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Hello there. I've noticed quite a few people out there asking about cliches, namely in an attempt to try to avoid them. Also, the idea of using cliches to test your writing against is overly simplified.

Either way, it's irrelevant. Cliches are not the end of the world, and considering the state of today, they're inevitable. So while we're here, let's learn to accept, and even more so, love, our trite overlords.

What is a cliche?

Just so that I'm not contested on this point, I am going to define 'cliche' as referred to here not as the dictionary definition, but by the definition that flys around the WF. This means, a cliche as in a plot point, character or any part of a character, part of setting, theme, etc., that sounds as if it's trite while being described. This is a huge difference from the dictionary definition, but again, the dictionary definition is irrelevant, we're addressing the WF's current needs.

Why should I accept them?

Cliches are everywhere. There are only 7 basic plots, so you're probably going to be using one of them. A romance that's 'boy meets girl' may be considered cliche, and adding on elements like he's a farmboy and she's a princess will just be adding more cliche. This is fine. In fact, I bet if you write it out, your audience won't care.

Why not? Because most audiences aren't tearing apart books because they're 'cliche.' Think about it! What do you look for in writing? Fascinating characters? A detailed setting? A well-paced plot? Those that judge your writing simply on whether or not you use a few cliched elements are very shallow readers, and hopefully that's not your target.

Personally, I look for style of the writing. I weigh it in books I read higher than character development and plot, both things that the WF puts huge emphasis on. The book could be full of cliches, but if the style engages me into the reading, I won't give a damn. It could be completely original, but if I don't like the style, reading will be a chore.

That aside, who is going to be reading this story? Are you keeping it for yourself, just a few friends, Gaia, or for publication? I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to improve, but you need to take these people into consideration and if these people care about cliches. I'll guarantee you, unless you have some weird friends, the ones that will care the most about cliches are the gaians.

Also, write what you want. If you want to write the most cliche things you can think of if you so desire. There's no such thing as the cliche-police. Nobody's going to stop you.

Okay. Why should we love them?

Because they're great tools, of course!

Don't think that having a cliched plot or character or setting or all three will make your story trite. That's simply not true -- if you're a good writer and put effort into your work, your story will shine. It doesn't really matter how original the writing is.

Also, cliches make excellent story fodder. When you start to write, you start out with a few ideas (many of them probably cliche), but it's impossible to tell how your writing will change them until you actually write. Cliches make excellent 'starter fluid', something to start you out writing, until you get momentum enough to sustain the story, and I guarantee that the story will either sustain the cliche as a part of its continuity, or it will become extraneous and you can edit it out in your next drafts. Whichever it is, you'll have a story with good continuity, and that's what you want, in the end. If your story has less merit without a cliche than with one, it's probably not a very good story in the first place.

So learn to live with them and love them. It'll do you, and the rest of the WFers, a service.
I keep hearing this "There are only # plots" but I've never seen anyone produce them.
Axioma
I keep hearing this "There are only # plots" but I've never seen anyone produce them.


1. Journey and Return
2. Quest
3. Overcoming The Monster
4. Comedy
5. Romance
6. Rags to Riches
7. Tragedy
My god, that's even worse than I thought. Those are so wide I could probably take any plot and come up with an argument that lets it fit under ANY of these.

How the hell is "Comedy" a plot? What can't fit under the absurdly wide umbrella of words such as "quest"?
Axioma
My god, that's even worse than I thought. Those are so wide I could probably take any plot and come up with an argument that lets it fit under ANY of these.

How the hell is "Comedy" a plot? What can't fit under the absurdly wide umbrella of words such as "quest"?


That's exactly the point of such wide topics. Most stories are a mix of a lot of them with one or two dominant ones.

A 'quest' involves getting something. The difference between it and 'journey and return' is that journey and return is internal and about learning something. Usually, they complement one another, but not all the time. A lot of times the character thinks they're doing a quest but the story is really journey and return.

