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 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:10 pm
The Lady Giyan XRedSamuraiX Thats what why I love wraiths, I can't stand the retard who decided that those scrawny little things deserve a 6 strenght, but thier cheap 3+ invunerable save is very fun to know out with a DaemonHunters army...(as you may know, they have lots of invunerable punching weapons.) Any way, like I've said before If I did play necrons and did bring a C'tan...it wouldn't be the Nightbringer...most armies have thier one thier one "nightbringer assasin" plan which they can easily take out 360 points, A.K.A a big chunk of your necron army of the table easily. Me being Daemonhunters would therefore resort too my assasins for that job as 2 of the 4 could beat that thing up in combat to the point of either complete death, or enough to take him out next turn easily. While one more could take him...it just might take a while. My callidus for example... Polymorphine...comes in, can move and assault that turn...so move, shoot my neural shredder which would be a template shot so auto hit, 6+ wound (off chance but no saves,) so lets say I don't wound, She assaults and goes first (5 initiative) All her attacks only need to hit...she needs no rule to wound, and that nightbringer doesn't get any saves either...I get luckly he'd already dead right there for one third his points. If I don't get luckly, I do have a decent chance of survival where next turn he's surely screwed...where if I don't survive, 120 points for...360 thats dead next turn. ^^All I'm trying to say is necron players stop making such a big deal out of your nightbringer...I for one (and I've seen several others in this thread.) am not threatend by one. Thank you. xp I agree that the nightbringer is a complete waste of points unless you are trying to play a campaign or something. However, unless they have changed the callidus assassin so that she no longer has a c'tan phase sword, she will get squished. It clearly states in the special rules for the c'tan that any model armed with a c'tan phase sword or knife strikes at one of the gods the weapon will inflict no wounds and will be absorbed into the necrodermis disarming the attacker. And even if they did change that, I do not think that she wounds automaticaly. That ain't what it says in my codex assassins and I don't think they have changed any of the assassins since then. I think the evasor assassin has a higher chance becuase he always wounds on a 4+. Im pretty sure a Night bringer would go down to a Tau VDR
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:31 pm
The Lady Giyan XRedSamuraiX Thats what why I love wraiths, I can't stand the retard who decided that those scrawny little things deserve a 6 strenght, but thier cheap 3+ invunerable save is very fun to know out with a DaemonHunters army...(as you may know, they have lots of invunerable punching weapons.) Any way, like I've said before If I did play necrons and did bring a C'tan...it wouldn't be the Nightbringer...most armies have thier one thier one "nightbringer assasin" plan which they can easily take out 360 points, A.K.A a big chunk of your necron army of the table easily. Me being Daemonhunters would therefore resort too my assasins for that job as 2 of the 4 could beat that thing up in combat to the point of either complete death, or enough to take him out next turn easily. While one more could take him...it just might take a while. My callidus for example... Polymorphine...comes in, can move and assault that turn...so move, shoot my neural shredder which would be a template shot so auto hit, 6+ wound (off chance but no saves,) so lets say I don't wound, She assaults and goes first (5 initiative) All her attacks only need to hit...she needs no rule to wound, and that nightbringer doesn't get any saves either...I get luckly he'd already dead right there for one third his points. If I don't get luckly, I do have a decent chance of survival where next turn he's surely screwed...where if I don't survive, 120 points for...360 thats dead next turn. ^^All I'm trying to say is necron players stop making such a big deal out of your nightbringer...I for one (and I've seen several others in this thread.) am not threatend by one. Thank you. xp I agree that the nightbringer is a complete waste of points unless you are trying to play a campaign or something. However, unless they have changed the callidus assassin so that she no longer has a c'tan phase sword, she will get squished (and even then she'll die, as str4 cannot hurt t8 ). It clearly states in the special rules for the c'tan that any model armed with a c'tan phase sword or knife strikes at one of the gods the weapon will inflict no wounds and will be absorbed into the necrodermis disarming the attacker. And even if they did change that, I do not think that she wounds automaticaly. That ain't what it says in my codex assassins and I don't think they have changed any of the assassins since then. The evasor assassin is the only one with a chance becuase he always wounds on a 4+. Well, yes if they do change it so she doesn't have a phase sword she will not do so well but if they changed it so that the Nightbringer had a 2 strenght and a 2 toughness he wouldn't do so hot either, but I doubt thier going to do that so lets not go there. wink I have never heard of the rule that the phase sword cannot wound the C'tan, I will be willing to take my above statement back if I here further on that but... Anyway, according to my Callidus Assasin's wargear description sheet in my DaemonHunter codex, she does not have to role to wound. C'tan Phase Sword: The C'tan phase sword can only be used in close combat. No saves are allowed against hits from the phase sword, not even invunerable saves. So, according to my codex, my facts were straight...of course they have yet to come out with a Daemonhunters 4th edition where what you said may end up being true. Untill then though... wink I guess nightbringers will have to deal with it. (Any retard who bring one deserves it anyway. xp )
