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Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:12 pm
There are just plain greedy bisexuals, but I'm not advocating that. I'm just saying, is there really anything wrong with wanting to be with someone based on their personality, and let the sexuality fall where it may?
I don't think their is anything wrong with that. But I think it really depends on the person and how they feel about it if they think its wrong or not.
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:25 pm
PrometheanSet Anthropological texts became desirable for this topic when you asserted that my friend's "nonsense" was ghastly - a less ethnocentric approach from a still slightly ethnocentric discipline adds context to your lack of understanding towards those around us. You waived your "lack of obligation" to judge what people should be when you made a judgment - ghastly, you called my friend and his practices. His happiness, and that of his partners is not really debatable, being a subjective thing (though he is vocal about it); nor irrelevant, as people are not very happy in situations which are antithetical to who they are and how they wish to live - the contrapositive of that last statement being his situation. His joy illustrates that he and his partners are *not* abominations, but rather just other people using their right to pursue happiness as they see fit. As you'll notice, at least two of those partners are the same gender. The other is not. All are satisfied. Polyamorous bisexuality, in this instance, both exists and *works* for the participants sexual and emotional satisfaction. What else is there to examine that isn't just some religious dogma that may or may not apply to these people? I'm afraid that it does no such thing, whilst anthropology exists- in the greater part- to test psychological and by extension sexological theory it is far beyond it to provide such counterproof as you attest to. I do not determine that such as those you associate with myself should differ from myself, I presume all to be fundamentally human. This is the assumption of all of the human sciences- most notably your anthropology. That heroin makes people very happy is no argument that it may be right or worse the natural order of things. So long as the concept of polyamory remains oxymoronic there is indeed little to examine for myself, as I am in no position or of any inclination to make an exam towards their wholesome correction.
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:16 pm
CH1YO PrometheanSet Anthropological texts became desirable for this topic when you asserted that my friend's "nonsense" was ghastly - a less ethnocentric approach from a still slightly ethnocentric discipline adds context to your lack of understanding towards those around us. You waived your "lack of obligation" to judge what people should be when you made a judgment - ghastly, you called my friend and his practices. His happiness, and that of his partners is not really debatable, being a subjective thing (though he is vocal about it); nor irrelevant, as people are not very happy in situations which are antithetical to who they are and how they wish to live - the contrapositive of that last statement being his situation. His joy illustrates that he and his partners are *not* abominations, but rather just other people using their right to pursue happiness as they see fit. As you'll notice, at least two of those partners are the same gender. The other is not. All are satisfied. Polyamorous bisexuality, in this instance, both exists and *works* for the participants sexual and emotional satisfaction. What else is there to examine that isn't just some religious dogma that may or may not apply to these people? I'm afraid that it does no such thing, whilst anthropology exists- in the greater part- to test psychological and by extension sexological theory it is far beyond it to provide such counterproof as you attest to. Prove it, or you're just babbling through a keyboard. CH1YO I do not determine that such as those you associate with myself should differ from myself, I presume all to be fundamentally human. This is the assumption of all of the human sciences- most notably your anthropology. That heroin makes people very happy is no argument that it may be right or worse the natural order of things. No, but the argument that the phenomena of polyamory, polygamy, and bisexuality are *not* limited to our culture (as shown by those anthropology texts) does undercut your notion that they are somehow "ghastly" in any objective sense. Your own sources paint these phenomena as predating monogamy, though I think that's a bit of an ethnocentric assertion from Freud which neglects the way societies adapt to varying situations. CH1YO So long as the concept of polyamory remains oxymoronic there is indeed little to examine for myself, as I am in no position or of any inclination to make an exam towards their wholesome correction. Lulz. You're funny. xd You are the only one here who thinks polyamory, polygamy, or bisexuality is an oxymoron. You're going to have an uphill battle proving any of that with your outdated sources. That goes doubly so for your assumption that anything mentioned needs "correction".
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:28 pm
PrometheanSet... I like you. blaugh
@CH1YO: "Polyamory" is an oxymoron? Because "multiple" and "love" don't go together? I have several friends who would beg to differ.
Even if it IS an oxymoron, though, I don't think you realize that an oxymoron is two seemingly incongruous things. That doesn't mean that they don't make sense. For example, there are a lot of "stupid geniuses" in the world (honestly, I'm one of them), and I've been through and awful lot of "deafening silences" in my life.
