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 Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:09 am
DasUberGuy Mr.Mxyzptlk DasUberGuy No, Majin Buu could destroy the universe. In the episode "Rip in the universe" his vibrational energies were threatening to collapse all the dimensional barriers and destroy the universe, Dende and the Kais said so. He was stopped when Vegeto punched him. And Goku has never demonstrated the ability to destroy a galaxy, the closest is when he beat Brolly, but that was non - canon. Well he couldn't destroy the universe with ki, of course. No one in DBZ or GT is that powerful. However, he could destroy the universe with his vibrational power. I don't think we should use GT in debates anyway, the characters are significantly weaker than in DBZ and there are so many inconsistencies and plot holes, not to mention it's non canon, it just makes debating it impossible.
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:12 am
DasUberGuy Saiyan Master Vegeta Mr.Mxyzptlk Saiyan Master Vegeta Mr.Mxyzptlk Saiyan Master Vegeta I was thinking somewhere around the Mr. Buu to Super Buu level. I'd say that Mr. Buu roughly equals SSJ2, and Super Buu roughly equals SSJ3. Alright, now which one would you agree is more suitable for being able to destroy a galaxy: Mr. Buu or Super Buu? Okay, so would you agree that SSJ3 Goku has the ability to destroy a galaxy, considering that SSJ3 is the rough equivalent of Super Buu? No, he never demonstrated any feats that put him on galaxy level. Perhaps if he could master Buu's vibrational energy trick he could, but other than that I don't see him destroying a galaxy. Goku could destroy a Solar System as SSJ2, which has already been proved. So a galaxy as SSJ3 isn't that impossible. Plus, Lii Shenron could nuke the universe, and SSJ4 with the Dragonballs surpassed him anyway, so SSJ3 destroying a galaxy fits in perfectly.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:13 am
Saiyan Master Vegeta DasUberGuy Mr.Mxyzptlk DasUberGuy No, Majin Buu could destroy the universe. In the episode "Rip in the universe" his vibrational energies were threatening to collapse all the dimensional barriers and destroy the universe, Dende and the Kais said so. He was stopped when Vegeto punched him. And Goku has never demonstrated the ability to destroy a galaxy, the closest is when he beat Brolly, but that was non - canon. Well he couldn't destroy the universe with ki, of course. No one in DBZ or GT is that powerful. However, he could destroy the universe with his vibrational power. I don't think we should use GT in debates anyway, the characters are significantly weaker than in DBZ and there are so many inconsistencies and plot holes, not to mention it's non canon, it just makes debating it impossible. Actually, it's not impossible to reach conclusions about GT. It's not as contradicting as you may think. Plus, GT is rather reasonable if you consider more aspects about it. And it should be canon. Just because Toriyama didn't have a huge part in it doesn't mean we should exclude it. The storyline isn't that unbelievable. Goku acting like a kid even though he was really an adult in mind? Vegeta growing a mustache even though it's stated that Saiyans never grow their hair? All the villains coming back even though the dragon declared they wouldn't come back? Sorry, it is unbelievable.
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:14 am
Saiyan Master Vegeta DasUberGuy Saiyan Master Vegeta Mr.Mxyzptlk Saiyan Master Vegeta Alright, now which one would you agree is more suitable for being able to destroy a galaxy: Mr. Buu or Super Buu? Okay, so would you agree that SSJ3 Goku has the ability to destroy a galaxy, considering that SSJ3 is the rough equivalent of Super Buu? No, he never demonstrated any feats that put him on galaxy level. Perhaps if he could master Buu's vibrational energy trick he could, but other than that I don't see him destroying a galaxy. Goku could destroy a Solar System as SSJ2, which has already been proved. So a galaxy as SSJ3 isn't that impossible. Plus, Lii Shenron could nuke the universe, and SSJ4 with the Dragonballs surpassed him anyway, so SSJ3 destroying a galaxy fits in perfectly.