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:59 pm
XRedSamuraiX Well, yes if they do change it so she doesn't have a phase sword she will not do so well but if they changed it so that the Nightbringer had a 2 strenght and a 2 toughness he wouldn't do so hot either, but I doubt thier going to do that so lets not go there. wink I have never heard of the rule that the phase sword cannot wound the C'tan, I will be willing to take my above statement back if I here further on that but... Anyway, according to my Callidus Assasin's wargear description sheet in my DaemonHunter codex, she does not have to role to wound. C'tan Phase Sword: The C'tan phase sword can only be used in close combat. No saves are allowed against hits from the phase sword, not even invunerable saves. So, according to my codex, my facts were straight...of course they have yet to come out with a Daemonhunters 4th edition where what you said may end up being true. Untill then though... wink I guess nightbringers will have to deal with it. (Any retard who bring one deserves it anyway. xp ) The wording of the actual phase sword/knife rules is irrelevant, as the Phase weapons are useless against C'tan. It's not a new update or anything, it's on page 27 of the Necron Codex, under the Necrodermis heading. If your assassin is armed with a phase sword or knife and attacks the C'tan, it does nothing, inflicts no wounds, and the assassin loses the sword. Since I don't think the Calidus is S5, she ends up not being able to do anything against a C'tan. Unless you can equip her with a different sort of weapon, that Callidus assassin is useless for C'tan killing. So it's more the assassin that has to 'deal with it' than the Nightbringer, who will eat her after her ineffectual fists bounce of his hide.
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:19 pm
I have a question...me and my friend were discssing this and I really need to know if any one knows....i read that the c'tan existed at the begining of the universe before the chaos gods...however my friend insists that the chaos gods were before the c'tan...citing that chaos is what started the universe...anyone know anyhitng that can help me out
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:42 pm
Oryn XRedSamuraiX Well, yes if they do change it so she doesn't have a phase sword she will not do so well but if they changed it so that the Nightbringer had a 2 strenght and a 2 toughness he wouldn't do so hot either, but I doubt thier going to do that so lets not go there. wink I have never heard of the rule that the phase sword cannot wound the C'tan, I will be willing to take my above statement back if I here further on that but... Anyway, according to my Callidus Assasin's wargear description sheet in my DaemonHunter codex, she does not have to role to wound. C'tan Phase Sword: The C'tan phase sword can only be used in close combat. No saves are allowed against hits from the phase sword, not even invunerable saves. So, according to my codex, my facts were straight...of course they have yet to come out with a Daemonhunters 4th edition where what you said may end up being true. Untill then though... wink I guess nightbringers will have to deal with it. (Any retard who bring one deserves it anyway. xp ) The wording of the actual phase sword/knife rules is irrelevant, as the Phase weapons are useless against C'tan. It's not a new update or anything, it's on page 27 of the Necron Codex, under the Necrodermis heading. If your assassin is armed with a phase sword or knife and attacks the C'tan, it does nothing, inflicts no wounds, and the assassin loses the sword. Since I don't think the Calidus is S5, she ends up not being able to do anything against a C'tan. Unless you can equip her with a different sort of weapon, that Callidus assassin is useless for C'tan killing. So it's more the assassin that has to 'deal with it' than the Nightbringer, who will eat her after her ineffectual fists bounce of his hide. As I said, I was not previously aware of that as I am not in possesion of a Necron codex. Thank you everyone for telling me that though, that statement still stands if they do change that though. Anyway, I still strongly insist on my point that no model, no even the Nightbringer, is worth 360 points no matter what you say. Especially when the necrons can phase out almost trippling the stupidity in bringing one. Although, if you use it correctly I'm sure it could still make win you games. Any way...still the eversor has a pretty nice shot as well. (why in the world are these assasins so strong anyway???)