I fail to see how "polyamory" being an oxymoron would negate it in any way.
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:42 pm
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I think I see how the "no bisexuals are polygamists" thing works.
I think, traditionally, polygamy implies a heterosexual marriage with multiple partners, but the multiple male or female spouses generally do not sleep with each other, just the single male or female spouse. Which isn't bisexuality.
Still, there are cases of, for example, a man married to a woman married to a woman (i.e. the woman has both a husband and a wife) and since this involves marriage... isn't that polygamy?
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:37 pm
PrometheanSet Prove it, or you're just babbling through a keyboard. *cites the legendary Margaret Mead's "growing up in New Guinea" (the postscript I believe)* PrometheanSet No, but the argument that the phenomena of polyamory, polygamy, and bisexuality are *not* limited to our culture (as shown by those anthropology texts) does undercut your notion that they are somehow "ghastly" in any objective sense. Your own sources paint these phenomena as predating monogamy, though I think that's a bit of an ethnocentric assertion from Freud which neglects the way societies adapt to varying situations. Polyamory doesn't exist, polygamy by necessity is junior to monogamy and bisexuality is the human condition. PrometheanSet Lulz. You're funny. xd You are the only one here who thinks polyamory, polygamy, or bisexuality is an oxymoron. You're going to have an uphill battle proving any of that with your outdated sources. That goes doubly so for your assumption that anything mentioned needs "correction". Only polyamory. Mistaken assumption warrants correction, need is far too absolute a term.
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:41 pm
alteregoivy PrometheanSet... I like you. blaugh @CH1YO: "Polyamory" is an oxymoron? Because "multiple" and "love" don't go together? I have several friends who would beg to differ. Even if it IS an oxymoron, though, I don't think you realize that an oxymoron is two seemingly incongruous things. That doesn't mean that they don't make sense. For example, there are a lot of "stupid geniuses" in the world (honestly, I'm one of them), and I've been through and awful lot of "deafening silences" in my life. I fail to see how "polyamory" being an oxymoron would negate it in any way. Beggars can't be choosers. Neither of those is a true oxymoron, they can exist with each component entity having a differing frame of reference. An oxymoron cannot exist, it is simply not feasible outside of the realm of ideas.
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:43 pm
alteregoivy Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I think I see how the "no bisexuals are polygamists" thing works. I think, traditionally, polygamy implies a heterosexual marriage with multiple partners, but the multiple male or female spouses generally do not sleep with each other, just the single male or female spouse. Which isn't bisexuality. Still, there are cases of, for example, a man married to a woman married to a woman (i.e. the woman has both a husband and a wife) and since this involves marriage... isn't that polygamy? It's that no bisexuals are polyamorous, on the grounds that it's a wholly theoretical state. The confusion with polygamy was introduced for reasons that can't but have been impish wickedness.
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:23 pm
CH1YO PrometheanSet Prove it, or you're just babbling through a keyboard. *cites the legendary Margaret Mead's "growing up in New Guinea" (the postscript I believe)* Margaret Mead and Samoa: The Making and Unmaking of an Anthropological Myth was written by her advisor, Derek Freedman, and published five years after her death. Basically, he went behind her, interviewed some of the same people she did, who acknowledged treating Mead as the gullible idiot in the village, and other issues with her work. Enough questions remain about *both* Freeman and Mead's work that the field has abandoned both individuals' work on the subject. CH1YO PrometheanSet No, but the argument that the phenomena of polyamory, polygamy, and bisexuality are *not* limited to our culture (as shown by those anthropology texts) does undercut your notion that they are somehow "ghastly" in any objective sense. Your own sources paint these phenomena as predating monogamy, though I think that's a bit of an ethnocentric assertion from Freud which neglects the way societies adapt to varying situations. Polyamory doesn't exist, polygamy by necessity is junior to monogamy and bisexuality is the human condition. Tell that bit about polyamory to my friend Pops, whose situation you described as "ghastly". Tell that bit about polygamy being junior to a fundamentalist Mormon who disregards the law in favor of his prophet's original teachings. And tell that bit about bisexuality to a neuroscientist. All will laugh at you. CH1YO PrometheanSet Lulz. You're funny. xd You are the only one here who thinks polyamory, polygamy, or bisexuality is an oxymoron. You're going to have an uphill battle proving any of that with your outdated sources. That goes doubly so for your assumption that anything mentioned needs "correction". Only polyamory. Mistaken assumption warrants correction, need is far too absolute a term. And regardless of your now refined position, you have yet to deal with evidence. Polyamory is depicted in movies - "which man do I choose?" Or we may look among real life swingers and wife swappers, for whom one partner just leads to a stale sex life. My self-described monogamous friend Richard talks openly of dating more than one person at once, then dropping the rest when one gets particularly serious. The stereotypical male fantasy of "having sex with two women at once" is another example, alongside Pops. Male Elephants and Baboons only hang around the female herds when its mating season, and they don't have their eye on one female in particular if you understand my meaning. All these examples are, to one extent or another, polyamory.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:33 am
