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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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 Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:22 pm
Welcome, Lance and Russell! I look forward to seeing you around in the guild! Mercury Ten I kind of thought it'd be obvious that I'm trans from my comment about being around cis people. Please don't use the asterisk in trans, at least to describe me. Mercury, plenty of people aren't a fan of being around cisgender people. That doesn't necessarily make them trans*. In addition, you didn't specify whether you were transgender, genderfluid, gender-questioning, etc., so I used the asterisk to indicate a blank space. When dealing with a spectrum of identity, it helps to be specific when you can be.
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Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:35 pm
Lawrence Eugene Mercury, plenty of people aren't a fan of being around cisgender people. That doesn't necessarily make them trans*. In addition, you didn't specify whether you were transgender, genderfluid, gender-questioning, etc., so I used the asterisk to indicate a blank space. When dealing with a spectrum of identity, it helps to be specific when you can be. hey! the asterisk on the end of trans has commonly been used to exclude or alienate people considered 'not trans enough' in the past, and is still used against trans women today. using it in any form- no matter how good your intentions are- can come off as offensive to trans people. mercury absolutely has the right to request that you refrain from using the asterisk. if you want to read more, this is a great article that explains everything really well: http://www.thepulpzine.com/the-trans-asterisk-and-why-we-need-to-stop-using-it/
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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:56 am
stics Lawrence Eugene Mercury, plenty of people aren't a fan of being around cisgender people. That doesn't necessarily make them trans*. In addition, you didn't specify whether you were transgender, genderfluid, gender-questioning, etc., so I used the asterisk to indicate a blank space. When dealing with a spectrum of identity, it helps to be specific when you can be. hey! the asterisk on the end of trans has commonly been used to exclude or alienate people considered 'not trans enough' in the past, and is still used against trans women today. using it in any form- no matter how good your intentions are- can come off as offensive to trans people. mercury absolutely has the right to request that you refrain from using the asterisk. if you want to read more, this is a great article that explains everything really well: http://www.thepulpzine.com/the-trans-asterisk-and-why-we-need-to-stop-using-it/
To be honest, I don't see how using an asterisk at the end of the Latin prefix "trans", especially when there is no claim being made on the subject within the sentence, has anything to do with trans-women. Then again, that is a matter of opinion and I understand why it would be annoying to be addressed that way as an individual on the grounds that it's illogical, if nothing else. I don't address individuals as "trans*", as a rule; I refer to the collective unit of trans-people and those along the spectrum as "trans*". It really wouldn't make sense to use the asterisk otherwise. I've explained before that it is a Boolean phrasing technique, nothing more. If you're unaware of this phrasing technique, I'd be happy to explain it to you. It's fundamentally a way to enter search criteria online without having to know all the words of what you're looking for. I hardly if ever use it IRL. Furthermore, I never challenged Mercury's right to ask that I not call her "trans*". In fact, I never once used the term in reference to her at all. I only used it to refer to a group, category or hypothetical person, and that is the only way I have ever used it. If you can find a moment where, in any of my posts, I have ever called a person "trans*" after learning how they identify, I would take it as a kindness if you could quote or screen-cap it to me; if I've made a legitimate mistake, I would like to know about it. The guild had a discussion on this very topic in the Roundabout section not too long ago. In case you weren't able to participate, you can still read what we talked about here. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the topic may be reopened eventually. Keep an eye out for it!
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:32 pm
Lawrence Eugene stics Lawrence Eugene Mercury, plenty of people aren't a fan of being around cisgender people. That doesn't necessarily make them trans*. In addition, you didn't specify whether you were transgender, genderfluid, gender-questioning, etc., so I used the asterisk to indicate a blank space. When dealing with a spectrum of identity, it helps to be specific when you can be. hey! the asterisk on the end of trans has commonly been used to exclude or alienate people considered 'not trans enough' in the past, and is still used against trans women today. using it in any form- no matter how good your intentions are- can come off as offensive to trans people. mercury absolutely has the right to request that you refrain from using the asterisk. if you want to read more, this is a great article that explains everything really well: http://www.thepulpzine.com/the-trans-asterisk-and-why-we-need-to-stop-using-it/
To be honest, I don't see how using an asterisk at the end of the Latin prefix "trans", especially when there is no claim being made on the subject within the sentence, has anything to do with trans-women. Then again, that is a matter of opinion and I understand why it would be annoying to be addressed that way as an individual on the grounds that it's illogical, if nothing else. I don't address individuals as "trans*", as a rule; I refer to the collective unit of trans-people and those along the spectrum as "trans*". It really wouldn't make sense to use the asterisk otherwise. I've explained before that it is a Boolean phrasing technique, nothing more. If you're unaware of this phrasing technique, I'd be happy to explain it to you. It's fundamentally a way to enter search criteria online without having to know all the words of what you're looking for. I hardly if ever use it IRL. Furthermore, I never challenged Mercury's right to ask that I not call her "trans*". In fact, I never once used the term in reference to her at all. I only used it to refer to a group, category or hypothetical person, and that is the only way I have ever used it. If you can find a moment where, in any of my posts, I have ever called a person "trans*" after learning how they identify, I would take it as a kindness if you could quote or screen-cap it to me; if I've made a legitimate mistake, I would like to know about it. The guild had a discussion on this very topic in the Roundabout section not too long ago. In case you weren't able to participate, you can still read what we talked about here. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the topic may be reopened eventually. Keep an eye out for it! the article that i linked to explains that using the asterisk on the end of trans has commonly been used "by dfab trans people who felt like trans women were talking about their struggles too much and that there needed to be more room in the community for everyone else", and that "saying that the asterisk is somehow “more inclusive” is like saying that some non-cisgender people aren’t “trans enough” to be called just trans". it's a harmful term, and has been used to exclude trans women, non-binary people, pre-op people and those who don't experience dysphoria.