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:53 am
XRedSamuraiX As I said, I was not previously aware of that as I am not in possesion of a Necron codex. Thank you everyone for telling me that though, that statement still stands if they do change that though. Anyway, I still strongly insist on my point that no model, no even the Nightbringer, is worth 360 points no matter what you say. Especially when the necrons can phase out almost trippling the stupidity in bringing one. Although, if you use it correctly I'm sure it could still make win you games. Any way...still the eversor has a pretty nice shot as well. (why in the world are these assasins so strong anyway???) Well, I think that the Nightbringer is pretty worthless myself, though some people think it's great against CC oriented armies. I think it just get so much attention because people look at it and go "OMG look how killly shooty choppy this thing is! It's death on a stick!" And never really stop to consider how much fire something that scary draws, how every true CC oriented army isn't going to be affected by Etheric Tempest, and how big a chunk of points that the C'tan will take out of thier Phase Out and the rest of thier army. I actually see alot more utility in the Deciever, for 60 points less.
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:48 am
Oryn XRedSamuraiX As I said, I was not previously aware of that as I am not in possesion of a Necron codex. Thank you everyone for telling me that though, that statement still stands if they do change that though. Anyway, I still strongly insist on my point that no model, no even the Nightbringer, is worth 360 points no matter what you say. Especially when the necrons can phase out almost trippling the stupidity in bringing one. Although, if you use it correctly I'm sure it could still make win you games. Any way...still the eversor has a pretty nice shot as well. (why in the world are these assasins so strong anyway???) Well, I think that the Nightbringer is pretty worthless myself, though some people think it's great against CC oriented armies. I think it just get so much attention because people look at it and go "OMG look how killly shooty choppy this thing is! It's death on a stick!" And never really stop to consider how much fire something that scary draws, how every true CC oriented army isn't going to be affected by Etheric Tempest, and how big a chunk of points that the C'tan will take out of thier Phase Out and the rest of thier army. I actually see alot more utility in the Deciever, for 60 points less. i'll agree that the nightbringer is a giant target sign. i think it is too much points, now if it could regen a wound for every wound it does, then it would be worth taking =P. IMO i'd take a monolith, that are better then land raiders and are cheeper then them too.
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:46 pm
Oryn XRedSamuraiX As I said, I was not previously aware of that as I am not in possesion of a Necron codex. Thank you everyone for telling me that though, that statement still stands if they do change that though. Anyway, I still strongly insist on my point that no model, no even the Nightbringer, is worth 360 points no matter what you say. Especially when the necrons can phase out almost trippling the stupidity in bringing one. Although, if you use it correctly I'm sure it could still make win you games. Any way...still the eversor has a pretty nice shot as well. (why in the world are these assasins so strong anyway???) Well, I think that the Nightbringer is pretty worthless myself, though some people think it's great against CC oriented armies. I think it just get so much attention because people look at it and go "OMG look how killly shooty choppy this thing is! It's death on a stick!" And never really stop to consider how much fire something that scary draws, how every true CC oriented army isn't going to be affected by Etheric Tempest, and how big a chunk of points that the C'tan will take out of thier Phase Out and the rest of thier army. I actually see alot more utility in the Deciever, for 60 points less. I would deffinately go for the deciever also, (if any) not only because of it's lower point cost...but also it's higher initiative. If you want something to rip apart a close-combat army, Orks are the only one's you'll find that you can do it with a 4 initiative, but what if you run into a Close combat orientated SM squad? Or some grey knights? What about some Khorne berserkers (actually not that hard but..)? Now you've lost the advantage of not getting attacked by what you kill on your turn, an advantage that the deciever has. The thing I think I hate most about those necron C'tan though, is the "n00b" necron players who start thier army of with 40 of them and run around "Whoooo! guess who got 12 Nightbringers today! Whooooo! I'm unbeatable!" Those type of players will problably never find out how useless they actually are. wink
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:56 pm
XRedSamuraiX Oryn XRedSamuraiX As I said, I was not previously aware of that as I am not in possesion of a Necron codex. Thank you everyone for telling me that though, that statement still stands if they do change that though. Anyway, I still strongly insist on my point that no model, no even the Nightbringer, is worth 360 points no matter what you say. Especially when the necrons can phase out almost trippling the stupidity in bringing one. Although, if you use it correctly I'm sure it could still make win you games. Any way...still the eversor has a pretty nice shot as well. (why in the world are these assasins so strong anyway???) Well, I think that the Nightbringer is pretty worthless myself, though some people think it's great against CC oriented armies. I think it just get so much attention because people look at it and go "OMG look how killly shooty choppy this thing is! It's death on a stick!" And never really stop to consider how much fire something that scary draws, how every true CC oriented army isn't going to be affected by Etheric Tempest, and how big a chunk of points that the C'tan will take out of thier Phase Out and the rest of thier army. I actually see alot more utility in the Deciever, for 60 points less. I would deffinately go for the deciever also, (if any) not only because of it's lower point cost...but also it's higher initiative. If you want something to rip apart a close-combat army, Orks are the only one's you'll find that you can do it with a 4 initiative, but what if you run into a Close combat orientated SM squad? Or some grey knights? What about some Khorne berserkers (actually not that hard but..)? Now you've lost the advantage of not getting attacked by what you kill on your turn, an advantage that the deciever has. The thing I think I hate most about those necron C'tan though, is the "n00b" necron players who start thier army of with 40 of them and run around "Whoooo! guess who got 12 Nightbringers today! Whooooo! I'm unbeatable!" Those type of players will problably never find out how useless they actually are. wink well the nightbringer is good cause most things can't even touch it. is has a T of 8! so you'll need S of atleast 5 to hurt it. so that means only gray knights, orks/marines with a power klaw/power fist can really do anything to so it's only useful in some situations.
