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Right-o. The other day I was reading a blog by Kristin Nelson, a literary agent of a variety of genres, and it was entitled 'Millions of Readers Are Not Wrong'. (You can see the blog here: http://pubrants.blogspot.com/ just scroll down and you'll see it.)

This got me to thinking. Everyone in the writers' forum complains about books like Twilight, Eragon, Harry Potter, ect., and most of us use this as an ego booster, or at least an excuse why others won't/don't like our book as much as the popular books.

But Kristin says that writers should try to learn from popular books, and try to understand what makes readers like them, rather than criticizing them to death (although she agrees that that's good fun too!).

Basically, I want to discuss what makes people love these books, and how we can apply this to our writing. What grabs the reader's attention, what do they find so fascinating about these stories.

Here's what I don't want:

I don't want any remarks along the lines of "I don't care what makes books popular, I'm not writing for that reason," or, "They're popular because humanity is stupid, and is attracted to the stupid." If you do not agree that Millions of Readers Are Not Wrong than don't bother posting, because this is not a thread about whether or not millions of readers are wrong or not. It's a discussion about what elements of a story catch the reader's attention.

I don't want anyone to insult any of the books said above, or any books at all, for that matter. This discussion is not a flame war. This discussion is going to focus on the positive aspects of both society and popular books.


EDITS!:
First I would like to say that the books I selected were chosen because most of the people here have heard of them, and they were examples. The discussion does not have to be about any of them. Please feel free to talk about other writers.

Second, I'm getting a lot of the same answers:
Hype
And Marketing.

This is annoying me because I already knew about these two things, and I wanted to have a deeper discussion than they go. People seem to be forgetting that no matter how much hype and marketing goes into a project, there are still going to be people who do not like the book. And there are going to be people who didn't hear any hype who pick up the book and love the hell out of it. So, the question is not what makes a lot of people start to read a book. The question is what makes a lot of people LOVE the book. Why do people like these books?

I repeat: Why do people like these books?

This is supposed to be a discussion based on writing, and not marketing or hype. I want to talk about what aspects of the writing make people like the books. The writing!

Other examples of popular books! (Thanks to Adversative):

The Time-Traveler's Wife, The Lovely Bones; Neil Gaiman's American Gods, Anansi Boys, and The Graveyard Book. The Da Vinci Code. Kim Harrison's later Rachel Morgan books. Good Omens, Terry Pratchett books, Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy?

So, discuss!

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Ok i hope this is aloud, but i think alot of people like the Twilight series pacificaly girls because its liveing out a fantasy sort of. I mean they place themselves in the shoes of whatever the MCs name is and such.

The reason alot of people love harrypotter is simply because they grew up with it. And eragon because it is alomost a combo of some great fantasy books. Thats might also be a reason why some peopl dont like eragon.

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Yoshi-Miso
Ok i hope this is aloud, but i think alot of people like the Twilight series pacificaly girls because its liveing out a fantasy sort of. I mean they place themselves in the shoes of whatever the MCs name is and such.

The reason alot of people love harrypotter is simply because they grew up with it. And eragon because it is alomost a combo of some great fantasy books. Thats might also be a reason why some peopl dont like eragon.


That's allowed enough, I suppose. But you have to remember that it's not always the case. I know many people who like Twilight because of the characters, and the plot line, not because it's a wish-fullfillment. And this thread is to find out what it is about the characters and the plot that catches so much attention.

As for Harry Potter, what made people like it in the first place? It wasn't just published one day and then the next everyone grew up with it. What made it so good that it became as popular as it is in the first place?

And if Eragon is a compilation of other books, what part of those other books make people like them? What is it that those other books have that catch people's attention?

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I think the books that are most popular are ones that play upon an emotion or aspect of life that most people have or want. It is a case of successfully appealing to a large number of people.

In the case of Harry Potter, the feeling of having the whole world against you appeals to most teens, while the idea of being taken away from your life and into a completely different more interesting/colourful world is one that I think everyone wants, even adults; and so the books are popular.
There are also other aspects of liking/identifying with characters and whatnot but the HP blooks have a charm about them (no pun intended) that draws people in. The first few are also very well written and so are easy to read for children and not too childish for adults. (Don't get me wrong, I don't like what the franchise eventually becomes, but the first three books were wonderful; I read them in my early teens)

For lots of people books are a form of escapism and these sorts of books have right amount of (occasionally plausible) fantasy that the reader could place themselves in or willingly want to subject themselves to.

