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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:19 pm
I believe that we reborn into a new physical body after death but with the same soul. Sometimes your soul can remember your past lives, such as my grandmother. When she was a little child, she remembered her past life and it was very accurate. It was so accurate that she went to her house where her past life lived and her past life family existed. She told them about her past life, how she had died of a fever and how her other brothers and sisters looked. When she went though, her brothers and sisters were already in their fifties and forties. (This was in Cambodia) When my grandma grew older, she couldn't really remember much of her past life anymore, but this makes me believe.
Also, some of my family members are like my grandmother, too.
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:03 pm
I take a materialist approach to rebirth. All the substance.. molecules, atoms, particles, however you wanna slice it... is as much a physical part of the universe as it is physically a part of you. This includes consciousness. I don't see why brain neurons... which are just cells.. should be significantly different from the cells in your heart, leg, whatever.
There is this concept called emergence. It's the idea that things like cells are simple by themselves, but when combined with MANY others, create something that no one cell alone can accomplish. This principle is echoed in physics in that particles don't make up an atom by themselves, but when combined in just such a way, they fill the universe with trillions and trillions of atoms... and we have all this.
Consciousness arises from a similar pattern. It's not just the number of neurons, but the types of neurons and the way they are arranged that begins to bring about a state of consciousness. Eventually they combined to such a degree that we're not just conscious of existence, but self-aware and able to appreciate existence in an abstract, yet very sophisticated sort of way.
In a very real way, we, and everything around us grows out of this universe. And though it looks like we're separate individuals, objects, etc... we're really the universe. We've always been here, as well. A good number of our atoms have probably been in trilobites, dinosaurs...plants, rocks, other people... even famous people. I believe it takes on average 9 years for every atom in your body to be replaced by others.
I think of that, and i get the sense that I'm borrowing from myself for purpose of having this experience as me. Even if it wasn't intentional, it's still an experience that only I as I can have. I am the composite of billions of years and trillions of events, both great and minor. This would be true even if I was not aware of it. And I know it will be true billions of years from now. And I'll still be here just as I was before I was born. But not as I.
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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:07 am
I used to believe in Reincarnation, When I conbined Catholic with buddhist beliefs. It seemed like a fitting replacement for Judgment Day and Hell,Which I thought would take place much much later. I thought that I was a Christian or Ancient Egyptian Priest in my past life, That's why my Catholic Faith, Buddhism, Hinduism, Ancient Egyptian Beliefs were so amazeing to me. I still read about it from time to time, Though I feel it's impossble for a Christian to believe in Reincarnation ( Some do) I still believe in a type of Karma though, As ye sow, So shall ye reap. Thanks.
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Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:07 am
I am not a Buddhist, but I agree with the ideas and beliefs...but this is the only thing that would stop me from becoming a buddhist, else I would be. I cannot get my head around it. Like most religions they have so many good things and then expect you to believe some ridiculous things which i can't fathom or believe and so I am currently agnostic/ atheist. I am unsure of all.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:07 pm
I'm a Buddhist who holds the traditional views on reincarnation/rebirth as stated by earlier posters: there is no eternal "soul" that corresponds with a set personality but a consciousness-stream is propelled by karma (cause-and-effect as related to perceptions, desires, and environmental factors) from one life to another while lacking a "self" of its own. I currently lean toward the Mind-Only/Yogacara interpretation of the mind as containing "Eight Consciousnesses,"* the 7th and 8th (Afflicting and Storehouse Consciousnesses, respectively) being the mediums by which "karmic seeds" can be passed from one life to another along the chain...this system is the most well-reasoned one I've come across so far...
*FYI: the other six consciousnesses are the five sense faculties and the "mental consciousness," the mind as we normally think of it. Whether the "sixth sense of equilibrium/balance" should be included as a consciousness in the Buddhist sense would make for an interesting discussion...
However, I'm also studying the Middle Way system within Buddhism that generally holds that true reality is beyond, and not necessarily a part of, the mind...I've yet to find Middle Way arguments persuasive enough for me to discard the Yogacarin views and various authorities have combined both philosophies within theirs...*brain hurting*...Either way, the Middle Way advocates do make a variety of good points and are well worth the read, if not the practice.
Basically, I think that there is no movement to speak of regarding the "mind core" of the dead individual, he/she/it's awareness simply seems to "attach itself" to that of a newly-born or conscious sentient being when there is really just a drastic alteration of consciousness/awareness of the deluded consciousness-stream. No physical medium is utilized and in fact there is likely no real physical medium ("external referent" in Buddhist-speak) to speak of ever; just information "being fed" to (though probably actually being self-generated by) the various levels in the hierarchy of awareness...Kind of like "the Matrix" except ALL levels of awareness is dream or illusion; there is no stable "Zion" beyond the veil, just the mysterious but blissful Buddha-Nature.
I think you're splitting hairs in defining "reincarnation" vs. "rebirth." They both almost literally mean the same thing and in a conventional sense they are the same: EITHER a soul or consciousness-stream returning to "the flesh" after the death of a previous "host." Buddhists argue against the existence of a soul whereas every other religion (to my knowledge) argues for some sort of soul, though some advanced Hindu sects teach of "souls" that are "faceless" on account of being mere particles of energy from the Godhead that will ultimately meld with Him or Her (roughly approximating the Buddhist concept of No-Soul when you ignore the theism).
Hindu views in these matters are particularly difficult to study based on the literature. The Bhagavad Gita, through the supposed words of Krishna-Vishnu, teaches of concepts similar to the Buddhist ones of No Soul and No Self, albeit with a simple theistic "have faith in Me and be saved" theme throughout. However, the Ramayana (an amusing but rather crude epic tale) depicts the dead as having literal ghostlike souls that speak, look like the slain individual, and "rise to the heavens!" The Ramayana is also said to contain teachings of Vishnu by way of the words and actions of Lord Rama.
