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That's what I said when a kid in class told me that today.

But it turns out, it actually is, according to politicians.

Here's a scale--I know I missed a ton of parties in there, but you get the general idea.

|-C--------------L---------------D---R-------------------F-|

C - Communism
L - Libertarianism
D - Democrat
R - Republican
F - Fascism (Which is basically Nazism, correct?)

From the left is the most people-oriented, and the far right is the most government-oriented.

I have to keep reminding myself that communism is NOT government oriented; rather, a true communistic society would be all about the people, even though it was never really carried out that way.

And of course, I'm sure you all know that Fascism is all about the greater good for the country.


Okay, this is what I disagree with. I think Republican and Democrat should change places. Why? Because a conservative is more about the people than a liberal. In liberalism there is more of an equality between everybody in that society, whereas a republican is more cool about having the rich and the poor.

When you create that equality and tax the rich to give to the poor, you might think you're helping people in general, but really, you're not. You're punishing somebody who works hard and makes his life go right just so you can give people who are lazy and don't make their life go right some support.

Reward the bad and punish the good, basically.

Now don't get me wrong, not all poor people are bad. But the good poor people, in general, will eventually get out of that financial state. What I see in places that are extremely liberal are tons of soup kitchens, and tons of degraded poor people who sleep in the streets and eat from the soup kitchens. They don't even try to help themselves out!

In result, this creates an overall degraded status for society.

Who's with me on this? Feel free to express your opinion and feelings, I'm very open to it.

The way I see it is this: Well, first, as a disclaimor, I'm trying to drag this out of a memory that was born many months ago when my teacher wrote the first two of these on the board and I piped up and asked if Libertarians would be individualistic on both subjects. So if I get any thing backwards, I'm just a moron:

Democrats:
market/taxes/property: communalistic - as an example, using taxes for social programs that benifit the poor
rights: individualistic

Republicans:
market/taxes/property: individualistic - free market, our right to property, the right to sell crap
rights: communalistic - certain rights dictated by the government to protect the people and enforce moral behavior

Libertarians
market/taxes/property: individualistic - free market, etc.
rights: individualistic - government lays down laws only to protect the maximum number of rights that can be protected at the same time. When rights of individuals conflict, laws are meant to solve the dilema of who wins.

Even this chart over simplifies things, but hopefully it's better than the line of bull you were handed. xd

Also, about nazism and facism:
http://www.remember.org/guide/Facts.root.nazi.html
That looks right to me?

She doesn't like the scale, what's the problem with that? wink

Ok I'm not too sure that I agree with the line that you drew either. I don't think that you can take the parties and just put them on a strait line. The best chart I think I have ever seen would be the diamond with the Libertarian party on the top; and going clockwise; conservatives on the right, statists on the bottom, liberals on the left and finally centrists in the middle. If you would like to see it go here and take the quiz. Once you take the quiz and submit your answers it will take you to a page which shows the diamond I am referring to. (I'm sure most libertarians have already seen this but for those who haven't I am providing the link): http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

I like this diamond because it really shows the Libertarian party as being sort of in the middle of liberals and conservatives. You can't really do this with a line. I think that the Libertarian party embraces ideologies from both sides. For example privatising or doing away with social security would be considered conservative. However legalising drugs would be considered liberal. On the same token if you look at the bottom of the diamond the Statists also take bits from both sides. Using the same two items above, they would be all for increasing social security and the taxes which go along with it. This would be considered liberal. But these same people want to keep drugs illegal as well. This falls more in line with conservative thinking. (A good example of one of these people would be Hitlery Clinton).

Even though I am a libertarian I think I do lean a little to the right of the top tip of the diamond because I am pro-life. (Please I have no desire to start a debate on this). There is a group of Libertarians called Libertarians for life and I suppose that I would fit in best with that group. Anyway I guess that is my whole point is that it is just too hard to take the parties and draw them out on a strait line.

Trying to put any political group on a line, I wouldn't say is disingenuous, but I would say that it is not very useful. I know it is alot easier to say that someone is on the left of an issue or on the right of an issue. It gives more of a point of reference. But I don't think it is really useful to stick libertarians anywhere on a right and left line. Libertarianism is really more of a philiosophy than Republican or Democrat. Originally the two parties mainly differed on how much power the federal government was to have and over what issues. Now if you can figure out what the difference between what the Democrats and Republicans stand for and what the difference is today, please tell me. The Libertarians in general, believe in little to very little federal government and stronger local government. Our philosophy of governance is more of an individual governance, that we are the most powerful level of governance there is; the individual. That as long, in the course of governing ourselves, we do not impede the ablility of someone else to do the same, then we are within the limits of our power.

I guess the best way to visualise that would be to look at the issue of drug use. Since what a man does in his own home does not affect me in any way or shouldn't, then I have no power to stop a man from smoking whatever or shooting whatever into his veins. On the other hand if he has a job driving a bus, then at this point I do have a vested interest in what he does so it is reasonable for the government at that point to step in and say no you can't do that at work. This puts us at odds with both Republicans and Democrats. On the issue of taxation, I believe that it is the government's role to defend the nation and the vast majority of federal tax reciepts should be used for that purpose which puts us at odds with the Democrats. Again on this subject of taxation, the Republicans seem to think it is a good idea to spend 15 billion dollars on AIDS in Africa. Well, I don't really don't think that is the case, if the Americans want to send 15 billion dollars to Africa for AIDS research then they can, as individuals, stroke a damned check. This would put us at odds with at least some Republicans.

I guess the best way to put is I want the Democrats out of my wallet and the Republicans out of my bedroom. I appologise that this post is not that great the two wee ones here at the house are getting a little agitating? Perhaps? Anyway, can't really think that well right now. I'll do better on the next post.

I view libertarianism as a liberal idealogy. But in European defiation of the word. Not the Fabian socialists in US that call themselves liberals

Democrats: Say they're for all the things above, only they vote with the republicans.

the chart on wikipedia is much more descriptive of the big picture:
Now, if you think of it like a bird, with the wings, you've got the left and right wing, that act, but can't think, then you have the totalitarians all the way at the back, and, as everyone knows, they're all assholes. The only ones with brains are Libertarians. So i'd say this chart is quite accurate.