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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:47 pm
Oi i edited my post. Crap, how many times have i done that!?! too many buttons.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:55 pm
MegaTherion777 My Hollow I never said you hated Christians, i know where the roots were founded but the roots as you say were Satanic, yes? Lyrics =/= genres. That's a fact, otherwise Amon Armath would be viking metal because they sing about vikings, yes? 3) I mentioned the bands being attacked not myself. I have witnessed much hate and scrunity for them. They are trying to take something founded on hate and pure ignorance and make it better. Have you ever thought about the Christians who like the sound and style of black metal but hold their religion higher than the lyrics, maybe they wanted to have listen to it but don't. Now they can enjoy the music as well. And Yes, there are Christians who judge and attack other people, and you what what? That's wrong. But we all fall short because we sin, and God knows this. No one is perfect. i know you never said i hated christians. i was just making it clear that i dont. as for the roots...the roots weren't strictly in satanism - some were, but others were from paganism. and we're not talking just lyrics - we're talking album art, musical style, atmosphere, all of it. if christians like the dissonant musical style and want to put christian lyrics on it, fine. but what i am saying is that black metal is more than a genre - it is based in pagan culture. so if a christian wants to borrow the musical style and use christian lyrics, they can, but i don't think that would qualify it as black metal. it is a different culture, a different lifestyle. i'm not saying you have to be evil to be black metal. that's just BS, and i hate it when people say that. but i am saying that true black metal is more than jsut the music - it has the cultural aspect. and christianity is a different culture, necessitating a different genre. Okay, what your saying makes sense and i sort of agree with it. But doesnt this all come back to Lyric=/= genres. Look at Venom, Venom wasn't even Satanic, they didnt beleive it, they just did it for shock Value, yes? So if you really want to look at it, the whole genre is based on a falsehood.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:02 pm
well see...i consider venom blackened thrash - they laid the groundwork, but i think they're closer to thrash, musically and ideologically.
the thing is i think you're working from a faulty conception of BM. yes, some parts of it are satanic. but one of the biggest things about BM is honoring the legacy and heritage of the ancients. many BM-heads are pagan. the cult of asatru (oden worshippers) was very popular in the early norwegian BM scene.
the thing about BM is it urges people to go back to a time before Christianity, to honor the old traditions and beliefs. bands like dark funeral and marduk - bands that are all like "hail satan" - are too deep into the imagery. varg and his church burning, bandmate killing antics were stupid. a central part of BM is to honor the old pagan traditions of a person's homeland.
those japanese bands with their corpse paint and thor's hammers don't really understand this either. the point is not to worship the old norse gods, but to honor the pagan tradition of where YOU are from. i don't wear the thor's hammer. i wear a druid's knot, because i am a celt.
see, a big part of BM is the culture. and the Christians have a different culture. thus, it would be a different genre.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:16 pm
Here's what I have to say:
Black Metal was founded on the ideas of Paganism and Anti-Christianity. Most of the bands conformed to this. It has a dark feel, uses the tritone, and the dissonance. But the CATHOLIC church is the one who called the tritone evil and all that. They also invented indulgences and a lot of other s**t. I am a Christian and have no problem with the tritone or any of that s**t. You guys say that the Christian lyrics are gonna be all light and sunshine-y, but it doesn't need to be like that. I could write Christian lyrics and have them create a dark imagery that would fit the music. It just matters that the music is good.
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Warrior of Metal Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:26 pm
MegaTherion777 well see...i consider venom blackened thrash - they laid the groundwork, but i think they're closer to thrash, musically and ideologically. the thing is i think you're working from a faulty conception of BM. yes, some parts of it are satanic. but one of the biggest things about BM is honoring the legacy and heritage of the ancients. many BM-heads are pagan. the cult of asatru (oden worshippers) was very popular in the early norwegian BM scene. the thing about BM is it urges people to go back to a time before Christianity, to honor the old traditions and beliefs. bands like dark funeral and marduk - bands that are all like "hail satan" - are too deep into the imagery. varg and his church burning, bandmate killing antics were stupid. a central part of BM is to honor the old pagan traditions of a person's homeland. those japanese bands with their corpse paint and thor's hammers don't really understand this either. the point is not to worship the old norse gods, but to honor the pagan tradition of where YOU are from. i don't wear the thor's hammer. i wear a druid's knot, because i am a celt. see, a big part of BM is the culture. and the Christians have a different culture. thus, it would be a different genre. I am Celtic and I am Norwegian, so in your opinon i deserve to wear both, but i dont see anything wrong with appreciating other epople's cultures. Black Metal isn't all about apreciating someone's culture now is it? I do understand what and where it comes from but let's be honest yes? Vemon's release started the Movemnt. Without Vemon's Black Metal there would be no Black Metal. Christianity is not a culture it is the religion.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:40 pm