CH1YO The confusion with polygamy was introduced for reasons that can't but have been impish wickedness. ...How well do you know English? Seriously, you make zero sense.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:36 am
PrometheanSet Margaret Mead and Samoa: The Making and Unmaking of an Anthropological Myth was written by her advisor, Derek Freedman, and published five years after her death. Basically, he went behind her, interviewed some of the same people she did, who acknowledged treating Mead as the gullible idiot in the village, and other issues with her work. Enough questions remain about *both* Freeman and Mead's work that the field has abandoned both individuals' work on the subject. Ageing Samoans have little impact upon the actions of Manus children. Not that her perfectly reasonable methodology has any bearing upon the purpose of the study of anthropology- which of course was wholly the topic at hand. PrometheanSet Tell that bit about polyamory to my friend Pops, whose situation you described as "ghastly". Tell that bit about polygamy being junior to a fundamentalist Mormon who disregards the law in favor of his prophet's original teachings. And tell that bit about bisexuality to a neuroscientist. All will laugh at you. Pops being easily amused is not any sort of argument, he simply doesn't know any better. Does this charming Mormon honestly believe that Joseph Smith invented marriage and in a polygamous manner? Surely polygamy cannot come about before the invention of monogamy. What fool of a neuroscientist is this? Honestly this matter is neither his business nor his field. PrometheanSet And regardless of your now refined position, you have yet to deal with evidence. Polyamory is depicted in movies - "which man do I choose?" Or we may look among real life swingers and wife swappers, for whom one partner just leads to a stale sex life. My self-described monogamous friend Richard talks openly of dating more than one person at once, then dropping the rest when one gets particularly serious. The stereotypical male fantasy of "having sex with two women at once" is another example, alongside Pops. Male Elephants and Baboons only hang around the female herds when its mating season, and they don't have their eye on one female in particular if you understand my meaning. All these examples are, to one extent or another, polyamory. This has ever been my position, the absurdities have not been introduced by myself. None of that is polyamory, that is sexual promiscuity and lasciviousness. Stating that elephants and baboons are not terribly romantic hardly figures into discussion, I have no sensible idea of why they formed a part of your contribution.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:37 am
alteregoivy CH1YO The confusion with polygamy was introduced for reasons that can't but have been impish wickedness. ...How well do you know English? Seriously, you make zero sense. Somewhat better than yourself, it would appear.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:28 pm
CH1YO PrometheanSet Margaret Mead and Samoa: The Making and Unmaking of an Anthropological Myth was written by her advisor, Derek Freedman, and published five years after her death. Basically, he went behind her, interviewed some of the same people she did, who acknowledged treating Mead as the gullible idiot in the village, and other issues with her work. Enough questions remain about *both* Freeman and Mead's work that the field has abandoned both individuals' work on the subject. Ageing Samoans have little impact upon the actions of Manus children. Not that her perfectly reasonable methodology has any bearing upon the purpose of the study of anthropology- which of course was wholly the topic at hand. Its actually a known hazard in Anthropology some of your "objects of study" will make jokes at your expense. Bedouin groups are known for telling unwary Anthropologists that they are to be welcomed with this high honor, the special honored soup - eyeball soup. So the Anthropologist, not wanting to be rude, will eat it - meanwhile the Bedouin are hiding behind a tent, trying to contain their laughter to a level where they won't get caught. The only defense for it is to observe how that people joke before directly interacting with the people, or at least accounting that pattern in your analysis. This is where her methodology fell short. CH1YO PrometheanSet Tell that bit about polyamory to my friend Pops, whose situation you described as "ghastly". Tell that bit about polygamy being junior to a fundamentalist Mormon who disregards the law in favor of his prophet's original teachings. And tell that bit about bisexuality to a neuroscientist. All will laugh at you. Pops being