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Gaia's world martial artist tournament that pits the best fighters against one another for the title of Gaia's Best! 

Tags: tenkaichi, budokai, battle, tournament 

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Vahn Fah

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:08 pm


I think we should go back a few posts and determine how far everyone is in terms of positioning, like where they both were when the big basng took place. I had Vahn floating off ground level (ground is nonexistant at this time) then Vahn flew upwards to barrel-roll stab into Viper (who was still free falling at this time), then the ensuing explosion which got swallowed by Viper's epic guts (so we can assume neither body got seperated and no more height was gained), and then his Smash brothers dash jump off my body, followed by my ride the wind technique.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:29 pm


I just spoke of 'math' in the post above. I'll elaborate in a traditional ranting way.

Using these little snippets here as my measurement bases:
themightyjello
[ "The more compact and dense the object, the higher its terminal velocity will be. Typical examples are the following: raindrop, 25 ft/s, human being, 250 ft/s." 76 m/s ]

[ "The terminal velocity of a falling human being with arms and legs outstretched is about 120 miles per hour (192 km per hour) - slower than a lead balloon, but a good deal faster than a feather!" 53 m/s ]

Max speed:
- Viper :: 250 ft/s
- Vahn :: 176 ft/s

Meaning Vahn is moving 70.4% as fast as Viper at max speed, and Viper is moving 143.7% as fast as Vahn at max speed.

This is assuming both fighters have reached terminal velocity at the point of separation.
Acceleration:
- Viper :: The force of gravity. His move would have slowed himself instantaneously but there is no continual force exerted upon him at this point to do so, so he will only accelerate downwards until terminal velocity is reached. His highest rate of acceleration will be immediate, and will eventually drop to 0 as he reaches 250 ft/s.

- Vahn :: Wind resistance. He more or less instantly dropped his max speed below what he was at. He's going to experience a sudden deceleration that will slowly drop to 0 as he reaches 176 ft/s.

Meaning that when we unpause, Viper will begin speeding up quickly, and Vahn will begin slowing down quickly. For Vahn to drop 29.6% of his speed, that would mean that the upwards force of air resistance acting upon him is that same 143.7% of gravity. 46.2 ft/s/s upwards initially.

SNAP.

That means that, by Viper's attestation of about 10 feet of distance between them, assuming Viper is still traveling at T.V. (which we won't) Vahn would cover that, and 36.2 feet extra as Viper whipped straight past him, in the first second.

So let's look at this another way... *crunches numbers*

- 10 feet between them to start.
- Vahn's speed per second (roughly): 250 ft/s at 0, 203.8 ft/s at 1, and my numbers put it at 166.6 ft/s at second 2, which is below the max speed, which means that Vahn will reach 176 ft/s in just under 2 seconds.

- Now to work on Viper's speed. He did an air jump thing to slow himself, we'll assume that took half a second, mmkay? Very brief, somewhat effective, put some distance between them and slowed him up some.

For the first number, we'll start with Vahn's target speed here. Assume Viper drops roughly 30% of his speed from there (starting at T.V.) and slows 74 ft/s to the speed of 176 ft/s. We'll write that in as an estimation of 148 ft/s/s acceleration since it takes half a second. We'll estimate Viper's weight at... oh... 180 lbs. Converted to metric we have: 81.65 kg, and 45.11 m/s. This makes 3683.23 N of force required by that little jump.

According to a calculation website (ironically enough, showing an example of the forces behind a car crash), this number is stated as 48.17 Tons of instantaneous force.

s**t man. s**t man. s**t man. That would ******** you up.

So... by numbers... even without having to calculate the increasing speed by which Viper is falling, in order to buy himself 2 (maybe 3 for overtaking?) seconds he'd need to... ... ... ... I'm not going to calculate how many times that exceeds the capacity of human bones to support.




So again, the question comes down to: "How long before you hit the ground?"


themightyjello


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themightyjello


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:35 pm


...I should so ******** be asian.

You all know it.

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@ Vahn's talk: That just ******** ALL my numbers... because as it stands you're both probably starting from zero right now in terms of speed and falling height.

Which would mean you have a headstart down, and you're both falling at relatively the same acceleration for the first couple of seconds before your wind resistance will really start to make a noticable difference.

For some reason I was thinking you guys were both already falling pretty fast, but if you apparently barrel-rolled UP into him, we can assume that the two of you did some like... stop in midair thing before this all happened and then start from zero.

