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 Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:31 pm
CheizLord Esiris CheizLord Esiris CheizLord oh... well either way its still retarded.... Could you not use the word retarded? It's really offensive. Honestly its best not to take offense to certain words because you can't possibly ask EVERYONE to stop using them. It's no different than people saying that's so gay. I hated when people said but I realized you can't ask the whole world to stop. so I've learned to not take terminology personally and you shouldn't either. I ask people not to use hate speech where they link something bad to a condition people live with- that means using gay, retarded or other words as slurs and insults. Please don't do it again- it's hurtful to see people treat those I care about with mental disabilities as being less than people like you and I- and that's what you're doing when you use the word that way. I didn't use it to offend anybody in the first place and it was never my intention to begin with. I simply used it in a different context. The meaning of words are always changing that's just a fact of life, yes it may offend people, but only because they chose to take it to heart and let it bother them, otherwise words are meaningless until given meaning. You think I like when people say that's so gay all the time? Not at all, but I'm mature enough to realize that you can't control people no matter how good your intentions are, and I'm able to realize that when they say it it's not because they think that me being gay is stupid, but rather they're using the term in a different context. You do realize that there are gays out there that use the term themselves, and I'm sure there are mentally handicapped people out there that do the same thing without thinking. And there are black people who use the n-word...how does that make the word any less offensive? I can't stop anyone else from doing it but I personally won't use "gay" or "retarded" to refer to something stupid. I don't think it's right. But you have to make your own choices of course.
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:38 pm
CheizLord I didn't use it to offend anybody in the first place and it was never my intention to begin with. Your intention isn't as important to me as much as how you're hurting me is. If it isn't your intention to hurt others- that's great! It means it should be easy to respect other people's polite requests for you to stop. Quote: but only because they chose to take it to heart and let it bother them, otherwise words are meaningless until given meaning. So when people call me a f**, or a freak because I'm not binary or when people use titles that apply to me to degrade others- it's ok? Right? Wrong. It's privilege and bigotry- and I thought this guild was about people being safe and respected- how do you expect to be part of an alliance that supports a minority group like the LGBT community when your bias and privilege makes it so easy for you to dehumanize and degrade others based on their mental status? Quote: You think I like when people say that's so gay all the time? Not at all, but I'm mature enough to realize that you can't control people no matter how good your intentions are, and I'm able to realize that when they say it it's not because they think that me being gay is stupid, but rather they're using the term in a different context. This isn't control- this is a simple and polite request for courtesy. And if you don't like it- change it! Why do I, or my friends who have Aspergers, or my family members with Downs have to roll over and take it? Why do Cis-Straight bigots expect people like me to roll over and take it? If you dislike how bigotry influences our language- work towards changing it instead of spreading it around to other disadvantaged groups! Quote: You do realize that there are gays out there that use the term themselves, and I'm sure there are mentally handicapped people out there that do the same thing without thinking. Just like there are Blacks who use the term ******- please stop trying to justify your actions as an outsider by misappropriating different groups internal struggles. All these points you make? They come straight from " Derailing for Dummies"- a guide to understanding how Privileged People abuse others- so please, since this is a guild that is about supporting people who are underprivileged- don't bring that kind of stuff in here?
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:40 pm
Please stop derailing the thread. Esiris asked politely, which was fine, but since the term wasn't directed at anyone in particular in the guild, I don't feel it's against the rules. If you have an issue, take it somewhere else, or better yet, ignore each other. Any further posts that are off-topic are being deleted and the user will be given a formal warning.
Now, back to the subject at hand...
It seems like the administration might have had good intentions, but their effort would be better spent dealing with anyone who is in the club just to be an a**. I can understand them wanting to be proactive, but this just doesn't seem like the right way to do it. :s
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:31 pm
What? That makes no sense! You shouldn't have to hide-- the other kids should have to put on their big kid underwear and treat you with respect. The school is taking the wrong approach. If you admit your sexuality and someone harasses you for it, it is their fault and it is the school's responsibility to handle the issue. This is like some kind of pre-emptive victim-blaming. =___=
In the short term, staying quiet may protect you from bigotry, but in the long term, it will only enable it.
