{Open} Twilight *Yay or Nay*

Yay or Nay?

Yay!	38.0%	[ 19 ]
Nay!	42.0%	[ 21 ]
THIS IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION	2.0%	[ 1 ]
Die-hard fan right here!	18.0%	[ 9 ]
Total Votes:			[ 50 ]

[Lukan Wolf]

Nobody Famous

Lukan Wolf

Nobody Famous

Lukan Wolf

Yeah, I knew all that. (As I say, when in doubt, google it out.)

So true. It's like trying to wring water from stone. If there isn't much of a character to begin with, then how can an actor possible play as said character? Not at all really. (Agreed. It just goes to show ho crappy a writer Meyer is when a fan does a better job of painting Edward in a better light as a side character in a couple of sentences, than she could do with a whole series where he's the one of the main characters. And yeah, I did feel bad for Leah. The poor girl.)

It is, it so is. Yeah, Charlie needs lots of love. Especially since Bella is his daughter. (But then I would have to reread Twilight gonk I don't want to go through that again. Then again, I could just rewatch the movies since they are a lot more bearable than the books.) True, he did nothing wrong. He did his best and tried to be there for her. It's not is fault that she threw it all back in his face. and agreed. Charlie has a crappy daughter, and Leah has a crappy family, they could give each other the support and love they need.

Well at someone was calling Jacob on his BS. Too bad Sam wouldn't do the same. Though he is as much of a jerk as Jacob is. It seems that our of the whole pack, Leah is the only one with common sense and worry for her pack members. I mean honestly, the pack should have listened to her. And I just don't get why they dislike her, there is no reason for them to be so mean to her. Though yeah, I also agree it those traits that make a good author. Whether it be sic-fi or fantasy, an author needs to do some research so that their story, plot and characters are believable. The only time it's okay for an author to BS something is when there isn't much information on it. (Like for example, I'm writing a story about the boogieman, but there isn't much information to go on. So I'm building onto that information, but making sure that it makes sense.) And really, Meyer didn't edit at all? Well that explains a few lot of things.

Really? Find the sorting system on Fanfiction a little hard to understand. I'm so used to the old sorting system that I can't help but find the new one to be annoying and a little confusing. And the tags do make it more confusing. Yeah, most OC centric fanfics are annoying and Mary-Sue-ish. Though the fanfics I find really annoying are the ones that take a character (usually a main one) and turn them into a Mary-Sue. That's just rude and disrespectful. Yes, it is awesome! I read it all and want to read it again. Also, the author sounds awesome. I think that I'll check out their other stories.

Oh yay! A fell fan of Hellboy and RotG! Though if you're unsure about the Buffy/Twilight crossover fanfic, then I won't give it to you. As I say, when doubt, don't. As for the other two fanfics...Heartstone and Things that Were. Both aren't finished yet, they're still a work in progress. (Which is way better than them being abandoned.) No, you're not the only one to think that. I think that Pitch and Jack would some awesome bros too. Though I also like them as a pairing as all.

Sorry it took so long to reply. sweatdrop Things happened. Like life. And the spamming of PMs. stressed

But I digress, agreed on the characters. The hard thing to keep in mind with the series is that past the flowery prose, NOTHING IS HAPPENING. And the movie shows that. Seriously, when you don't have to listen to Bella's monologuing, you get to realize that all they're doing is staring at each other. (Yeah, author seems to focus a lot on Leah in fics--and torment her to some extent while still giving her the overall better treatment, but I liked this one for the personality it gave everyone, especially considering how much the author hates Twilight and both Edward and Bella in particular. So it's not enough that a fan did a better job with Edward in less time, they also pulled off a likable personality in a character they didn't even LIKE. What did YOU do, Meyer? Doesn't help that the author mentioned possible plots for a sequel.)