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:46 pm
Heh, yes we are all aware of the statistics. wink
Anyway, although It does take S:5 to do anything...do you know how many weapons that still leaves available for 3+ and 2+ woundings, all targeted at the 360 point model in the middle of the table? It wouldn't even be half as bad if the necrons didn't phaseout, but they do so...
Plus it only has a 4+ invunerable save...thats not very good for such a model. A couple of rounds on the table with vehicles like predator ahnillators and that nightbringer we'll be chipped out of quite a few victory points.
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:45 pm
XRedSamuraiX Heh, yes we are all aware of the statistics. wink Anyway, although It does take S:5 to do anything...do you know how many weapons that still leaves available for 3+ and 2+ woundings, all targeted at the 360 point model in the middle of the table? It wouldn't even be half as bad if the necrons didn't phaseout, but they do so... Plus it only has a 4+ invunerable save...thats not very good for such a model. A couple of rounds on the table with vehicles like predator ahnillators and that nightbringer we'll be chipped out of quite a few victory points. but see, thats what i hate when people do that. they pick something that will kill the stuff easy. normaly a marine play has like one or 2 predators. it's not that hard to dodge on pred and take out one at a time. that one reason i like the NB overthe deciver cause the NB can shoot. NB = Night Bringer if you haven't guessed.
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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:23 pm
SetgTheiDe XRedSamuraiX Heh, yes we are all aware of the statistics. wink Anyway, although It does take S:5 to do anything...do you know how many weapons that still leaves available for 3+ and 2+ woundings, all targeted at the 360 point model in the middle of the table? It wouldn't even be half as bad if the necrons didn't phaseout, but they do so... Plus it only has a 4+ invunerable save...thats not very good for such a model. A couple of rounds on the table with vehicles like predator ahnillators and that nightbringer we'll be chipped out of quite a few victory points. but see, thats what i hate when people do that. they pick something that will kill the stuff easy. normaly a marine play has like one or 2 predators. it's not that hard to dodge on pred and take out one at a time. that one reason i like the NB overthe deciver cause the NB can shoot. NB = Night Bringer if you haven't guessed. (Eh, yes...I'm aware.) No, honestly though you have to think about it...if I'm bringing up the "one" of actually quite several weaknesses of the nightbringer, you know that most likely that is going to be brought into the game...thats why above all, it's a fine example. And your nightbringer isn't gong to have as easy a time as you make it sound killing two predators...I actually was only talking about one. Any way, if you insist I don't bring up Predators, then...how about space marine assualt squads? Give those guys some Thunder hammers and you'll have a nice big hunk of 360 points to drag home very shortly. Heh, in a 2000 point game you just lost about 1/6th of your army right there, when they phase out at 3/4 not so good huh? wink And besides, what do you mean it's not hard to dodge one "pred"? 3 Twin-linked Lascannon shots (thier all twin-linked as I'm aware..right?) Is not going to leave even the "mighty C'tan" unscaved. In fact, thats got the potential for a possible 2 wounds without getting too far fetched, by itself.
