But yeah, if Harry Potter is a threat to your faith in your mom's eyes, Eternal, then we're probably much worse. A huge part of being in this guild is having people actively questioning and denying your faith.Being in this guild is a bit hard, but my mom knows what goes on. She doesn't seem to have a problem with it, partly because when it does weaken my faith, I step away from it for a bit and really think about it. As nice as it would be not to worry about secular influences, I niether live nor expect to live in a world like that. Since I don't want to live away from the world, I want to understand it as much as I can without becoming part of it. And yeah, I think you should see that. My mom really thinks about things, and she's passionate about different subjects then I am. I'm not sure how she'll come across over the net, but i know she can explain where she's coming from a lot better the I could. And I didn't say I wanted it banned (though banning a single book isn't the worst thing could happen. I'd be far more worried if society banned a lot of books from the general public, instead of banning a book in a school. School restricts our rights anyway >.<). I just don't think it should be encouraged the way it is. If teachers are told a child isn't allowed to read a book, that should be enforced. @Someone:Good point. To tell the truth we didn't get the internet until this year because my brother abused it. My mom is coming from a place where we could do without it, and if my sister and I hadn't begged her for it for something since we lost it, we probrably would never have gotten it. To tell the truth though, we could lose it rather easily, so it's a privilage to be on here. And as for hating Harry Potter...it's like being a drunk to me. If I were a drunk I'd hate, but I'd be addicted. In a way, I liked the story so much I was addicted. Now I hate it and wouldn't mind watching it burn. I don't hate JK Rowling though. Even if I hate this work, her work is not her. You can love someone even if you dislike characteristics about the person, things they've made or their actions, the same way you can care about you're own life even after you've done something horrible, like murdered someone. It's confusing, but human nature is rather twisted anyway. That's what you get from with a being that contains both good and evil. Though, you're right, hate may be a bit strong. I'm willing to go with extremely dislike. I'll also admit to not being completely rational about it. The whole thing ended up rather horribly, so with me my feelings against Harry Potter are personal. I don't hate JK Rowling because of her books though. Well I'm very curious to hear her opinion.
And it's not like teachers are encouraging their students to get drunk. From a non-religious point of view, it's a little silly to keep the books from kids. And like I said before, we don't keep meat from children who's parents wish them to remain vegetarian. Or at least we didn't when I was a kid. It's too hard to keep track of which children have which restrictions. It's the parent's responsibility to teach the kid to follow their rules. And I realize that kids will be kids and break the rules once in a while. But if the parents feel that strongly about the matter, there's always religious private schools and home schooling. I know at public schools there's an insane ammount of kidlets per teacher and they can't be expected to keep track of and enforce every student's parents' rules.
And I think you hate the series out of fear. And I think you fear it because you were told that you should. There's nothing evil about the books! There's nothing wrong with feeling drawn in by the plot! If you feel nothing when reading a book, then you're probably not reading the right book! XDI'll get it to you if I can. You're putting something in a kids head. A powerful book will influence us for better or worse. If you think Harry Potter is wrong, then you wanna keep it from you're kid to make sure it doesn't have an ill effect. They kinda do now. At the school where my mom teaches, I think they don't put pork in the school lunches because of kids of a certain religion (not Judiasm). And some parents can't do that. My mom can't afford a private school and she has to work because she's divorced. She might've homeschooled us if she didn't have to, but as it is, that wasn't a possiblity. And if they have to learn every kid's name, then should a parent make a request like that, I don't think it would be that difficult to keep track of. I doubt you have that many kids whose parents don't want them to read Harry Potter. I think I hate it out of a negative experience, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If it were a person I'd forgive it, but it's a book, so I'm gonna keep the negative feelings in this case. And I agree! The books I love most are the ones that made me feel something. But I still hold an extreme dislike for Harry Potter and think it's wrong. Agreeing to disagree (you said we should at one point) sounds good. Don't bother yourself with it if it's a hassle. It would be interesting, but if she's busy or something then that's fine. I just see no problem with you quoting her exact words to help your point.
Islam? Either way, I'm glad they started doing that. Before that must have been really hard on parents who want to keep their children from eating pork. What age group does your mom teach?
And learning a kid's name is different. It's a high priority. Then I'd assume under that are allergies and health coniditions. But though maybe one or two kids aren't allowed to read Harry Potter, one or two other kids aren't allowed to read Narnia because of the Christian themes. Each parent is going to have some set of rules at the same priority as keeping Harry Potter away from kids that they would like enforced.
One of my friends wants to go into elementary school education. She said they have so many students per teacher that it's hard enough to make sure that they're following the school rules and are safe and that it's impossible to give each one individual attention.