Very true. (DO IT! It'll be worth it for the Charlie/Leah father/daughter tag-team awesomeness.) It's more sad than anything. Meyer wasn't showing Charlie not trying, she was showing his attempts at not being good enough because he was just human. And not pretty or sparkly or immortal--because those are clearly the important traits in a person. rolleyes Agreed. That's why I like the headcanon where they help each other...and in a father/daughter way, not a romantic way. Or an imprint way. I still don't get WHY people see making Leah imprint fixes everything...okay, I do, because that seems to be the quick fix in series. DAMMIT, MEYER!

Both Sam and Jacob were HORRIBLE alphas. I could go into reasons even aside from the mistreatment of Leah or hyperfocus on imprints. Apparently per Jacob, having a girl in the "all boys club" made things "uncomfortable". And with her there, that meant they couldn't just go around naked as they pleased everywhere anymore. Both are stupid reasons. Their anger towards her came off less as Leah being the bitter harpy and more of being the odd girl out and them making her the scapegoat. When they're talking about attacking each other or wanting certain people to die, that doesn't tell me that these are good guys or that I'm NOT supposed to feel sympathetic for the victim. Authors can make up some things--hell Rowling did an amazing job building the world of Harry Potter by making up tons of stuff from spells to candy to music to even their own variation of fairy tales! But she still did the research for the latin words, history, and utilized stereotypes of witches and wizards (magic, potions, broomsticks, cloaks and robes) to make them believable. THAT is the mark of a good author.

It took me a while to get used to it as well, but I appreciated the exception function at least. Same. Honestly, it's hard to tell which I hate more--OC Mary Sues or Canon Mary Sues. I cannot BEGIN to count the number of Inuyasha stories I find that turn Kagome into an all powerful Sue and have Inuyasha betray her for whatever reason as an excuse for her to run off with some other guy--usually Sesshomaru or some hot guy from another world. When they make canon characters into Sues, they're not just annoying overpowered, they're not even the original character anymore! Author did a freaky one called "For You I Will". A very messed up take on imprinting where the wolf imprinted on a psychopath. Fun times.

Always nice to find others who share my fandoms. I like both those fics, still reading through Heartstone though. And poor Kozmotis. Guy can't get a break. (True dat.) The pairing is fine as long as it's well written, though most tend to try to make the two too OOC--not unusual for any pairing though. But if you want one of the two being IC and buddies, try Home For Fear.

Don't worry about it. Better late than never, right?

Exactly, nothing is happening. The whole book series is nothing but Bella spamming it with an over done monologue. Mayer spent way to much time going in depth with disruptions and endless prattle that wasn't needed. And don't even get started on the movies. The pauses where Bella and Edward were just staring at each other were too long. (They don't like Twilight and hate Edward, but still did a better job with him? Meyer really needs to take notes. She could really learn from them. THough which other did you mean? Meyer or the awesome one?)

So very true. (Alright, fine. I'll do it. Besides, Parent/child tag teams tend to always be awesome. And I could always work a little Supernatural and Buffy into it.) Really? Well that was just plain mean of Meyer. Just because someone is human doesn't mean that they're not good enough. Take characters like Xander (from Buffy), Fred (from Angel), Sam and Dean (from Supernatural), Whistler (from Blade) and Jason (from True Blood) for example. They all may be human, but they all are incredible in their own right. Just because someone a character is human (and powerless) doesn't mean that they're a wast of space.

Anyway, back on topic. Oh man, the imprinting, Meyer just had to ruin that too didn't she? Now what I mean from that is, in some werewolf folklore, or just werecreature folklore in general, imprinting is about finding your soulmate, not someone who will help create a better and stronger generation. (That is if I remember right.) A werewolf imprints on someone via use of their scent. In other words, a werewolf would become attracted to some by their scent because their scent queues them into their other half, that the other is a perfect match for them mentally and emotionally. That werewolf cares for the imprintee and is never violent (unlike Twiwolves), while the imprintee feels drawn to the werewolf. (And of course the imprintee is of legal age if not older). But no, Meyer just had to go and pervert it.

