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 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:19 pm
Calypsophia RayRai_Lover Eh.. That didn't answer the question
And aren't aliens kinda supernatural beings? I wouldnt think so. something that is "super"natural is outside of nature.. which is what angels and all other mythological beings are (including gods). but aliens (provided they exist and I see no logical reason to suppose ours is the only planet with life in the whole vast universe) are just children of another planet, really no more outside of nature than we are. so yeah, my statement answered the question just fine, I think. What is natural? what is supernatural? It's like normal and abnormal. Natural is the term for something widely known as, and supernatural is what some believe and some don't. Just as fallens are 'unnatural', they are also necessary, I believe. Balence is something the world has. For every life born, there must be death. (Kill the chickens! Just kidding. sweatdrop )But, unfortunantly, most humans fail to remember the balance. (hence global warming) Whoops. I'll get on subject now.... Fallens are angels who have 'fallen' out of "God's" favor (I don't believe in an enforcer of rules who leaves his ill-begotten children behind on earth.) They go through immense pain, becoming a fallen. Angel's Heirachy puts Lucifer's followers at the bottem (A.K.A. demons), Fallens, lower ranking angels, higher ranking angels, prophesizer's (Seers, basically), guardians, and Archangels. Most fallens are above Lucifer's demons because they usually don't mean to disobay the Archangels. (Particually Urial, who loves to cause trouble. It's amazing they haven't made her a fallen. I wonder if she works for Lucifer...?) Fallens usually fall because of a sin they commited. I have seen one in the middle of transformation. It was so beautiful, yet so sad. Pray tell that you will one day understand that fallens are not evil, and they're wings are not always black. It's usually just colors darker than white, like grey, or silver. (Those usually are closer to redemptopn.)
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:51 am
Sleeping_x_Shadows Calypsophia RayRai_Lover Eh.. That didn't answer the question
And aren't aliens kinda supernatural beings? I wouldnt think so. something that is "super"natural is outside of nature.. which is what angels and all other mythological beings are (including gods). but aliens (provided they exist and I see no logical reason to suppose ours is the only planet with life in the whole vast universe) are just children of another planet, really no more outside of nature than we are. so yeah, my statement answered the question just fine, I think. What is natural? what is supernatural? It's like normal and abnormal. Natural is the term for something widely known as, and supernatural is what some believe and some don't. Just as fallens are 'unnatural', they are also necessary, I believe. Balence is something the world has. For every life born, there must be death. (Kill the chickens! Just kidding. sweatdrop )But, unfortunantly, most humans fail to remember the balance. (hence global warming) Whoops. I'll get on subject now.... Fallens are angels who have 'fallen' out of "God's" favor (I don't believe in an enforcer of rules who leaves his ill-begotten children behind on earth.) They go through immense pain, becoming a fallen. Angel's Heirachy puts Lucifer's followers at the bottem (A.K.A. demons), Fallens, lower ranking angels, higher ranking angels, prophesizer's (Seers, basically), guardians, and Archangels. Most fallens are above Lucifer's demons because they usually don't mean to disobay the Archangels. (Particually Urial, who loves to cause trouble. It's amazing they haven't made her a fallen. I wonder if she works for Lucifer...?) Fallens usually fall because of a sin they commited. I have seen one in the middle of transformation. It was so beautiful, yet so sad. Pray tell that you will one day understand that fallens are not evil, and they're wings are not always black. It's usually just colors darker than white, like grey, or silver. (Those usually are closer to redemptopn.) something that's 'natural' happens within the laws of nature. something that is 'supernatural' is something that works outside those laws. any kind of 'god' that supposedly exists without at beginning.. without a birth.. without a cause, and has no end.. is outside the laws of nature, and therefore supernatural. things like magical creatures, angels and demons, talking snakes, etc, are likewise supernatural. I dont believe in anything above or outside of nature. and realistically speaking.. angels are suppposed to have *no* free will of their own. that's what's supposed to make humans so special. but gods will is supposed to be the only will an angel has. if that's the case, how could they sin unless it was gods will for them to do so.. then it wouldnt have been a sin, and thus.. they wouldnt have 'fallen'. there's just no logic to it.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:02 pm
confused Calypsophia I dont believe in angels. Agreed.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:35 pm
Calypsophia I understand your point
But I don't think God would take people to Heaven to strip them of their freewill
I believe angels have about as much freewill as they did when they were alive
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Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:30 am
RayRai_Lover Calypsophia I understand your point
But I don't think God would take people to Heaven to strip them of their freewill
I believe angels have about as much freewill as they did when they were alive angels are not people, and people are not angels. they are 2 separate types of beings. angels are said to be the nephilhim (dunno if I spelled it right) that are mentioned in the bible. they are gods messengers. when we die, good people dont become angels. that was one of lucifers main gripes.. that mortals (us) are higher than.. more special than the angels in the eyes of god.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:50 pm