My Hollow MegaTherion777 well see...i consider venom blackened thrash - they laid the groundwork, but i think they're closer to thrash, musically and ideologically. the thing is i think you're working from a faulty conception of BM. yes, some parts of it are satanic. but one of the biggest things about BM is honoring the legacy and heritage of the ancients. many BM-heads are pagan. the cult of asatru (oden worshippers) was very popular in the early norwegian BM scene. the thing about BM is it urges people to go back to a time before Christianity, to honor the old traditions and beliefs. bands like dark funeral and marduk - bands that are all like "hail satan" - are too deep into the imagery. varg and his church burning, bandmate killing antics were stupid. a central part of BM is to honor the old pagan traditions of a person's homeland. those japanese bands with their corpse paint and thor's hammers don't really understand this either. the point is not to worship the old norse gods, but to honor the pagan tradition of where YOU are from. i don't wear the thor's hammer. i wear a druid's knot, because i am a celt. see, a big part of BM is the culture. and the Christians have a different culture. thus, it would be a different genre. I am Celtic and I am Norwegian, so in your opinon i deserve to wear both, but i dont see anything wrong with appreciating other epople's cultures. Black Metal isn't all about apreciating someone's culture now is it? I do understand what and where it comes from but let's be honest yes? Vemon's release started the Movemnt. Without Vemon's Black Metal there would be no Black Metal. Christianity is not a culture it is the religion. venom influenced the movement. so did celtic frost's morbid tales, hellhammer's apocalyptic raids, and mercyful fate's melissa. venom and mercyful fate were both satanic, venom on the surface, mercyful fate in actualit, but celtic frost and hellhammer weren't satanic at all. it's fine to appreciate other cultures in BM, but it's important to appreciate your own. no, BM isn't about appreciating some other culture, it's about appreciating your own, whatever culture that may be. yeah, sure, you could wear both, except if you aren't honoring the pagan traditions, what's the point? and what do you mean Christianity isn't a culture, but a religion? religion is a PART of what makes up a culture. and @warrior - at the time i was referring to, the catholic church WAS Christianity. martin luther hadn't begun his protests - wasn't even around. i believe they banned the tritone before the schism between the eastern and western churches occurred. and no matter if you are protestant or eastern orthodox or catholic, the church of rome was the foundation for Christianity as a religion. so yeah, it WAS the Christians - all of them - who banned the tritone.
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:51 pm
I think the whole point is very clear now.
No one here believes HUBM bands should die, everybody is able to appreciate music as an art separated from ideologies.
But, if we mix one thing with the other, troubles may raise...
In any case, I reckon all of us can cope with HUBM and like it with no problem, no matter how illogic the fact of having a Christian black metal band is.
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:47 pm
In a way Christian Black Metal isn't Black Metal. Many Christian Black Metal bands want to be refer to as HUBM or White Metal. Since they do not share the same ideologies as some Black Metal bands do. So can we just refer Christian Black Metal as HUBM? I understand that playing Dark music as a Christian may seem contradictory but this is actually a way to reach people and get them listening. Rather than listening to a message of violence and hate they are listening to one of hope and salvation. Again a reason why they consider themselves HUBM instead of Black Metal.
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:18 pm
Please don't flame me for this: I think metal is metal no matter what subgenre, so just label it as metal.
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Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:27 pm
Even after reading everyones posts I dont see what we are debating......If it follows the the style of Black Metal and has Christian lyrics then it is Black Metal with Christian lyrics......whats to debate?
Although, it cant really be called Christian Black Metal because thats not a real subgenre of Black Metal, it can only be used to explain the bands that sing with Christian lyrics in the Black Metal subgenre which is why I'm still confused of what were debating...... neutral
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Digital Malevolence Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:51 am
-Hittokiri_04- In a way Christian Black Metal isn't Black Metal. Many Christian Black Metal bands want to be refer to as HUBM or White Metal. Since they do not share the same ideologies as some Black Metal bands do. So can we just refer Christian Black Metal as HUBM? I understand that playing Dark music as a Christian may seem contradictory but this is actually a way to reach people and get them listening. Rather than listening to a message of violence and hate they are listening to one of hope and salvation. Again a reason why they consider themselves HUBM instead of Black Metal. well like i said, let's call it something other thatn just BM... white metal could work, but that sounds more like something the NSBM dickheads would do. by the way, why is is HUBM? where's the HU from???????
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:01 am
Holy UnBlack Metal
... Don't lool at me, i didnt come up with it razz
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:37 am
Lomedin Holy Un Black Metal ... Don't lool at me, i didnt come up with it razz i guess unblack metal kinda works...
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:02 pm
MegaTherion777 Lomedin Holy Un Black Metal ... Don't lool at me, i didnt come up with it razz i guess unblack metal kinda works... Holy unblack metal is like saying it twice. Holy Black metal or UnBlack Metal.
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:29 pm
My Hollow MegaTherion777 Lomedin Holy Un Black Metal ... Don't lool at me, i didnt come up with it razz i guess unblack metal kinda works... Holy unblack metal is like saying it twice. Holy Black metal or UnBlack Metal. They want to reiterate the holiness of it wink Well, its good it has so many names to choose from, i suppose smile
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