Agreed, they were the most horrible alphas I've ever seen. So could I. Hell, I could write a book or two on how messed up all the characters of Twilight are. Anyway, those are some really stupid reasons to hate on Leah. I mean, you'd think they'd get used to nakedness. I mean, in Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, nakedness (from both sexes) is the norm in the werewolf culture in that web comic. (It's a good read, so I highly recommend it (even if it starts off a little random).) Well Rowling did do an awesome job (as did the author of The Hobbit and Lord of The Ring). So sometimes author can make things up, as long as they do a good job of it and build up on things/do some research like Rowling did with the latin words and whatnot. And yes, that is a mark of a good author.

Well I'm still getting used to the new sorting system on FanfFitcion. Oh well, I'll get used to eventually. Inyasha Mary-Sue fics? Don't even get me started. I've lost track of all the Inuyasha cross over fics that are nothing but Kagome falling in love with one of the main (male) characters of the other series, mostly because of the reason you just listed (because Inuyasha broke her heart and bla, bla, bla). Though as for the Mary-Sue OC vs. Mary-Sue cannon character, I hate the Mary-Sue cannon character more because it ruins the character. And that fanfic, I'm making a mental note to never read it. It sound awful.

That it is 3nodding Well I'm glad that you like the fics. Yeah, poor Kozmotis, which why I like Pitch so much. (I tend to be a real sucker for villains with a tragic past.) At least he finally get's a friend. And the same, I like Jack and Pitch as a pairing if done right. Though I also like fics where they switch the two's powers. It's interesting to see their roles reversed. Oh Home for Fear! Love that fanfic! But has been some time since I've read it, so I'm probably behind and need to catch up.

True. If only it would stop happening. DX

Agreed. And there were a number of words she didn't even use correctly! Plus there's a reason we call it "thesaurus rape". I mean, how many different ways did Bella describe Edward's eyes? And how many of them were actually NECESSARY? (Yep, hates Twilight with a passion. Both mentioned possibilities of sequels, but in this case, I was referring to the fanfic author and the sequel people would actually WANT to see.)

(Yay! Even better with crossover! Personally, I've long considered creating a badass hunter team of characters I don't feel got enough credit in their series. Leah would totally be one of them.) Meyer has referred to herself as "anti-human". And not even in the good environmentalist empathetic way, but the "humans suck on the basis of being icky and killable" way. Yes, yes, and HELLS yes! And even of the two brothers, Dean was awesome for being the "non-special one" up until season 5 *is shot*. I loved all those characters, and I've yet to meet anyone who didn't like Xander. Hell, the human characters can be the most interesting ones and tend to not get enough focus or credit. It's easy for the main characters to be awesome when they've got powers, but it's the "normal" folks who make it through all that sh*t and survive with their "normalness" intact that are truly amazing.

Right, topic. I actually used to like the "love at first sight" bit until Twilight. I can get love at first sight, but it shouldn't be that obsessive or all encompassing. Hell, it's like the people who imprint aren't themselves anymore. It's creepy. It's hard to be sure, as there were so many theories thrown about and not a single one of them without SOME fault (You want to say it's genetics, then why imprint on children and half-human hybrids who SHOULD be infertile? You want to say it's soul mates, then how can they attack said "soul mates" in a fit of anger?) Scent sort of makes sense. At least more sense than the whole "eye contact and BAM!" bit. Hell, Hotel Transylvania did it better!

I could probably write several novels, even on the characters I liked, because as much as I liked Charlie and Leah and feel their situations were unfair, that's not to say either of them handled anything appropriately. I KNOW! Of ALL the reasons for bashing her, it's because having a girl in the "all boys' club" made them "uncomfortable". Plus her depression over losing her boyfriend/fiancee and cousin, the death of her dad, the noted loss of her femininity, and oh yeah, THEY CAN'T BE NAKED! Seriously, they can go join a nudist colony. Wait, wait, wait. Did you....did you just link Dominic Deegan? ....That tears it, I'm friending you. This is too many similar interests to ignore. And if anyone could tell Meyer about proper characterization and development, it's Mookie. I've gone to...what, two? Three of his panels on it? THAT guy knows his characters. Good authors take their work seriously, and put in actual effort in the writing and development of their stories. It shows they actually CARE enough to want to share it in a way other people can also appreciate. And the suspension of disbelief can only go so far. We can't knock authors for using magic or sci fi to explain away some things, but there still needs to be some reasoning behind them. We would all be going "wtf?" if Rowling or Tolkien suddenly pulled a 180 halfway through the story and had all the magical happenings actually be really really advanced sci fi tech or all in the main character's heads. Or if all the characters suddenly turned into snowmen. Sure, it'd be a twist, but it wouldn't make sense in the context of the story. And that's Meyer. Oh, she uses SCIENCE to explain HER vampires to show how different they are.....then ignores the blatant fact that SCIENCE DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!