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I think alot of people love or like harry potter because harry has the type of life not the wizardry life but human life with the dursleys that alot of people have. And then he goes off to a magical world, alot of people love this and wish that they could be harry. Plus it does have a great storyline with an evil that can seemingly never die.

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Yoshi-Miso
I think alot of people love or like harry potter because harry has the type of life not the wizardry life but human life with the dursleys that alot of people have. And then he goes off to a magical world, alot of people love this and wish that they could be harry. Plus it does have a great storyline with an evil that can seemingly never die.


also my sister says its for the drama in the books.
how it begins in with someone living in a place he or she doesn't want to be
people don't want them
but something happens and it switched.
in harry potter's case it was hagrid came and took harry to some peoples dream world
everyone loved him because he was the one who live the hope that one day the evil would die

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I think it's maybe the imagination it inspires. Do you have any ideahow many people have fantasies of going to hogwarts because it sounds so amazing, or how many girls fantasize about hookinh up with draco? biggrin lolz. Anyway, that one reason. Another my be if it's easy enough to read. I know a lot of people that don't like reading books if the vocabulary is too advanced for them

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Miss Rainboots
I think it's maybe the imagination it inspires. Do you have any ideahow many people have fantasies of going to hogwarts because it sounds so amazing, or how many girls fantasize about hookinh up with draco? biggrin lolz. Anyway, that one reason. Another my be if it's easy enough to read. I know a lot of people that don't like reading books if the vocabulary is too advanced for them


i agree with you too
once again my sister always talks about how amazing it would be

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The reason for their popularity is:

A) The way the book is presented to the general public. After all, appearance is key as well as the synopsis.
B) Generally for the fiction genre the readers are predominantly female meaning they are usually searching for romance. And I did enjoy TWILIGHT...at least the first two books. Girls like to read about the I'm-not-supermodel-gorgeous-but-gorgeous-in-my-own-way kind of girls, you know characters they can relate to and the leading male has to be some steaming hot guy or a bad boy or a musician or something that stands out and pulls at a girl's heart string.
C) The name. The character's name may not seem important but it kind of is. I don't know if you would like to read about a guy named Juice or something like that...but readers usually like pretty/attractive names. For example, Bella Swan is a beautiful name as well as Edward Cullen and Harry Potter is catchy.
D) I consider this key. The author usually is able to stretch out the suspense to multiple novels. It allows for more detail in the setting and the character grows as well. People like to feel a connection with the characters of the novel and so authors that are able to hold the suspense usually are popular.

I maybe wrong....but IDK this is what I believe what makes a novel popular.

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I was reading a book on why best-seller books are best-sellers. According to results, their sentence and word complexity is quite simple.

Best-sellers tend to use a smaller and easier to understand vocabulary. Their words tend to stay within 5 letters long.

So I guess simple literature, but obviously not too simple that's its Kindergarten, but enough that anyone of any level can understand and enjoy it.

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sixwingmortal
I was reading a book on why best-seller books are best-sellers. According to results, their sentence and word complexity is quite simple.

Best-sellers tend to use a smaller and easier to understand vocabulary. Their words tend to stay within 5 letters long.

So I guess simple literature, but obviously not too simple that's its Kindergarten, but enough that anyone of any level can understand and enjoy it.



but if its to simple its not fun to read rolleyes

example:

the boy cried.

the boy shead tears

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The reason books become popular in the first place is because Literary agents hype the everloving stuffing out of it. You know that you heard of a theme that's loved by the general populace, but loathed by critics and described as not worth your time? Those forms of entertainment. I can think of Wayan brothers films and any half-baked romantic Comedy.

I think Ms. Meyer's agent hyped it to kingdom come, and now it's popular. J.K. Rowling kept trying, and she found a Agent who hyped it up to many people. Even freaking Paolini knows how to hype up a book from his parents, and he become a best seller. *Twitches*

You can have a book with more cliches that California, but with a fantastic agent, you can sell a blind man glasses or a deaf person a stereo system.