Actually the whole idea of angels (if there is such a thing) looking like many people envision them is something that has come from the works of artists throughout history and has nothing to do with any actual descriptions found in any particular religious texts. Angels are usually described as being rather frightfull looking (four faces, ect) Whereas demons (or fallen angels) are described as being rather beautiful. Of course this would make sense if you remember the roles of these creatures in religious texts. Demons/fallen angels are here to tempt you into sin and lewd acts and whatnot, so of course they should appear beatiful and desirable, afterall, how many ugly girls do you see mud wrestling in a beer commercial, no one wants to follow something ugly, we are naturally drawn to beauty. Angels are scarey because scarey makes us want to be good so the scarey things won't get us. As to wing color, there's no telling what color wings might be on an angel or demon, or if they even all have wings, or have them at all. Wings of colors are all just the imaginary workings of creative artists. Although the artist's interpretation is up for grabs and it could very well be that the artist is trying to portray thier angel as fallen with the meanings of the colors they use. I think the black winged angel is a fairly modern adition to the world of angel art though.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:59 pm
Calypsophia RayRai_Lover Calypsophia I understand your point
But I don't think God would take people to Heaven to strip them of their freewill
I believe angels have about as much freewill as they did when they were alive angels are not people, and people are not angels. they are 2 separate types of beings. angels are said to be the nephilhim (dunno if I spelled it right) that are mentioned in the bible. they are gods messengers. when we die, good people dont become angels. that was one of lucifers main gripes.. that mortals (us) are higher than.. more special than the angels in the eyes of god. You're right about all of that except a little thing, and I only know it because the school I went to used to freak us out with it. The Nephalim were actually a race of incredibly cruel giants that roamed the earth according to the Bible. Many scholars belive that Goliath was a nephalim. The nephilim supposedly came about when the angels of heaven laid with the daughters of men and in exchange gave men new technologies. Alot of Bible scholars think this means that fallen angels (demons) knocked up a bunch of human girls and unleashed a race of evil giants on the earth for a while untill they all died out. I can't remember exactly where in the Bible it was mentioned but if you have a concordance you can find it. It's a pretty kick a** story when you're 10 and someone's telling you not to have sex because you might be banging a demon and then you'll have a crazy giant devil baby. But all that's only relevant if you're talking about the Bible (king james version). I don't know what other versions of the bible might say about the Nephalim.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:36 pm
unrequietedCat Calypsophia RayRai_Lover Calypsophia I understand your point
But I don't think God would take people to Heaven to strip them of their freewill
I believe angels have about as much freewill as they did when they were alive angels are not people, and people are not angels. they are 2 separate types of beings. angels are said to be the nephilhim (dunno if I spelled it right) that are mentioned in the bible. they are gods messengers. when we die, good people dont become angels. that was one of lucifers main gripes.. that mortals (us) are higher than.. more special than the angels in the eyes of god. You're right about all of that except a little thing, and I only know it because the school I went to used to freak us out with it. The Nephalim were actually a race of incredibly cruel giants that roamed the earth according to the Bible. Many scholars belive that Goliath was a nephalim. The nephilim supposedly came about when the angels of heaven laid with the daughters of men and in exchange gave men new technologies. Alot of Bible scholars think this means that fallen angels (demons) knocked up a bunch of human girls and unleashed a race of evil giants on the earth for a while untill they all died out. I can't remember exactly where in the Bible it was mentioned but if you have a concordance you can find it. It's a pretty kick a** story when you're 10 and someone's telling you not to have sex because you might be banging a demon and then you'll have a crazy giant devil baby. But all that's only relevant if you're talking about the Bible (king james version). I don't know what other versions of the bible might say about the Nephalim. ah ok.. angels/fallen angels/giants.. either way, my case still stands smile
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:01 am
unrequietedCat I can see what you mean
But I still believe in fallen angels as a race of their own
Not as demons
Maybe a race of demon, but not it itself
I suppose I wouldn't believe in angels if I had not had a few encounters with them
And they were beautiful; I don't believe they were demons
In those situations.. I just knew they weren't evil
And the only reason I believe in God is because he's answered more than one prayer
Though I don't worship God..
I can understand people not believeing what I think
But if you had seen what I had... You might change
I know that when I was really little I always wondered whether or not things like angels and such were real
And I was given numorous proof
I've seen quite a few demons two
And yeah, they were beautiful
But the aura around them would make anyone like me know better...
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:44 pm
RayRai_Lover unrequietedCat I can see what you mean
But I still believe in fallen angels as a race of their own
Not as demons
Maybe a race of demon, but not it itself
I suppose I wouldn't believe in angels if I had not had a few encounters with them
And they were beautiful; I don't believe they were demons
In those situations.. I just knew they weren't evil
And the only reason I believe in God is because he's answered more than one prayer
Though I don't worship God..