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:15 am
Saiyan Master Vegeta DasUberGuy Saiyan Master Vegeta Mr.Mxyzptlk Saiyan Master Vegeta Alright, now which one would you agree is more suitable for being able to destroy a galaxy: Mr. Buu or Super Buu? Okay, so would you agree that SSJ3 Goku has the ability to destroy a galaxy, considering that SSJ3 is the rough equivalent of Super Buu? No, he never demonstrated any feats that put him on galaxy level. Perhaps if he could master Buu's vibrational energy trick he could, but other than that I don't see him destroying a galaxy. Goku could destroy a Solar System as SSJ2, which has already been proved. So a galaxy as SSJ3 isn't that impossible. Plus, Lii Shenron could nuke the universe, and SSJ4 with the Dragonballs surpassed him anyway, so SSJ3 destroying a galaxy fits in perfectly. Do you have any idea how many solar systems are in a galaxy? 100 billion. That's 100,000,000,000. Big difference between a solar system and a galaxy. And the uber Shenron could only destroy the universe through some weird negative energy chain reaction, not through a direct attack. And we have no idea how powerful Goku was after he absorbed the dragonballs, so that form is undebatable.
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:16 am
Vegeta's moustache is the only one on that list that is completely contradicting. Either way, it's minor.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:17 am
Holy.....*falls over laughing so hard his ribs began to hurt* Nappa was born with a mustache!!!!!!! rofl
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:19 am
Alright, with that said, I'd be willing to keep SSJ4 at the level of destroying a galaxy.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:20 am
Mr.Mxyzptlk Holy.....*falls over laughing so hard his ribs began to hurt* Nappa was born with a mustache!!!!!!! rofl Born with a mustache, or just ended up growing one?
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:24 am
Born with one. Saiyan hair doesn't change since they were born.
So he was born with a mustache.
And SSJ4 is weaker than SSJ3, SSJ4 could probably only destroy a solar system.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:25 am
DasUberGuy Born with one. Saiyan hair doesn't change since they were born. So he was born with a mustache. And SSJ4 is weaker than SSJ3, SSJ4 could probably only destroy a solar system. Give me some examples of SSJ4 being weaker than SSJ3.
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:29 am
When Goku powered up to SSJ3 he shook the afterlife. SSJ4 didn't even shake the local area.
SSJ4 had trouble lifting a city block in one episode, and had trouble lifting a building in another episode.
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Saiyan Master Vegeta Crew
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:11 pm
DasUberGuy When Goku powered up to SSJ3 he shook the afterlife. SSJ4 didn't even shake the local area. SSJ4 had trouble lifting a city block in one episode, and had trouble lifting a building in another episode. Alright, here's my responses: 1 - SSJ4 could have easily been more contained. When Goku used SSJ3, he barely knew how to control it, and SSJ4 could have naturally been more controled. The level of eruption proves nothing anyway. 2 - The reason he "supposedly" had trouble lifting the building: There were people inside the building. If Goku stopped the building too abruptly, many people inside could have been injured and possibly killed. Because of Goku's life-loving personality, he chose to spare as many lives as possible by bringing the building down extremely slow, which is mistaken for a weakness. Lastly, many people in GT commented that SSJ4 is Goku's peak strength, and that he has never been stronger. This includes Gohan, Trunks, Goten and Piccolo. They have all seen Goku in his previous levels, and obviously know what they're talking about. Even Goku commented that he had never felt stronger in his life before.
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:26 am
1. Except every time we've seen a powerup in the DBU it causes huge energy reactions and shakes everything all over. There's no reason SSJ4 would be different, that's just how DBU ki power works.
2. Then how come it looked like he was struggling with it?
3. Dialogue in GT is unreliable because GT has so many plot holes and inconsistencies.
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:26 am
Mr.Mxyzptlk I'd like to point out that Super Android 17 was in fact only as powerful as the original Android 17. It was the fact he could absorb Ki that he kicked SSJ4 Goku's a**. and only got stronger by absorbing the 10x Kamehameha but super 17 is actualy a bit sronger the the two 17 though
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