easily amused is not any sort of argument, he simply doesn't know any better. Does this charming Mormon honestly believe that Joseph Smith invented marriage and in a polygamous manner? Surely polygamy cannot come about before the invention of monogamy. What fool of a neuroscientist is this? Honestly this matter is neither his business nor his field. Pops would be amused at your presumptuousness. You would tell him how to live, just like any proselytizer, and rationalize it away as something based in objectivity. The example of the Mormon polygamist wasn't that Joseph invented polygamy, but that his concept of God decrees that marriage should be conducted in this way - which will involve love for all of his partners. The neuroscientist? That was an analogy. You behavior is consistent with someone that would try to use Phrenology, a laughable pseudoscience, to try to refute modern Neuroscience. CH1YO PrometheanSet And regardless of your now refined position, you have yet to deal with evidence. Polyamory is depicted in movies - "which man do I choose?" Or we may look among real life swingers and wife swappers, for whom one partner just leads to a stale sex life. My self-described monogamous friend Richard talks openly of dating more than one person at once, then dropping the rest when one gets particularly serious. The stereotypical male fantasy of "having sex with two women at once" is another example, alongside Pops. Male Elephants and Baboons only hang around the female herds when its mating season, and they don't have their eye on one female in particular if you understand my meaning. All these examples are, to one extent or another, polyamory. This has ever been my position, the absurdities have not been introduced by myself. None of that is polyamory, that is sexual promiscuity and lasciviousness. Stating that elephants and baboons are not terribly romantic hardly figures into discussion, I have no sensible idea of why they formed a part of your contribution. You might need a Dictionary, sweetie. The baboons and elephants? They're there as an example of polyamorous behavior in the Animal Kingdom, outside of human social constraints. It's perfectly natural.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:15 pm
CH1YO alteregoivy CH1YO The confusion with polygamy was introduced for reasons that can't but have been impish wickedness. ...How well do you know English? Seriously, you make zero sense. Somewhat better than yourself, it would appear. Then can you explain to me what "can't but have been impish wickedness" means? It sounds like something out of a spam e-mail. I would argue that, no, you do not know English better than I do. You ignore rules of grammar on a regular basis to string random long words together, pretending that they make sense. Well, they don't make sense and create a lot of confusion in every single thread I have seen you join in this guild. I don't know if you are being pretentious on purpose just for this guild, or if this is really the way you speak. If it is, you had better "dumb" your language down, or you will never be understood very well.
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:12 pm
PrometheanSet Its actually a known hazard in Anthropology some of your "objects of study" will make jokes at your expense. Bedouin groups are known for telling unwary Anthropologists that they are to be welcomed with this high honor, the special honored soup - eyeball soup. So the Anthropologist, not wanting to be rude, will eat it - meanwhile the Bedouin are hiding behind a tent, trying to contain their laughter to a level where they won't get caught. The only defense for it is to observe how that people joke before directly interacting with the people, or at least accounting that pattern in your analysis. This is where her methodology fell short. Filthy Arabs still cannot influence the simple fact that doctor Mead was fully and properly informed of the nature and purpose of anthropology as is the pertinent issue here. PrometheanSet Pops would be amused at your presumptuousness. You would tell him how to live, just like any proselytizer, and rationalize it away as something based in objectivity. The example of the Mormon polygamist wasn't that Joseph invented polygamy, but that his concept of God decrees that marriage should be conducted in this way - which will involve love for all of his partners. The neuroscientist? That was an analogy. You behavior is consistent with someone that would try to use Phrenology, a laughable pseudoscience, to try to refute modern Neuroscience. Pops is far too easily amused, is he in some way markedly deficient of character or wit? That fails to address the point that monogamy is senior to polygamy. Certainly there are people who favour polygamous relationships or that will even hold claim to polyamory but claims of vested interest hold little water. Perish the thought- they are both worth next to nothing in the human sciences. Such is the nature of being fundamentally the same discipline. PrometheanSet You might need a Dictionary, sweetie. The baboons and elephants? They're there as an example of polyamorous behavior in the Animal Kingdom, outside of human social constraints. It's perfectly natural. Human social constraints being natural and the apparence of monogamous relationships in the animal kingdom aside, one cannot have polyamory without amor; the dictionary fails in it's oversimplification.
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