Besides, I've yet to hear of one kid who seriously actually turned to witchcraft because of reading Harry Potter.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:17 pm
Shiori Miko xxEternallyBluexx Shiori Miko xxEternallyBluexx Shoiri:That's not necessarily what I'd strive for. I'd want my writing to have a point, besides being an escape. Then anything you write I'll definately pass on. I read to be entertained. If I want to read to learn something, I'll read my boyfriend's trig book. What I'm saying is there's more important things to write for then just entertainment. You wouldn't live life just to have fun, would you? I'd like my books to be entertaining, but I want them to have something more to them too. Actually I do live my life just to have fun. My school is fun, my friends are fun, my life is fun. And I am one happy person who is at the top of her class. biggrin Well you can do that if you wish, but I think there's more important things to life then having fun. And rofl brainnsoup! I have no doubt you're right. She'd hardly care.
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:34 pm
brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup xxEternallyBluexx brainnsoup Her opinion on the book mostly seems to come from her mom anyway. I'm actually pretty curious to see how she thinks.
But yeah, if Harry Potter is a threat to your faith in your mom's eyes, Eternal, then we're probably much worse. A huge part of being in this guild is having people actively questioning and denying your faith. Being in this guild is a bit hard, but my mom knows what goes on. She doesn't seem to have a problem with it, partly because when it does weaken my faith, I step away from it for a bit and really think about it. As nice as it would be not to worry about secular influences, I niether live nor expect to live in a world like that. Since I don't want to live away from the world, I want to understand it as much as I can without becoming part of it. And yeah, I think you should see that. My mom really thinks about things, and she's passionate about different subjects then I am. I'm not sure how she'll come across over the net, but i know she can explain where she's coming from a lot better the I could. And I didn't say I wanted it banned (though banning a single book isn't the worst thing could happen. I'd be far more worried if society banned a lot of books from the general public, instead of banning a book in a school. School restricts our rights anyway >.<). I just don't think it should be encouraged the way it is. If teachers are told a child isn't allowed to read a book, that should be enforced. @Someone:Good point. To tell the truth we didn't get the internet until this year because my brother abused it. My mom is coming from a place where we could do without it, and if my sister and I hadn't begged her for it for something since we lost it, we probrably would never have gotten it. To tell the truth though, we could lose it rather easily, so it's a privilage to be on here. And as for hating Harry Potter...it's like being a drunk to me. If I were a drunk I'd hate, but I'd be addicted. In a way, I liked the story so much I was addicted. Now I hate it and wouldn't mind watching it burn. I don't hate JK Rowling though. Even if I hate this work, her work is not her. You can love someone even if you dislike characteristics about the person, things they've made or their actions, the same way you can care about you're own life even after you've done something horrible, like murdered someone. It's confusing, but human nature is rather twisted anyway. That's what you get from with a being that contains both good and evil. Though, you're right, hate may be a bit strong. I'm willing to go with extremely dislike. I'll also admit to not being completely rational about it. The whole thing ended up rather horribly, so with me my feelings against Harry Potter are personal. I don't hate JK Rowling because of her books though. Well I'm very curious to hear her opinion.
And it's not like teachers are encouraging their students to get drunk. From a non-religious point of view, it's a little silly to keep the books from kids. And like I said before, we don't keep meat from children who's parents wish them to remain vegetarian. Or at least we didn't when I was a kid. It's too hard to keep track of which children have which restrictions. It's the parent's responsibility to teach the kid to follow their rules. And I realize that kids will be kids and break the rules once in a while. But if the parents feel that strongly about the matter, there's always religious private schools and home schooling. I know at public schools there's an insane ammount of kidlets per teacher and they can't be expected to keep track of and enforce every student's parents' rules.
And I think you hate the series out of fear. And I think you fear it because you were told that you should. There's nothing evil about the books! There's nothing wrong with feeling drawn in by the plot! If you feel nothing when reading a book, then you're probably not reading the right book! XDI'll get it to you if I can. You're putting something in a kids head. A powerful book will influence us for better or worse. If you think Harry Potter is wrong, then you wanna keep it from you're kid to make sure it doesn't have an ill effect. They kinda do now. At the school where my mom teaches, I think they don't put pork in the school lunches because of kids of a certain religion (not Judiasm). And some parents can't do that. My mom can't afford a private school and she has to work because she's divorced. She might've homeschooled us if she didn't have to, but as it is, that wasn't a possiblity. And if they have to learn every kid's name, then should a parent make a request like that, I don't think it would be that difficult to keep track of. I doubt you have that many kids whose parents don't want them to read Harry Potter. I think I hate it out of a negative experience, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If it were a person I'd forgive it, but it's a book, so I'm gonna keep the negative feelings in this case. And I agree! The books I love most are the ones that made me feel something. But I still hold an extreme dislike for Harry Potter and think it's wrong. Agreeing to disagree (you said we should at one point) sounds good. Don't bother yourself with it if it's a hassle. It would be interesting, but if she's busy or something then that's fine. I just see no problem with you quoting her exact words to help your point.
Islam? Either way, I'm glad they started doing that. Before that must have been really hard on parents who want to keep their children from eating pork. What age group does your mom teach?
And learning a kid's name is different. It's a high priority. Then I'd assume under that are allergies and health coniditions. But though maybe one or two kids aren't allowed to read Harry Potter, one or two other kids aren't allowed to read Narnia because of the Christian themes. Each parent is going to have some set of rules at the same priority as keeping Harry Potter away from kids that they would like enforced.