i understand that you're not using it in this way and that you don't want to exclude anybody, but using the asterisk has a lot of negative connotation. when i saw you using it i felt upset about it, because people have used it against me before to make me feel like i don't belong in the transgender community; it's invalidating. i know that you don't use it that way, but only after hearing you explain why you do use it. if anybody uses trans with an asterisk i automatically assume they may try to exclude me from their space. i'm sorry if this point isn't very clear! it's hard to explain haha. i just think it's unnecessary for you to use it when it can be interpreted negatively, and using the word without the asterisk works in exactly the same way as you've described.
sorry, i know you didn't challenge mercury on anything! i was just making a statement- but i can see why it looks like i was calling you out on something, so sorry about that :^)
SUPER SPEEDY EDIT: http://theroguefeminist.tumblr.com/post/64810447498/stop-using-the-term-trans-with-a here's another article that explains it better than i ever could haha
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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:01 pm
stics the article that i linked to explains that using the asterisk on the end of trans has commonly been used "by dfab trans people who felt like trans women were talking about their struggles too much and that there needed to be more room in the community for everyone else", and that "saying that the asterisk is somehow “more inclusive” is like saying that some non-cisgender people aren’t “trans enough” to be called just trans". it's a harmful term, and has been used to exclude trans women, non-binary people, pre-op people and those who don't experience dysphoria.
i understand that you're not using it in this way and that you don't want to exclude anybody, but using the asterisk has a lot of negative connotation. when i saw you using it i felt upset about it, because people have used it against me before to make me feel like i don't belong in the transgender community; it's invalidating. i know that you don't use it that way, but only after hearing you explain why you do use it. if anybody uses trans with an asterisk i automatically assume they may try to exclude me from their space. i'm sorry if this point isn't very clear! it's hard to explain haha. i just think it's unnecessary for you to use it when it can be interpreted negatively, and using the word without the asterisk works in exactly the same way as you've described.
sorry, i know you didn't challenge mercury on anything! i was just making a statement- but i can see why it looks like i was calling you out on something, so sorry about that :^)
Not a problem, Stics. Thanks for explaining. I have heard whispers in the works from time to time about this kind of thing -- assholes using the word incorrectly to make others feel like crap -- which does, indeed, lend the term to shade itself as an insult. It's not the only word in the English language that has that problem, I'm sad to say. I would probably have discontinued the use of the asterisk altogether if it weren't for the occasional need to use Boolean phrasing, particularly when addressing a crowd or speaking in the hypothetical sense; my brain is far too logic-driven (and OCD-ridden) to look at the bare prefix "trans" and not want to throw an asterisk or something on there to make it more grammatically correct. However, because it bothers you that much, I will agree to avoid using the term outside my dorm thread whenever I can. It'll be tricky, but I think I can manage with the help of good ol' Roget. wink Also, I just got wind that all Roundabout topics will be open permanently by the end of this week, so if you still want to hop in there, you'll definitely be getting your chance! EDIT: I just saw your super speedy edit, LOL. I'll read the link in a bit; coffee takes forever to brew when you don't have a decent machine, and I can't think very critically without it.
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:11 pm
Lawrence Eugene Also, I just got wind that all Roundabout topics will be open permanently by the end of this week, so if you still want to hop in there, you'll definitely be getting your chance!= cool stuff! i'll absolutely hop on in there when it opens up again- i've seen a lot of people using the asterisk, and there's no reason for anybody to use it! thanks for that :~)
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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:44 pm
stics Lawrence Eugene Also, I just got wind that all Roundabout topics will be open permanently by the end of this week, so if you still want to hop in there, you'll definitely be getting your chance!= cool stuff! i'll absolutely hop on in there when it opens up again- i've seen a lot of people using the asterisk, and there's no reason for anybody to use it! thanks for that :~)
Well, yes, there is a reason for the asterisk -- it's proper grammar -- but there isn't a reason to turn something amoral into an insult. A history of human indecency is the thing at fault, not the term in question. The whole issue, to me, is basically a very watered-down version of the reason people get outraged when they see swastikas. For many cultures in India and thereabouts, it's still the beneficial symbol it's always been. It's only in recent history, when the use of it became associated with antisemitism, that the swastika took on a horrible meaning. That doesn't mean all the Hindu temples with swastikas in their design should be dismantled and redone; it means that the negative use of the swastika should be put to an end. I look forward to seeing you in the roundabouts! I like that you include sources; it's a very honest way of talking about things.