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:39 pm
XRedSamuraiX SetgTheiDe XRedSamuraiX Heh, yes we are all aware of the statistics. wink Anyway, although It does take S:5 to do anything...do you know how many weapons that still leaves available for 3+ and 2+ woundings, all targeted at the 360 point model in the middle of the table? It wouldn't even be half as bad if the necrons didn't phaseout, but they do so... Plus it only has a 4+ invunerable save...thats not very good for such a model. A couple of rounds on the table with vehicles like predator ahnillators and that nightbringer we'll be chipped out of quite a few victory points. but see, thats what i hate when people do that. they pick something that will kill the stuff easy. normaly a marine play has like one or 2 predators. it's not that hard to dodge on pred and take out one at a time. that one reason i like the NB overthe deciver cause the NB can shoot. NB = Night Bringer if you haven't guessed. (Eh, yes...I'm aware.) No, honestly though you have to think about it...if I'm bringing up the "one" of actually quite several weaknesses of the nightbringer, you know that most likely that is going to be brought into the game...thats why above all, it's a fine example. And your nightbringer isn't gong to have as easy a time as you make it sound killing two predators...I actually was only talking about one. Any way, if you insist I don't bring up Predators, then...how about space marine assualt squads? Give those guys some Thunder hammers and you'll have a nice big hunk of 360 points to drag home very shortly. Heh, in a 2000 point game you just lost about 1/6th of your army right there, when they phase out at 3/4 not so good huh? wink And besides, what do you mean it's not hard to dodge one "pred"? 3 Twin-linked Lascannon shots (thier all twin-linked as I'm aware..right?) Is not going to leave even the "mighty C'tan" unscaved. In fact, thats got the potential for a possible 2 wounds without getting too far fetched, by itself. heh, you just have to know how to use the NB. if a assult squad assults it, it can just use the etheric temest to push them away and shoot and then charge himself. the sergeant can only do a MAX of 3 wounds a turn then. wile the NG can do 7 max, that includes the shooting. plus you have to also have the other rules too, like they need to pass a leadership ro assult it and if the do kill the NB the rest of the unit will most likely die cause when a C'tan doe it explodes.
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:06 am
XRedSamuraiX Any way, if you insist I don't bring up Predators, then...how about space marine assualt squads? Give those guys some Thunder hammers and you'll have a nice big hunk of 360 points to drag home very shortly. Heh, in a 2000 point game you just lost about 1/6th of your army right there, when they phase out at 3/4 not so good huh? wink SetgTheiDe heh, you just have to know how to use the NB. if a assult squad assults it, it can just use the etheric temest to push them away and shoot and then charge himself. the sergeant can only do a MAX of 3 wounds a turn then. wile the NG can do 7 max, that includes the shooting. plus you have to also have the other rules too, like they need to pass a leadership ro assult it and if the do kill the NB the rest of the unit will most likely die cause when a C'tan doe it explodes. SetgTheiDe one reason i like the NB overthe deciver cause the NB can shoot. NB = Night Bringer if you haven't guessed. You both need to reread the Necron codex before you start arguing about it's units and downsides. First of all, you phase out once you've lost 75% of all Necron models. Not points, models. The Nightbringer is not a Necron, and doesn't contribute to the Phase Out count. Its presence might mean you could take fewer Necrons, but you still have to get him down to that number to phase him out, and if a Necron player is smart, all he has to do is hide a unit in the backfield and he's safe from phase out. Secondly, Etheric Tempest is USELESS against Space Marines. It can only be used on models with a Str of 3 or less. I.E. Guardsmen, Eldar and Tau. Also, If I'm reading your post right, you take the Nightbringer because he can shoot? You're paying 60 points more for what is essentially Lascannon with bolter range. Out of all of the Nightbringer's abilities, I think Gaze of Death is the most useful, but people keep bringing up Etheric Tempest and Lightning Arc. I have no idea why. I honestly think the Deciever's redeploy and illusion abilities are way more useful, than anything the Nightbringer can do, but so many players just ignore him because he isn't a death machine the way the Nightbringer is, and doesn't have a whole lot of numbers on his side.
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:05 pm
Yes well, ironically I took a trip to hobbytown today and actually freshened up on some of the nightbringer rules, and the phase out rules. I was wrong above and anything I said...I guess just ignore it or whatever else you wish to do. Anyway, I will admit I am a bit more weary about the nightbringer just because of that gaze of death and it's little necrodermis rule it's got there which will just be annoying because I'll practically be sending anything that can out combat that thing in as a suicidal troop. Eh, just more reason to shoot it down.
And Setq, with all those things you have against the assault squad up there, you should have by then assumed also that most players know how to use thier assualt squads and would not throw them into a nightbringer like that. It's one thing to bring up models that can kill the nighbringer as suggestions to your point, it's another thing to bring up models that your nightbringer can kill and throw them into situations that would problably never happen in the game.
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