'Comedy' means that the stakes are relatively low or belittled and confusion reigns until the end where it's resolved happily. A comedy plot and writing being comedic are two totally different things.

These usually don't take into account the subplots.

Hallowed Shade

Not sure about the rest of the people here, but I certainly equate the word "cliché" to its dictionary definition, not what you've defined it as. In the cliché thread you posted this link to, it looked to me like most everyone was using the dictionary definition too.

There's a difference between characters/plots that are "cliché" and those which are more archetyped, but still very original.

Honestly, if you're weighing style of writing over character development and plot, then you're not reading for the sake of the story, you're reading for the sake of how it sounds. Those are two rather unlike things. With that much emphasis on writing style, should you really be commenting on clichés in the story-line and characters? You admit yourself that's not what you read for first and foremost. Anyone can write a story in a unique fashion while still having it remain a cliché - style doesn't really have too much of an impact on that.

Cliché's are certainly unavoidable, and there's no reason to completely avoid all of them at all times, but like I mentioned, there's a difference between a totally/mostly clichéd character/story (or even one which is completely original but has a VERY unoriginal part to it - usually the ending, ruining a majority of the impact of the story) and one which uses a basic structure (archetype/stereotype) with original details.

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I don't much care for the WF's working definition of cliche, but we're not here to discuss that.

The definition around here seems to be that everything that has been done before is a cliche. The only way around one is to add little twists.

My opinion is that a cliche with twists is still a cliche. Werepanthers with a weakness for gold isn't something new and origonal, it's just the same old idea with some word replacement.
oh wow...... O>O this has more truth to it then is probably nice to hear about......
*checks storys off under list.....* i think i have one of each
Dr. Haphazard, I think you just set off the Dooms Day Machine. Now no one will want to write, and now society will self-destruction from its own stupidity, low imagination, and short attention span.

Aw well. We've Meet Again...
Klaark
I don't much care for the WF's working definition of cliche, but we're not here to discuss that.

The definition around here seems to be that everything that has been done before is a cliche. The only way around one is to add little twists.

My opinion is that a cliche with twists is still a cliche. Werepanthers with a weakness for gold isn't something new and origonal, it's just the same old idea with some word replacement.


Yes, but even if you add the twist, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that the werepanthers are weak to gold, just about how you portray it.

Hallowed Shade

Klaark
My opinion is that a cliche with twists is still a cliche. Werepanthers with a weakness for gold isn't something new and origonal, it's just the same old idea with some word replacement.
Okay, have fun with this "cliché twist"!

Ninja - cliché Eastern based bad-asses.
Penguins - cliché "cutesy" animal.
Magical glowing swords - cliché swords.
Trying to save your world from an evil race that's trying to take it over - cliché overall plot.
Traveling a great distance to do so - cliché plot element.

So I write a story about a flock of ninja penguins wielding glowing magical swords who need to save the world from the evil race of the polar bears. They make a harrowing trip (which would be all detailed and have subplots, by the way) across the world so they can meet with the polar bears and have a final conflict, deciding the fate of the world.

There are certainly plenty of cliché items in there, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a whole lot of people who call that whole thing "cliché", or even "cliché with a twist" despite the fact that many might pick out those things in an individual list as "cliché". That is, I've used lots of cliché things in ways they are not often seen, making them, well, not quite as cliché as they were before.

As for there being x amount of plots available, making them so broad makes it impossible to call them "cliché" in and of themselves. What's going to be considered cliché is not typically the overall theme of the story, but in what manner its told (note, I do not mean the style of writing here; I mean the actual story). I think it's safe to say that a merry band of varied races (read: human, elf, dwarf, and/or halfling) having to save the world from the impending doom of the dark lord is going to be considered far more cliché than magic sword wielding ninja penguins who need to fight a creature that lives across the world from them and should, by all conceivable logic, have not even a clue as to their existence (conceivable logic says this because they both exist to human minds, unlike the fantastical creatures found in scenario 1, whose social/political/etc. interactions we have no preconceived notions of), despite the fact that many of the same elements are going to exist in the same story, and the overall plot of "long journey to save the world from bad-doers" is fairly the same.

