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Hawk_McKrakken

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:29 pm


F. Fritzi
Okay, I'm slightly confused and very scared. XD
The cases issue - are they ALWAYS used? Do you have to analyze your sentence to say it correctly? eek I can handle that in Arabic, but they don't do it all the time, just when they're trying to be formal. How can you talk like that all the time? :O


Don't worry, it eventually becomes easy to say. All you need to know is WHEN to use the cases and what the articles change to for each case. I also thought it difficult at first, but now it's gotten easier. You just need to know the phrases that go with 'em. Examples:

Nominative case: Used with sentences revolving around the direct object (what's performing the action).
Noun & gender: der Mann
"Der Mann ist dort." (The man is there.)
*The nominative case's definite articles are generally what'll be listed next to the noun when you learn it.

Accusative case: Used with sentences in regards to the indirect object (what's being done to the object).
Noun & gender: der Lehrer
"Wir sehen den Lehrer." (We see the teacher.)

Dative case: Still looking into this one, but it has to do with the whole notion of "to whom" and "for whom"... I think.
Noun & gender: das Mädchen
"Er gibt es dem Mädchen." (He gives it to the girl.)

Genitive case: Used with possession.
Noun & gender: die Frau
"Das ist die Handtasche der Frau." (That is the woman's purse.)
*I think this is also used with prepositions but again, this one I'm still looking into.

This chart should help:

_______Masc._______Fem.________Neut._______Plural
Nom.___der__________die___________das_________die
Acc.___den__________die___________das_________die
Dat.___dem__________der__________dem_________den
Gen.___des__________der__________des__________der
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:11 am


Four forms then. I don't know where I got five from. I can only think of three in English, of what's left anyway. Are there more?

He
Him
His

She
Her
Hers

It
That
Its

Dative still gets me as well, I think it has something to do with continuity. Like, if you're still in the process or something? I dunno.

WellzY


Fatal Hilarity

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:01 am


Oh no, I do understand the principle, and I know I could memorize those and do that right, but it seemed odd to me how people would actually talk like that all the time.
*Sigh* Oh, Latin influences.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:13 am


I don't think it's a Latin influence, it's fairly general in all Indo-European languages, to varying degrees.

WellzY


Hawk_McKrakken

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:32 pm


Especially the Germanic languages in particular. Old English had 5 cases: the four mentioned above and the "instrumental" case. They all probably came from the unwritten Proto-Germanic language.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:41 pm


I love Wiki. heart

It told me that German, along with many other Romance languages, is called something along the lines of a pro-drop language, in that they drop words that are instead implied with the sentance context. I suppose that's harder to do with English, because verbs don't always denote person and possition.

But more than that, it's a language that likes to imply more with less, as far as comparisons with English goes.

WellzY


chocfudge
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 9:13 am


Hawk_McKrakken
F. Fritzi
Okay, I'm slightly confused and very scared. XD
The cases issue - are they ALWAYS used? Do you have to analyze your sentence to say it correctly? eek I can handle that in Arabic, but they don't do it all the time, just when they're trying to be formal. How can you talk like that all the time? :O


Don't worry, it eventually becomes easy to say. All you need to know is WHEN to use the cases and what the articles change to for each case. I also thought it difficult at first, but now it's gotten easier. You just need to know the phrases that go with 'em. Examples:

Nominative case: Used with sentences revolving around the direct object (what's performing the action).
Noun & gender: der Mann
"Der Mann ist dort." (The man is there.)
*The nominative case's definite articles are generally what'll be listed next to the noun when you learn it.

Accusative case: Used with sentences in regards to the indirect object (what's being done to the object).
Noun & gender: der Lehrer
"Wir sehen den Lehrer." (We see the teacher.)

Dative case: Still looking into this one, but it has to do with the whole notion of "to whom" and "for whom"... I think.
Noun & gender: das Mädchen
"Er gibt es dem Mädchen." (He gives it to the girl.)

