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Dapper Dabbler

I usually have some nebulous theme floating around in my head prior to writing, but it's not until after the book is done that I know what the book is "really about."

What are some of your experiences with theme? Do you use theme (and how)? Do you prefer to let themes develop naturally or use them to unify your story?

E.g., one theme in Harry Potter is "love conquers all."

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I don't focus on it at all unless parts of the story don't seem like they fit with each other.

Magical Investigator

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I've had a number of stories where I still don't quite know the ending, but I know what I generally want it to be about. Like a story about masks, obviously, involves an obsession with outer appearances, and the facade we put on for other people, or a story about vampires actually both involves the character's own difficulty with being understood, and the overall trend for people who only know the pop culture of vampires, and if they had to deal with the threat of an actual vampire, could not handle it, because they don't ******** understand what they're dealing with. So there's that sort of symbolism there... I guess...

But some stories I do have at least an idea of the ending, so I know where I'm going with it, and the theme sort of comes out of it. Like a story about Death, though obviously that should have come easily too - it's about perceptions of death, and coming to terms with the idea, and one's own mortality. Uh... the story about an alchemist was actually more about coming out of one's shell and making friends. More personal therapy and messages to myself, more than to others, haha.

Dapper Dabbler

Xiam
I've had a number of stories where I still don't quite know the ending, but I know what I generally want it to be about. Like a story about masks, obviously, involves an obsession with outer appearances, and the facade we put on for other people, or a story about vampires actually both involves the character's own difficulty with being understood, and the overall trend for people who only know the pop culture of vampires, and if they had to deal with the threat of an actual vampire, could not handle it, because they don't ******** understand what they're dealing with. So there's that sort of symbolism there... I guess...

But some stories I do have at least an idea of the ending, so I know where I'm going with it, and the theme sort of comes out of it. Like a story about Death, though obviously that should have come easily too - it's about perceptions of death, and coming to terms with the idea, and one's own mortality. Uh... the story about an alchemist was actually more about coming out of one's shell and making friends. More personal therapy and messages to myself, more than to others, haha.

Most of the themes I deal with are more personal, and often accidental. I might not go out and say "my book is about ___" but I think a very careful reader might guess. I think it's probably best when a theme isn't a message to others, though.

I like your take on the vampire myth; that sort of theme makes for fascinating reading. As opposed to the current YA trend (which is about what, anyway? snagging a vampire lover so you can be young and beautiful forever?)

Celestial Spirit

I usually seem to have a message that I'm aiming for, but I try to keep it subtle for the most part. I mean, I've actually written dialogue pertaining to these just to get it out of my head, and then left it to rot in a fragments file. No one wants to be slapped in the face with a moral.

Dapper Dabbler

Sianserais
No one wants to be slapped in the face with a moral.

Generally, a theme is not a moral. But most writers have certain ideas they're attracted to, or that they believe deeply in, that come through in their work.

Celestial Spirit

Slatefire
Sianserais
No one wants to be slapped in the face with a moral.

Generally, a theme is not a moral. But most writers have certain ideas they're attracted to, that come through in their work.
True, but I was referring to why I removed specific things from my own writing (it would have sounded too much like I was taking that route). Sorry.

Dapper Dabbler

Sianserais
Slatefire
Sianserais
No one wants to be slapped in the face with a moral.

Generally, a theme is not a moral. But most writers have certain ideas they're attracted to, that come through in their work.
True, but I was referring to why I removed specific things from my own writing (it would have sounded too much like I was taking that route). Sorry.

Oh, yes--the trick being to show it rather than tell it. I have experienced that, too.
Themes tend to just be there once I develop the story. I don't notice them until I sit down and think about it. xD

But honestly, a theme is sort of what gives a story purpose, isn't it? I can't imagine what a story would be like without any themes at all. Probably boring and disjointed.

Dapper Dabbler

I_Write_Ivre
I don't focus on it at all unless parts of the story don't seem like they fit with each other.

It does tend to come after the characters and plot are in order. But are you saying you never want to write a story because the story elements (plot, characters, world) all come together to mean something to you?

Dapper Dabbler

Kairi Nightingale
Themes tend to just be there once I develop the story. I don't notice them until I sit down and think about it. xD

But honestly, a theme is sort of what gives a story purpose, isn't it? I can't imagine what a story would be like without any themes at all. Probably boring and disjointed.