It does take some time to get used to. Took me a bit to even find it and figure out how it worked, but it has helped some. Sadly, yes. Well, Kagome Sues anyways. I wouldn't mind it so much if they wouldn't keep brutalizing the characters of...well...EVERYONE ELSE to make it work. Agreed. At least with OCs, I don't know the character except enough to know that I won't care. With canon, I have expectations as to how the character will be, and it's so jarring to see how they can be twisted. It's like the author created a new character and just slapped a canon person's name and description on them. Actually, it was very well written and well plotted out. It's just that the plot involved the imprinted upon girl being a sadistic monster and the wolf doing whatever she wants...including murdering people. It's horrifying, but a VERY good point on how downright terrifying imprinting can be.

Same. I also like villains with depth, though it does depend on how they're done and what they've done. There's only so much a tragic backstory can explain/excuse before the guy is just beyond redemption. I like seeing them get along, though the pairings can be pretty good, too. I'm not picky, as long as it's done well. I haven't found that many where there's a power switch. A few where their origins are switched, and only a couple among those that were true to their personalities. I do have to admit I like the role reversal as well. That you do. It's updating slowly, but still a good read. Then there's the Bye Bye Birdy series where Pitch found Jack early on and took him in. It's adorable.

Well at least you don't forget to reply. Though let me apologizing for taking so long to reply sweatdrop Someone was nice enough to give a link to a site where I could watch all the Supernatural series from all the seasons for free (and I just got started on the fourth season), along with an anime version of it. I've also be a bit tied up with doing some RPing and and woking on some commissions. Anyway...

Agreed. All that wordiness and "thesaurus rape" makes it hard for me to believe that Meyer is an english major. College level english is hard. English college professors go over everything with a very, very fine-toothed comb. They beat the laws of spelling and grammar so hard into you, that it's only way you can write, because not using perfect spelling and grammar feels very wrong. So how Meyer was able to write such a train wreck alludes me. I have a feeling that she was a C student, no wait, make that a D(+) student. (Oh okay~ Besides, no one wants to see any of Meyer's sequels emotion_donotwant I'm just glad that she's so childish and unprofessional, because we don't have to deal with Midnight Sun. Though I can wait to see the awesome author's sequel 3nodding )

(Oh, that sounds like a good idea~ I could include Xander and Fred, and maybe John Meyers from HellBoy? And maybe I could pair up Leah with Xander. They could be a good match.) What really? The hell man! Then again, I shouldn't be all that surprised. The big speech Bella did about how vampires are way better than humans in the Wedding Crashers fanfic, was taken from Meyer word for word. Meyer seems to have a couple dozen screws loose, if she sin't missing a couple already. I mean, I can understand the apple of being a vampire, but that doesn't mean I want to be one. To be so hard to kill, to be able to live so long, can become taxing on the mind after some time. Having to watch all your loved one grow old and die while you stay forever young? It isn't worth it. At least not to me. I don't know what everyone else thinks. Anyway, back on topic. Agreed~ (Though I have no idea what you mean with Dean, but I'll know eventually.) Though I have seen a person or two who didn't like Xander, and for the stupidest of reasons too.