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:25 pm
Lawrence Eugene Well, yes, there is a reason for the asterisk -- it's proper grammar -- but there isn't a reason to turn something amoral into an insult. A history of human indecency is the thing at fault, not the term in question. The whole issue, to me, is basically a very watered-down version of the reason people get outraged when they see swastikas. For many cultures in India and thereabouts, it's still the beneficial symbol it's always been. It's only in recent history, when the use of it became associated with antisemitism, that the swastika took on a horrible meaning. That doesn't mean all the Hindu temples with swastikas in their design should be dismantled and redone; it means that the negative use of the swastika should be put to an end. I look forward to seeing you in the roundabouts! I like that you include sources; it's a very honest way of talking about things. look- use whatever terminology you want to use. just know that spelling trans w/the asterisk has transmisogynisic roots, and that you are making people uncomfortable when you use it. language changes and evolves all the time, and now this term is being used to hurt people. it's a slur. there's an easy solution to this problem, and that's to stop using the asterisk entirely. if you don't want to because it isn't 'grammatically correct' and doesn't sit well with you, by all means, go for it- but i can't consider this a safe place for me so long as you do. it's even in the title of the guild, ha ha.
so thanks, but no thanks. it's cool that you were chill and civil during this debate though, so ty at least for that.
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Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:13 pm
Please excuse me but if we could put an end to this discussion in this particular thread it would be appreciated. Stics, as I myself am the originator and creator of "The Trans* Umbrella" Hangout and Guild. It was my personal decision to have the asterisk, and I am the sole person to take responsibility for this. The only reason the I have it there is because when it originally came about it was a way to be all inclusive of the Trans/* Community as a whole. Anyone that has used it as a slur or attempts to here isn't welcome in my group. I however will not be using it regards to an individual. I never have, nor will I. It's strictly for the community as a whole. If you'd like to further this discussion please, message me privately. As a note to all members: Any further discussion on the "Asterisk Debate" in the introduction thread will be deleted as soon as it's seen by a crew member. Please be respectful of the thread that you're in and post only things relevant to the topic. Thank you.
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:32 am
Name: Noni
Nicknames: Noni
Birthday: 14 Jan
Pronouns: they/them/theirs or her/hers/herself
Gender: genderfluid
PMs: sure! heart
About Me:
Hi I'm Noni, im a shy nerd 3nodding
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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:43 am
Welcome to the guild, Noni! I think we're all nerds here, to some extent, haha. I look forward to seeing you in the threads!
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Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:25 pm
Name: i suppose i go by the name kai, but only because i have yet to get a better name. but i do somewhat like the name
Nicknames: kk, haru, john, sollux
Birthday: feb 25th
Pronouns: male pronouns please :3
Gender: ok so this is kind of a hard question, im wanting to become male(born female) but i guess i appear more so like a genderfluid person. so i tend to just label myself as genderfluid
PMs: yea sure! i welcome it actually
About Me: 18 yr old, japanese/mexican, senior in high school and i draw shitty pictures and watch sport anime and read homestuck.. basically thats it haha
oh and im into the whole grunge aesthetic thing yea...
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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:46 am
Welcome! It doesn't really matter what you look like, Kai; it's all about who you are in the mind. I don't think there's really any kind of "look" for any point on the gender spectrum, to be honest, haha. Be sure to poke around the guild, post some threads and interrupt some conversations! Be rude as hell and have fun! ^^
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:55 am
I can't believe I didn't find this earlier... Anyway, here goes nothing.
Name and nicknames: (At the moment they're pretty much the same thing... I'm exploring) Call me whatever. Nomzie, Neo, Noah or whatever else you feel like - I'm not bothered.
Birthday: 9th August.
Pronouns: To be honest, in my world I'm often just reffered to as 'you' or my name, because that's how most people hold conversations. 'She' isn't entirely right, but 'he' doesn't feel right either, and any versions of 'hen' doesn't really fit either. So... Go with 'she'/'her' I guess? Again, I'm not really bothered.
Gender: Not sure. I would say agender, genderfluid and maybe even leaning FtM.
PMs: Any PM's welcome. 3nodding
About Me: As you've probably already gathered, my situation is quite uncertain. A lot of things have collapsed, and I'm trying to figure it out. (Sorry if that's too dramatic) I love chatting, but that doesn't mean I'm any good at it. I hardly ever know what to say. I'm the shut-in, isolated and friendless type of person... I'm into anime/manga, music (alternative metal, post-grunge and punk mainly, but I enjoy all sorts of music.) I will be starting my undergraduate degree in engineering come autumn.
Nice to meet you all ~ This guild seems like a really good place to explore and meet other people who're in similar situations to me.
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