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dah fuzzinator of dewm!
The reason books become popular in the first place is because Literary agents hype the everloving stuffing out of it. You know that you heard of a theme that's loved by the general populace, but loathed by critics and described as not worth your time? Those forms of entertainment. I can think of Wayan brothers films and any half-baked romantic Comedy.

I think Ms. Meyer's agent hyped it to kingdom come, and now it's popular. J.K. Rowling kept trying, and she found a Agent who hyped it up to many people. Even freaking Paolini knows how to hype up a book from his parents, and he become a best seller. *Twitches*

You can have a book with more cliches that California, but with a fantastic agent, you can sell a blind man glasses or a deaf person a stereo system.

That's an interesting opinion, but I don't agree.

For instance, Christopher Paolini hyped up his book, right? So why don't I like it?

That's the thing, there's more to it than marketing, or else everybody would like it. And some people don't. So, what is it about those books that makes people actually like them?

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well if its general evreyone understands it..... rolleyes
is general a bad thing question

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Alright, well, first I needed to actually look up "Twilight" before commenting about it here as I'd never heard of it before this discussion. (And they're making a movie, looks like!)

I don't think I have much to say on this subject, simply because it's pretty well moot. Our society is capitalistic. That goes for London too. It's all about money. Money makes things popular. Paris Hilton is a fine example. She became a celebrity for celebrity sake, having done nothing noteworthy in the entertainment industry. She is a celebrity because she has money and is a socialite.

Same goes with pretty much anything. You sink enough money into something and it plants the seed for popularity. It's called "Marketing". The books in this discussion aren't necessarily superb. I think it should be noted that they're all young adult novels. Of course the vocabulary is going to be reduced, as it's marketed and specified to a certain age group and audience (no surprise that the adults who don't usually read have read them too - they're easy reads).

When there's an interesting history in the author's background and a semi-marketable piece of prose they've scribbled out, agents see dollar signs. Now, I can't use Stephanie Meyer as an example here, because I don't know anything about her (and I'm too lazy to look her up on Wikipedia right now).

JK Rowling. The books are interesting because they are the epitome of what we look for in escapism. "Take me out of this horrible boring life and put me somewhere interesting!" That's the basic message of her first book Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. Where Rowling came from, however, makes her the kind of success story people want to know about. She was a single mom, an unemployed teacher, on the brink of homelessness when she wrote the first chapter of Harry Potter on a diner napkin. Even I think that it's great she managed to turn her life around so completely that she is now the second wealthiest woman in the UK - the first being the Queen herself.

Christopher Paolini wrote Eragon, as we all know. I read the first few chapters of the book, and only the first few chapters because I really couldn't bear it any more. His series relied more on a marketing stunt that his actual ability to write well. Agents and everyone else in charge of marketing his stories didn't so much care for the quality of the stories. The kid was writing stories and got published at 15 years old. That's the inspiring story. No one expects a 15 year old kid to be able to write well enough to be published, or even write a complete story. They wanted to market a "literary prodigy", and so Eragon was given the green light.

Now, with what little I know of Twilight (I'm reading about it here), all I can say that the story is pretty basic. It's a love story. It's a young adult novel. Girls like romance, and Vampires are hugely popular in fiction right now (thank you Buffy and Angel . . . Oh, and maybe that weirdo Ann Rice.).

You all do understand that the most powerful culture in the world is the young adult culture, right? The teenagers are the ones that are the most easily persuaded by what the Heads of Marketing in the entertainment industry dictate as "Pop Culture". It's all about the kids. In literature, if the kids like it that much, chances are the adults who want to connect with the kids do too. Or maybe they don't want to connect with the kids. Maybe the adults like young adult fiction because it's dumbed down, and let's face it, reading isn't really something a lot of adults have time for. What better way to spend a weekend than reading (and finishing) and easy book?

Oh, and FYI - if you want good Vampire romance, you may want to check out Blood Sucking Fiends: A love story by Christopher Moore, author of Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's childhood pal.

Hmm, looking back over this, I guess I had more to say than I thought . . . well, my friends do tell me that I'm nothing if not prolific. Heh.

Toodles,
~Lunar
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