Well I've always been a little iffy with the whole 'love at first sight' thing. In my mind, love is something that get's built between to people over time. Something so precious and wonderful doesn't happen over night. (Though that could just be me.) Only rarely do I like/find 'love at first sight' to be real. Like with what you mentioned, Hotel Transylvania. Yes, there was love at first sight, but both people acted like anyone who was in love. They wanted to spend time together, doing anything together, even if it was mundane, and wanting to get to know each other better. Hell even the guy (who's name I can't remember at the moment sweatdrop ) only left and pretended to not like the girl because he took what Dracula said to heart, and thought that he wasn't good enough for her, and that she deserved better, even if he got hurt in the process. That's what people in love do, they put aside their own feelings and put the happiness of the person they love ahead of their own. I solidly believe true love is about wanting the person you love to be happy, to be with someone that makes them happy, even if that person isn't you.

I blame them not handling things well on the fact that Meyer is a crappy author. But look at this way, at least they’re only side characters. If they were a part of the main cast, Meyer might would have ruined them even more. Though man, those some really stupid reason for hating Leah. No pack, no real pack, would ever do that kind of s**t. But I can kind of understand the nakedness issue. Most of the pack is made up of teenage boys, so there is a good chance for some awkward boners to happen when around a (pretty) naked girl. Yet would have learned to get over it. Nimmel (from Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire) went to that werewolf school, all the nakedness was off putting for him, but he got used it. I can’t see why the Twiwolves couldn’t do the same. And yes, yes I did link Dominic Deegan. (Along with expect your friend request~) That comic is made of win and awesome~ Anyway, Meyer could learn a thing or two a lot of things from Mookie. That is if she was ever willing to listen to anyone. That woman won’t listen to any kind of criticism or helpful hints. She just sticks her fingers in her ears and goes, “no, I’m right and your wrong because I say so.” Kind of like a certain someone I know.

Exactly. Anyone who cares about their craft, be it a writer, artist, singer or etc., makes sure to do a good job. They do their research, they make sure they know what they’re doing and always put effort into it. Whenever I write, be it my own original work or a fanfic, I do research and make sure I know what I’m doing, most importantly, put all my effort into it. And not just when it comes to writing either. The same goes for poems, drawings, paintings, working in PhotoShop and what have you; because I actually take my craft seriously (and really like doing it). Not mention, making sure that it all is understandable and people get it. If you’re gonna do one hell of a twist (near the end, like most tend to do), don’t make it farfetched. Something Meyer can’t seem to grasp. And the whole ‘uses science’ thing is laughable. I may not be well taught in science and have (very) limited knowledge about it, but even I know that science doesn’t work that way. Exactly what the ******** was Meyer on to think that science works like that, when it clearly doesn’t? The only series I know of that used science to explain vampires and did a good, or at least decent, job of it, is Blade.

Well, I’m starting to get the hang of it. Though I still find a bit clunky. Anyway, I can understand the bashing of some characters. There are just characters that have enough annoyance to them that it wouldn’t be all that hard to bash them. (Most of the characters of Twilight come to mind, especially Bella.) Yeah, with an OC, I don’t care how they act because I don’t know anything about them. But when it comes to cannon, I expect them to act a certain way. The only time I’m okay with a cannon character being OOC is a side character, a character we don’t know much about. There’s not really much there to begin with, so you can build upon it. I’ve seen some people do a really awesome job with side characters. What, really? Maybe it might be worth a read? Anyway, that does seem horrifying. It looks like it shows just how horrible imprinting is.

Also the same. I like villains with some depth, but only if they don’t over use whatever tragedies they have to excuse what they did/do. Like they go so far that they can’t be redeemed. Once again, the same. Jack and Pitch would make for some epic bros. Well I’ve found one or two that did a good job with the power swap (which sometimes ties in with an origins swap). Really? If it updates slowly, then I might not be too far behind. Bye Bye Birdy series? That sounds interesting. May I have a link please?

[nitznitz]

Nay because, excepting Carlisle and Rosalie, all the characters have no depth whatsoever, the whole world revolves around self-absorbed, passive, emotionless Mary Su--I mean Isabella Swan and the story bends itself back and forward to put her in the center of everything good even though she really doesn't deserve it.