If I were you, I'd try to get some supportive parents on your side with this issue. In my experience, schools hate actually doing work-- and dealing with concerned/angry parents is work.
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:03 pm
MusicallyObsessedBoi Well, my school has a GSA. Just recently, the school administration decided that we're not allowed to openly admit our sexuality in the club. Apparently, there are people in the club for the "wrong reasons" and they don't want those members to go around telling others who is gay and what not. Seriously? For a lot of us, that's the only place we feel safe enough to be who we are. If you take that away from us, then there's no point in having a GSA! A bunch of us are going to protest. Now, I can understand why they would do that though. But if you are ready to admit it, you should be able to. For a lot of people, that's their first step to coming out. Your thoughts? On a side note, I'm 1 of like 10 guys in the GSA at my school. At my school we do, but we generally lock the door to keep d-bags out.
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:25 pm
laughing pixie What? That makes no sense! You shouldn't have to hide-- the other kids should have to put on their big kid underwear and treat you with respect. The school is taking the wrong approach. If you admit your sexuality and someone harasses you for it, it is their fault and it is the school's responsibility to handle the issue. This is like some kind of pre-emptive victim-blaming. =___=
In the short term, staying quiet may protect you from bigotry, but in the long term, it will only enable it.
If I were you, I'd try to get some supportive parents on your side with this issue. In my experience, schools hate actually doing work-- and dealing with concerned/angry parents is work. I'm not saying it's right or ok- but it could also be a liability issue. If the school does -nothing- until it's too late, they look bad even though it's the homophobic bigots fault. I mean- if I get what the OP is saying correctly- there are people at the school who are such assholes they're signing up to be members of a GSA in order to harass people and hurt them. That's messed up- but as an administrator how do you figure out who the fake is and who the real LGBT and Allies are? And what about people who want to be part of a GSA, but aren't willing to come out of the closet yet? Do you tell the allies to go away and that only openly LGBT people are allowed in the club?
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:39 pm
Esiris laughing pixie What? That makes no sense! You shouldn't have to hide-- the other kids should have to put on their big kid underwear and treat you with respect. The school is taking the wrong approach. If you admit your sexuality and someone harasses you for it, it is their fault and it is the school's responsibility to handle the issue. This is like some kind of pre-emptive victim-blaming. =___=
In the short term, staying quiet may protect you from bigotry, but in the long term, it will only enable it.
If I were you, I'd try to get some supportive parents on your side with this issue. In my experience, schools hate actually doing work-- and dealing with concerned/angry parents is work. I'm not saying it's right or ok- but it could also be a liability issue. If the school does -nothing- until it's too late, they look bad even though it's the homophobic bigots fault. I mean- if I get what the OP is saying correctly- there are people at the school who are such assholes they're signing up to be members of a GSA in order to harass people and hurt them. That's messed up- but as an administrator how do you figure out who the fake is and who the real LGBT and Allies are? And what about people who want to be part of a GSA, but aren't willing to come out of the closet yet? Do you tell the allies to go away and that only openly LGBT people are allowed in the club?
I'm not saying the school is responsible for interrogating everyone in the GSA and figuring out who's the fake or anything. I'm saying that the school needs to take on strong policies against harassment and defamation of LGBT students, and they need to enforce them. Regardless of whether or not there is a GSA, and regardless of the rules, this kind of harassment can and will probably happen. To sit back and say "just don't talk about it" is not only useless, it's irresponsible.
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:20 pm
Its infuriating that they'd be so close-minded but if you want to have the freedom ou want in your club you could suggest having a teacher sponsor that would monitor your activities and they could even be helpful when it comes to organizing events. Do you already have a sponsor?
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:28 pm
laughing pixie But this kind of defeats the entire point of the GSA.