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:19 pm
Mangafairy I am not a Buddhist, but I agree with the ideas and beliefs...but this is the only thing that would stop me from becoming a buddhist, else I would be. I cannot get my head around it. Like most religions they have so many good things and then expect you to believe some ridiculous things which i can't fathom or believe and so I am currently agnostic/ atheist. I am unsure of all. I understand just where you're coming from. However, Buddhism is beautiful in its fundamental reliance on the deep analysis of everyday experience as the primary source of the practices and doctrines, so I was able to get past my doubts regarding reincarnation (and the related issues of karma). Concerning reincarnation, I reason that "if my awareness/consciousness was 'spat out of the Void/Nothing' between conception and birth due to the meeting of necessary conditions, I have reason to believe that 'my awareness' could perform the equally improbable miracle of emerging from or penetrating another new being's mind at or after the time of death. "I" [as deluded consciounsess-stream] expect in the next life a whole lot more of what I [the afflicted individual] have already experienced, from mental development of the fetus to death." However, since I know from experience that people (including myself) can change quite a lot throughout life, and even moment to moment, and that my mental capacities are ephemeral and dependent on the 'meeting of conditions,' I reason that "all mental capacities and personality traits that depend on conditions must disappear when the necessary conditions are lost, especially at death. Since my personality is fluid throughout life and so much is due to genetics and the functioning of the nervous system, I have no reason to hold to a belief in an eternal personalized "soul," the most I can reason for is a mere dumping ground for perceptions and karmic conditions that persists between lives (hence the Storehouse Consciousness of the Yogacara). It follows that ElectricLoki will be, as a whole, 'snuffed out completely' at death due to the loss of underlying conditions and only 'traces' stamped on the most fundamental/subtle consciousness will persist in some form." Further, regarding the persistence of ElectricLoki between lives, I reason, "ElectricLoki can only be reborn as ElectricLoki if the precise conditions that originally brought his development were to recur, which seems highly improbable if not outright impossible. Furthermore, neither I nor anyone else can precisely define WHAT or WHO ElectricLoki was/is/or will be due to his impermanent nature; ElectricLoki is a delusion in both his own mind and those of others! There is a "pearl-string" of so-called ElectricLokis that are spread over time, so pray tell WHICH is to be reborn? It certainly could NOT be the "very last" form of ElectricLoki to be alive, since he was on the brink of death! It holds that ElectricLoki will be reborn as something other than ElectricLoki, and the mind and personality of the new 'host' will not be that of an ElectricLoki." Now, I know I'm an imperfect person capable of holding (and in all likelihood under) delusions; I have certainly believed false things in the past and will in the future. What if the Eight Consciousnesses system is false? That is the crux of my study into the Middle Way school of thought in Buddhism; I keep my mind open and try to remain unattached to the various philosophies I encounter in my readings and direct my thoughts in the direction of the best-supported views. I feel that the Yogacarins explain reincarnation (as well as the persistence of the mental continuum through any type of unconsciousness) the best, while the Middle Way folks do an excellent job of analyzing everyday phenomena (especially perception).
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:26 pm
Reincarnation just feels right to me
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:44 am
I believe in reincarnation. I have for a really long time, actually. It just make's more sense to me than anything else. Or maybe you meet God, then you're reborn, eh?
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:08 pm
I think it's more figurative. I don't really believe that reincarnation is possible. I believe it's meant to be more towards changing personalities, the way one thinks and such.
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:18 pm
Nirguna the Heart Isthene What is the difference between reincarnation and rebirth?
Reincarnation is the belief that you have a soul or some divine essence that is continuously put into new bodies each lifetime. That you have some immortal, indestructible core self that transfers from life to life. Rebirth rejects the idea of the soul and adopts the view that no composite thing is permanent, but its constituent elements are neither created nor destroyed, but are in a constant state of change. A lake becomes a cloud becomes snow becomes a glacier, then melts into a river and flows into a lake again. There is no core essence of that water that is being transfered from the body of the lake into the body of the cloud, there is just a continuous flow of "water". Ok, I've been trying to make sense of all this. Having Buddhism still being pretty new to me, I can't grasp the concept of this. I'm atheist, I want to strive to be a better person all the time, but since I left Christianity it sort of left a bitter impact on me because of the feeling of being lied to. Now that I'm beginning to understand Buddhism, it's becoming more enticing. Due to the fact is relies more on understanding than faith. Love is great. But what's the difference with reincarnation and rebirth? I thought they both meant once you die, you come back as another being/person. Ok so I've come to understand reincarnation is about having a soul, and rebirth.. well I really don't know since I thought it was the same. That's what I want to know. Wouldn't believing in rebirth require faith? It's not scientifically proven, or proven in any other sort of matter. Not as far as I know anyway. Is the process of rebirth dying, then coming back as another person without any remembrance of your past self? What's the point in not wanting to reach nirvana as soon as you could then? It seems if you wait for another life to reach it, you might not even consider Buddha's teachings and live another lifestyle or faith because you have no memory of what you learned before. Maybe I'm way off here. Like I said, I don't completely understand everything about it. It would be great if someone could clear this up for me. Thanks.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:47 pm
While I can offer no new logic or arguments to this subject, I will declare that I believe in reincarnation in the traditional sense: I believe that I have a soul which will pass from this life, move into the In Between, and from thence move on to another life. Will I have memories of this life as an infant in the next? I don't know. But I have had past lives, and will have another life. That I'm sure of.
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