One of my friends wants to go into elementary school education. She said they have so many students per teacher that it's hard enough to make sure that they're following the school rules and are safe and that it's impossible to give each one individual attention.
Besides, I've yet to hear of one kid who seriously actually turned to witchcraft because of reading Harry Potter.It'd be more of a hassle because I doubt I can actually get her to sit down and type. She doesn't especially like computers. I think I'll have her write it out, and I'll type it. They had a large population of (Islamic? I think that's it, but I can't be sure) kids. And she teaches elementary reading, though I think she's certified for more then that. She teaches in the inner city, which should probrably worry me, but strangely doesn't. Questionable books could be set at the corner of a shelf, and there could be a list the teacher/librarians keep. I doubt it'd be that hard to enforce, especially in an elementary school classroom, where the teacher has about 20 kids they see every day. Is 20 kids to a teacher a lot? That's the ratio around here, but it could be different elsewhere. And the parents involvement makes a huge difference. In the inner city they have a fight a day, and the kids were talking at one point about how many friends they had that were dead. One of my mom's students tried to rob her until she recognized him. It's a lot different here, where the worst most kids do is skip class occasionally. And that's still comparing elementary to high school. I think one of the links I put up had some stories on it. I could try to find it again...
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:36 pm
Someoneiknow 4shi Someoneiknow xxEternallyBluexx Kreazdor Christians just seem to attack in some random manner. It's virtually become a religion of hate ever since Jesus died if you ask me. I've heard of christians discussing whether or not yoga is bad just because of some mention of awakening an inner serpent or some odd thing like that. Harry Potter certainly isn't evil, and near impossible to be real for that matter. The Bible probably has more "magic" in it than the entire series! Of course I'm sure most christians wouldn't consider making fire rain from the skies, turning a sea into blood, turning people into pillars of salt, raising people from the dead, etc, etc, as magic. They're probably just trying to attack a Catholic, which somehow differs from Christians in some meaningless yet apparently significant ways. It's this kind of...complete and utter stupidity that convinced me to start looking at other religions around the world... There's key differences. That 'magic' is from God.A big point of not doing magic is we're supposed to rely on God, and not ourselves, which is what faith and miracles are about. I'm sorry you think we're all hater's, but there's nothing wrong with hating a book. If I hated JK Rowling there'd be a problem, but I don't. I just hate her series. But a few pages ago you said you found so much that you liked in the Harry Potter series. Technically, if you hate a person's work, their life and their calling, by default, you hate that person. You can say you dislike, but be careful of the words you use. Hate is a very strong word, and it can all tie in together with everything else. Kind of like how a person may hate wal-mart, but not hate sam walton. Well, Sam Walton made Wal-mart, Wal-mart was his calling and his life, so therefore, by default, you hate Sam Walton. God only hates sin, so unless you think Harry Potter is pure sin, you should be careful about "hating" it. My problem with your argument is that it's oversimplistic. Edgar Allen Poe, for example, is my favorite American author yet I hate certain works of his. I obviously can't hate and love a person at the same time in those instances. Also, there comes the question of how much a work stays as someone's (apart from namesake, copyright, and the like) once it is released into the public. In the frame of your Wal-Mart example, not all Wal-Marts are managed to the letter the same way (though policies are supposed to prevent that). If someone poorly manages a Wal-Mart, the employees are unhappy, and they take it out on the customers. The customers, however, love the better-run Wal-Mart as opposed to the aforementioned Wal-Mart, which they hate. Do they hate the managers, who have taken Sam Walton's work and made it their own in some way? Do they hate Sam Walton since they hate that one Wal-Mart? Or do they just hate the one Wal-Mart for the employees who contributed to the work at hand? I'm taking it from the stance that you should hate nothing but sin. You can hate whatever you want, but I feel that hate is a strong word, and should be used carefully. It is typically used to denote when a person is most angry, and when they want to cause the most harm. So I feel that it should be used sparingly if at all. This pertains to what you said by how I feel you shouldn't say casually that you hate something. And yes, sometimes it isn't necessarily the entity itself that you hate, but say a personality or trait that you hate. But that should be emphasized when you are stating the point, rather than saying you hate the whole thing. Like how in the Harry Potter series, I hate the use of magical entities in the book, or the childish euphamism, rather than the whole book which did take up a lot of J.K. Rowling's time to complete and I think she would be rather proud of it. So by stating that you hate it, if she were there, she would most likely take that as a personal stab against her. Hating only sin wasn't your argument at all. Your argument was, "hate the work, hate the person". Even when you change it to "dislike" you are still disliking the person by your argument, regardless if you just dislike certain details. That's what was oversimplistic about it. Also, didn't Rowling write the individual books over a span of a couple of years? Wasn't it something like seven books in a decade? I don't know which writers you've spoken with, but that's cranking it out for a series! Also, writers have to learn to set their feelings aside about a work. If you can't remove your ego from your art, you don't belong in that area.
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