I'm not saying the school is responsible for interrogating everyone in the GSA and figuring out who's the fake or anything. I'm saying that the school needs to take on strong policies against harassment and defamation of LGBT students, and they need to enforce them. Regardless of whether or not there is a GSA, and regardless of the rules, this kind of harassment can and will probably happen. To sit back and say "just don't talk about it" is not only useless, it's irresponsible. I agree- but at the same time, what do you do for the students in the GSA who don't want to be outed to the public?
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:44 pm
Esiris laughing pixie But this kind of defeats the entire point of the GSA.
I'm not saying the school is responsible for interrogating everyone in the GSA and figuring out who's the fake or anything. I'm saying that the school needs to take on strong policies against harassment and defamation of LGBT students, and they need to enforce them. Regardless of whether or not there is a GSA, and regardless of the rules, this kind of harassment can and will probably happen. To sit back and say "just don't talk about it" is not only useless, it's irresponsible. I agree- but at the same time, what do you do for the students in the GSA who don't want to be outed to the public?
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:59 pm
laughing pixie You suggest that they not out themselves, instead of enforcing a ridiculous rule on everyone. I'm saying no one except the person themselves gets to choose to be out, and that if there are people who are joining the GSA in order to harm it's members- some kind of action has to be taken. Sure- the Administration can punish people who out people who don't want to be outed- but that doesn't unring the bell, that person's life will be changed from that point forward. Like for me- the non-profit I work for is great and I know that none of them would mistreat me if I came out to them- but that wouldn't mean they wouldn't accidently out me to someone else that I don't want to be out to. It's not right- but when there is only so much that can be done- people's safety has to be the priority. I would be more angry at an Administration that waved it's hands when they knew there was a problem and let someone get hurt before they take action. I've been in that situation btw- the Admin saying "there's nothing we can do because he has rights too". It's not a good solution- and it's not fair. Maybe the only good way to handle it is to remove "outing" as part of the club functions- if you want to out yourself outside of the club, then no one can stop you after all. Again- this isn't a good solution, but it's worse to stand by and do nothing and let people get hurt- sometimes agencies like schools have to work with what they've got.
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:05 pm
Then why not make things equal? How about NO ONE gets to display their sexuality at all, including straight people. No one is allowed to talk about their boyfriend or girlfriend. No dances, no valentines, no nothin'. No displays of affection whatsoever.
There's just no way to ensure everyone's absolute airtight safety at all times, and you're right, it's not fair. But that's the way it is, and if we can't learn to deal with that, we'll never be able to make any progress. There is no progress without risk.
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:18 pm
laughing pixie Then why not make things equal? How about NO ONE gets to display their sexuality at all, including straight people. No one is allowed to talk about their boyfriend or girlfriend. No dances, no valentines, no nothin'. No displays of affection whatsoever.
There's just no way to ensure everyone's absolute airtight safety at all times, and you're right, it's not fair. But that's the way it is, and if we can't learn to deal with that, we'll never be able to make any progress. There is no progress without risk. I'm all for equality- but I also know that Privilege means that as much as you and I want it- until the people who have Privilege are willing to give some of their unearned privilege up and grant some of those privileges to people like me- throwing up arbitrary ultimatums isn't going to change anything because they don't have to. :rolls: I really dislike it when intelligent discussion jumps the shark- can we avoid that? And you're right- they can't ensure everyone's safety, but they can limit their liability and they can stack the odds against people who are trying to hurt others. And you're part right- risk can bring about progress, but you don't get to say I have to take that risk just because you're willing to do it yourself. Another thing is missing from the discussion- what happens when one of those jerks in the GSA for "the wrong reasons" outs someone and they get beat up while the Administration did nothing- the lawsuit that follows that can put people out of jobs and leave families homeless. I hate the fact that our system isn't a just and equal one- but we are making progress, it's slow and tedious, but we've seen so much in the last 50 years and we're still working on it. Do we really need some kid to be beaten for progress? Will "Progress" set their broken bones or clean up their blood? You and I both want what's right- to not have to hide, but it's not fair to belittle others because they don't want to take that risk- especially when it can cost them their jobs, health or even their lives.
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