Agreed. I tend to notice them just after the story outline and characters are in place. But then, once I know what it is, it helps to know when I am going off track with an event. (Like if the story has an overall theme, it can be an indicator when I should alter or cut a subplot that has a message that competes too much or is too contradictory with the main theme). More than that... it helps because it's the reason why I'm probably interested in a certain story in the first place.

Fanatical Cultist

I cannot for the life of me remember where I found it, nor am I presently able to locate it, but I recall reading an article in which the author said Theme is a three-part concept. These may not be exactly right, but should be more or less along the correct lines:

1) The theme you think you're putting into your story.
2) The theme you think you're actually getting out of your story.
3) The theme your readers get out of your story.

Personally I agree with that. I wrote a short piece a while back with an intended theme of familial bonds. When I went to revise, yeah, there were elements there, but the story had shifted onto the idea of the selfishness of humans. My IJ read it and claimed she like the environmental theme, which blew my mind considering it never once crossed my mind that such a theme existed in that piece.

(I went back and looked. I can see how she got it.)

In general I'll just start writing until I see what I think is a viable theme forming. I don't really elaborate on it, though, at least until the first draft is complete, because I'll usually make note of three or four ideas I like. I'll choose the one that works best with the happenings in the story itself to really work on bringing out. Sometimes it'll change halfway through. Sometimes I won't like it after all and start over with a different theme, letting the first kind of fade into the background or utilize it as a subplot.

So I suppose I do a bit of both in regards to your last question. I let them develop on their own and then tweak them for my own purposes like the evil puppetmaster I love to be.

Dapper Dabbler

General Phade
I cannot for the life of me remember where I found it, nor am I presently able to locate it, but I recall reading an article in which the author said Theme is a three-part concept. These may not be exactly right, but should be more or less along the correct lines:

1) The theme you think you're putting into your story.
2) The theme you think you're actually getting out of your story.
3) The theme your readers get out of your story.


So true! And part of why theme is so intangible, and why it's an exercise in frustration to try to force your book to follow a contrived theme.

General Phade
Personally I agree with that. I wrote a short piece a while back with an intended theme of familial bonds. When I went to revise, yeah, there were elements there, but the story had shifted onto the idea of the selfishness of humans. My IJ read it and claimed she like the environmental theme, which blew my mind considering it never once crossed my mind that such a theme existed in that piece.

(I went back and looked. I can see how she got it.)

In general I'll just start writing until I see what I think is a viable theme forming. I don't really elaborate on it, though, at least until the first draft is complete, because I'll usually make note of three or four ideas I like. I'll choose the one that works best with the happenings in the story itself to really work on bringing out. Sometimes it'll change halfway through. Sometimes I won't like it after all and start over with a different theme, letting the first kind of fade into the background or utilize it as a subplot.

So I suppose I do a bit of both in regards to your last question. I let them develop on their own and then tweak them for my own purposes like the evil puppetmaster I love to be.

It's interesting how themes can work their way in. I often find there's a bit of "man vs. nature" elements to my stories that I didn't intend at all. It can go to show that the work is a product of the writer's beliefs/emotions, even if he doesn't exactly intend to reveal those things about him- or herself (or if he's writing in a genre that is more associated with entertainment than with meaning).

Fanatical Cultist

Slatefire
It's interesting how themes can work their way in. I often find there's a bit of "man vs. nature" elements to my stories that I didn't intend at all. It can go to show that the work is a product of the writer's beliefs/emotions, even if he doesn't exactly intend to reveal those things about him- or herself (or if he's writing in a genre that is more associated with entertainment than with meaning).



EDIT: Sorry, got distracted by a shiny object.

I like to think writers are jaded to the point where we feel like we need to smash our own thoughts and ideas into the faces of others. Difference being we do it in a more creative way that often gets misinterpreted and then forces us to rethink what we originally thought was right thus forcing us to grow as intellectuals. But that's just me. The more likely reality is we're really all just ax-crazy and write as a socially acceptable means of murdering, making out with, and fornicating with people. And as expressing our severely deranged natures.

By the way, I found that article.

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That's one of things I focus on in revision. "What is this story about?"

In one of my writing classes, that was how our teacher had us open all criticism sessions. "What do you think this story was about?" It's often enlightening, but trying to write a story that is about something tends not to work out, at least not for me.

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