At which point my numbers are meaningless other than to prove the point of just how serious this wind resistance s**t is.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:54 pm


OKAY. Too much math today. I stopped taking math classes 3 years ago or I might have remembered how to do variable exponential variables or... something. Limits. That's what I was thinking of. That Sigma crap. Man, I should go page through my calc book.

Either way. I must now piss. And eat. And go home because I came to the computer lab JUST so I could get you guys out the most recent updates on my decisions about your impending doom. BECAUSE I CARE, DAMNIT.

And some people don't even log in for 4 days and wonder why their fights get closed? People complain when their fights take months but only two posts happen per week?

ANG'R. HULK SMAAAAAAAAASH! scream

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...what the ******** was that?

...I'm confused now.

...I'm going home.


themightyjello


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The Fierce Deity

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:54 pm


....and Deity thought he was a number-cruncher... >w<
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:43 pm


Applied physics is like candy to me.

Sweet, sweet candy. domokun

I live for them. Numbers, systems, causality, tiered levels of restriction, inverse systems, more numbers, gravity, Newton's laws of motion, thermodynamics... Watching some people RP makes my eyes bleed because it's all "because I say so" and no substance.

Systems do not stifle creativity, they enhance it. Without limitations everyone drifts in the same direction. Stick people in a box and tell them to work outside it, and then interesting s**t happens.


themightyjello


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Psychofish

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:12 pm


I second this.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:38 pm


-tries to decide if he wants to hug jello, or just pat him on the back. either way, he kinda admires the guy's mind in this sorta thing. maybe this post will suffice.-

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themightyjello


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:50 pm


That post more than suffices.

I miss this stuff. The technical stuff. The nuts and bolts of connecting together fantasy and reality so that the fantasy isn't so 'fantastic' that it hardly seems believable at all anymore. Facts, the use of facts, and knowing where and when skewing them is a good idea in order to make things a fantastic take on a realistic thing. That is what separates good fantasy writing from bad; when you can look at it and say "if it weren't for the fact that it isn't real, it COULD be".



A lot of people are afraid to use numbers in their posts because they don't understand them... most of the time when people do, they're so far off it's hillarious because the things they talk about would do things like turn a person's bones to jelly before their intended result could ever really happen. Super speed, for example... I mean, damn. So many things wrong with that. The first being the incredible G forces acting on a person's body that would kill them in painful ways. Others being things like ground friction and inertia. I mean, try to stop a 'blink fast' guy to turn, and you've got enough force hitting him to level a building.

Technical things aren't just about exploiting minor technicalities in order to screw someone over... it's putting enough thought into something so that it makes sense. No PM wars about "well I couldn't understand what you meant by 'avion energy' yadda yadda" when you're just talking about gravity, footing, and (god-forbid) torque.

Mmm... torque.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:01 pm


i try to use numbers. i'd like to think that i'm a player that uses science and fantasy intelligently. my moves are usually based on reality enough that.. that "it could be" thing applies. at least i hope so; i've never asked how belivable i am, only if others can sense a certain style from me.

whoa, that sounded like a tangent.

it kinda breaks me when people do the minderasing and all and i'm sitting there trying to understand it. i've been finding that lately, i've been completely unable to understand the people i fight because of barriers in language/syntax or...

ugh, urge to delete this passage rising. ^this^ is why i don't talk much, because it doesn't make sense.

-hops around the room- LALALA

Uberwulf X

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Vahn Fah

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:56 pm


well I'm still not certain where that leaves us then...

I win by half a second or something?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:10 pm


Tangents are fuuuun.


@ Vahn: ...from your figures, more than that probably.

He will fall notably faster, he will accelerate notably faster, and he only starts with 10 ft of height on you. If we assume both starting velocities are 0... yeah. Big win, even with only a few hundred feet to drop.


themightyjello


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Vahn Fah

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:05 pm


Hm. well do I post now or is it over now?


Unless /Viper disagrees?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:13 pm


It's Viper's post, isn't it?

We should probably wait until he makes a comment in regards to this either way, though, don't you agree? He has a 50% stock in this discussion, I'm just the mediator.



Also, to everyone, I'm starting a rule clarification thing in the ANNOUNCEMENT thread at the top, trying to make sure we note these things down as we clarify on them.


themightyjello


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Vahn Fah

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:16 pm


well Viper posted already IC, and he did post int he request thread that someone step in and do the science magic stuff.

Which you did.. a lot of.

So theres not much to argue with... I honestly didn't understand the number stuff but wind resistance I do understand.
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