I can understand people not believeing what I think
But if you had seen what I had... You might change
I know that when I was really little I always wondered whether or not things like angels and such were real
And I was given numorous proof
I've seen quite a few demons two
And yeah, they were beautiful
But the aura around them would make anyone like me know better... how do you know that what you saw is what you think you saw? sometimes we define things according to our beliefs. I once had a pagan friend who worshipped a particular goddess because he believed he saw her in the ocean once while he was at the beach (not sure if he was on a boat, on shore, or in the water.. I dont remember) and he swore she spoke to him telepathically.
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:46 pm
Maybe he did see her
And maybe she did speak to him
Really you have know proof it didn't happen
And he believes he has
But like I said
I never really believed in stuff like that until I saw it
So how would it be based on what I believed if I did not believe
And I suppose that in a way, they spoke mentally with me
Though they did not use words
I knew what was there
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:08 am
RayRai_Lover Maybe he did see her
And maybe she did speak to him
Really you have know proof it didn't happen
And he believes he has
But like I said
I never really believed in stuff like that until I saw it
So how would it be based on what I believed if I did not believe
And I suppose that in a way, they spoke mentally with me
Though they did not use words
I knew what was there if he saw a real 'goddess', wouldnt that refute the idea of the "one true" biblical god? and thus angels right along with it? perhaps you believe it was an angel because you've never heard of anything else that it could be according to your experiences. I couldnt give you any other suggestions because I dont know the nature of your experience and the circumstances surrounding it. maybe it was an alien? smile one should never stop questioning... even what one thinks one already knows.
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:05 pm
I shouldn't think it would
Many people and cultures believe in Gods and Goddesses
We don't know that they haven't seen what they believe in
And I wouldn't think I would think something is an angel without some proof
As you have shown me no proof in aliens, I have no proof it was an angel
My proof for myself is that they more or less told me without words
Though many people claim to see their loved ones
And that the spirits of those passed have helped them
Can they not say they have seen angels?
Like you said, we can't stop questioning
I think I know I have seen angels and demons
You probably think there is something scientific about what I saw
And that it wasn't what I believe
And since I have no proof to show you
I really can't argue
But you can't prove I haven't seen angels just because you don't believe in them
Also, I haven't seen just one, but quite a few.. Or so I believe
I also believe I've seen demons and ghosts and many other odd things
Though I can't think that I can prove a single one of them ever happened
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:46 pm
RayRai_Lover I shouldn't think it would
Many people and cultures believe in Gods and Goddesses
We don't know that they haven't seen what they believe in
And I wouldn't think I would think something is an angel without some proof
As you have shown me no proof in aliens, I have no proof it was an angel
My proof for myself is that they more or less told me without words
Though many people claim to see their loved ones
And that the spirits of those passed have helped them
Can they not say they have seen angels?
Like you said, we can't stop questioning
I think I know I have seen angels and demons
You probably think there is something scientific about what I saw
And that it wasn't what I believe
And since I have no proof to show you
I really can't argue
But you can't prove I haven't seen angels just because you don't believe in them
Also, I haven't seen just one, but quite a few.. Or so I believe
I also believe I've seen demons and ghosts and many other odd things
Though I can't think that I can prove a single one of them ever happened ah, I'm not trying to prove or get you to prove anything. just asking how do you 'know'. on a deeper level and a bit off topic, how do we *really* know anything? everything we experience takes place within our mind. all our senses are sensed thru our brain. how do we know our lives arent just dreams and not reality? (like I said.. a bit off topic) but I would think that IF there was really only 1 true god, then this 'goddess' he saw wasnt really what he thought it was. either that, or there isnt really one true god. that was working on the assumption that since you believe in biblical beings you would believe in the idea of 1 true god. if my assumption was in error, my appologies. as far as aliens are concerned. people who believe in them could back up their beliefs thru biblical passages, and ancient artifacts. it's not proof, it's the same 'circumstantial evidence' believers in god use to back up their beliefs. there are some out there that believe the god of the OT, and thus his angels (and by extention, all other mythical gods) are extraterrestrial beings come to control us. *shrug* not saying that's what *I* believe, but the idea is definately there. just read the book The Gods of Eden by William Bramley.
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Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:50 pm
I'm not sure how I know
I can't really explain it
And something to add to the off topicness that my cousin made me think about: What if we aren't who we think we are? What if our every move is being controlled? And just thinking this is something we can't help but do.
I think thats what you were saying though....
I suppose that would involve a sort of God too.. But it makes me wonder
And since I'm already paranoid, my cousin didn't help
But I admit, I do believe in the main God most believe, but I don't worship him or her
I just think that there is something out there that can.. I don't know, help us... Or something like that
I don't really know how to explain what I mean
Though I am also open to the thought of new Gods and Goddesses
I try to look at it from someone else's point of view
Like why they would believe something
And I might understand and possibly believe some
And sorry if I sound really confusing right now
I didn't get much sleep last night sweatdrop
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