Genitive case: Used with possession.
Noun & gender: die Frau
"Das ist die Handtasche der Frau." (That is the woman's purse.)
*I think this is also used with prepositions but again, this one I'm still looking into.

This chart should help:

_______Masc._______Fem.________Neut._______Plural
Nom.___der__________die___________das_________die
Acc.___den__________die___________das_________die
Dat.___dem__________der__________dem_________den
Gen.___des__________der__________des__________der

Nur um es vollständig zu machen, es gibt Fragen mit denen man rausfinden kann um welchen Fall es sich handelt. Ich benutze einfach mal Hawk's Beispiele um die Fragen und deren Sinn zu veranschaulichen.

Nominativ: Wer oder was? (Who?)

"Der Mann ist dort." (The man is there.)
Wer ist dort? -Der Mann. ----> Nominativ

Genitiv: Wessen? (Whose)

"Das ist die Handtasche der Frau." (That is the woman's purse.)
Wessen Handtasche ist das? -(Die Handtasche) der Frau. ----> Genitiv

Dativ: Wem oder was? (Whom?)

"Er gibt es dem Mädchen." (He gives it to the girl.)
Wem oder was gibt er es? -Dem Mädchen. ----> Dativ

Akkusativ: Wen oder was? (Who or whom? [not exactely about the whom, can anybody explain the difference between 'who' and 'whom' to me? My dictionary said that 'wen' would be translated either 'who' or 'whom'])

"Wir sehen den Lehrer." (We see the teacher.)
Wen oder was sehen wir? -Den Lehrer. ----> Akkusativ

Ich habe es in dieser Reihenfolge geschrieben, weil man üblicherweise den Nominativ als den 1. Fall bezeichnet, den Genitiv als den 2. Fall, den Dativ als den 3. Fall und den Akkusativ als den 4. Fall.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:49 pm


chocfudge

Akkusativ: Wen oder was? (Who or whom? [not exactely about the whom, can anybody explain the difference between 'who' and 'whom' to me? My dictionary said that 'wen' would be translated either 'who' or 'whom'])


Whom is the declension of who, just as me is the declension of I. Who performs the action, whom is having the action happen to them.

Who thows the ball?
(I did.)
And it was thrown to whom?
(To me.)

Declensions:

I-------->me
you----->you
he------>him
she----->her
we------>us
they---->them
who----->whom

Wer tut es wem?
(Who does it to whom?)

...Yeah, I didn't understand it well myself up until about a year ago.

Hawk_McKrakken


WellzY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:42 am


Declension would have to be the hardest part of having English as a native language, when learning other European languages anyway.

The best way to get around it is practice, practice practice.

Declension also changes with prepositions, which is what we're doing now.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:15 pm


Ah, you must be talking about the dative personal pronouns (such as mir, dir, ihn...). Those are simple enough... well, with some practice.

Hawk_McKrakken


WellzY

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:03 am


No? Prepositions, such as 'an, auf, hinter, ueber, unter, nebem, zwischen, vor, in". They can be used in either the Dative or Accusative case.

Maybe I wasn't talking about declension.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:40 am


I guess not...

Hawk_McKrakken


ichbineinengel

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:38 pm


Hallo! Ich moechte mich vorstellen. Ich heisse Engel, und ich bin sechzehn Jahre alt. Ich wohne in den U.S.A. und ich will eine Deutschlehrerin sein. ^^
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:29 pm


F. Fritzi
Oh no, I do understand the principle, and I know I could memorize those and do that right, but it seemed odd to me how people would actually talk like that all the time.
*Sigh* Oh, Latin influences.
Russian has that too... sweatdrop

Proudly_Jewish
Captain


Hawk_McKrakken

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:18 pm


ichbineinengel
Hallo! Ich moechte mich vorstellen. Ich heisse Engel, und ich bin sechzehn Jahre alt. Ich wohne in den U.S.A. und ich will eine Deutschlehrerin sein. ^^


Hallo noch einmal, Engel! Wie geht es Ihnen? Oder darf ich Sie als 'du‘ anreden? In welchem Fall: wie geht es dir?
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