Eloquent Phantom

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The power behind clichés is that everyone knows them. It’s the one thing that makes them anathema to the creative process, but it’s also amazingly useful. Part of a writer’s job is to connect with their audience, to get them to empathize with characters, and believe the plot. One of the powers of the cliché is that it is highly likely that the reader has experienced or has personal knowledge of it. The right use of one makes the reader comfortable.

However, one a reader is comfortable and situated it is always time to perhaps wander off in a new direction. What’s old does become new, but not without that attention diverting subversion of what seemed at-first ordinary. A great deal of jokes involve setting the listener up for what they expect to be an obvious conclusion and then giving them something unexpected but still plausible.

This is exactly how something that seems cliché could be used to entertain the reader – and at the same time provide a worthy story to tell. Use them, but subvert them. The ordinary can be used to disguise the unexpected, or to soften disbelief. An unconventional hero on a conventional hero quest (Dirk Gently). Some clichés are only so because they’re so general and vague that they cover everything.

As a writer thou should be toying with plots, clichés, and all manner of ordinary-seeming malarkey like a cat batting at string. The comfortable gives readers a reason to believe, but it’s up to the author to add their little nuances and spices to make it enjoyable and memorable.
I consider clichés to be as much of an integral part of storytelling as proper use of grammar is an integral part of writing.

I simply integrate the ones that are of use, and leave out the ones that would detract from the story itself.

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I'm afraid that those seven examples you give are inadequate to describe every possible story out there. What about simple survival stories, such as Hatchet. It is by no means a journey, as the boy doesn't actually go anywhere. It's just man versus nature, no going anywhere. And what about stories based on political tension that are just that. No monster is being overcome, no rags are turning into riches, and it isn't exactly the traditional quest. It's just to see who will come out on top. And where exactly do murder mysteries fit in those? They certainly aren't tragedy. I suppose you could consider the criminal a monster, but in craftier tales they are simply people with motives contrary to a given law. Then there's sports stories, which definitely don't fit into any of the above (and don't even try to call them rags to riches; if a team was raggedy and crappy, it wouldn't be recognized).

And those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure with some more thought more completely separate plots could be produced. I guess that what I am trying to say is that by believing that there is a limit to human creativity (and by acknowledging those seven feeble categories, that is essentially what you are doing), you are admiting defeat, not necessarily as a writer, but definitely as a storyteller.
Toyomo16
I'm afraid that those seven examples you give are inadequate to describe every possible story out there. What about simple survival stories, such as Hatchet. It is by no means a journey, as the boy doesn't actually go anywhere. It's just man versus nature, no going anywhere. And what about stories based on political tension that are just that. No monster is being overcome, no rags are turning into riches, and it isn't exactly the traditional quest. It's just to see who will come out on top. And where exactly do murder mysteries fit in those? They certainly aren't tragedy. I suppose you could consider the criminal a monster, but in craftier tales they are simply people with motives contrary to a given law. Then there's sports stories, which definitely don't fit into any of the above (and don't even try to call them rags to riches; if a team was raggedy and crappy, it wouldn't be recognized).

And those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure with some more thought more completely separate plots could be produced. I guess that what I am trying to say is that by believing that there is a limit to human creativity (and by acknowledging those seven feeble categories, that is essentially what you are doing), you are admiting defeat, not necessarily as a writer, but definitely as a storyteller.


Sports stories, with teams that rise to the top, are usually rags to riches, yes. Just because they're not getting rich, they're rising to the top from a low position, which is what rags to riches entails. Alternatively, they could be 'Overcoming the Monster,' not that the other team are monsters, but in that there's something to be defeated. Survival stories are usually Journey and Return because the character usually goes out and returns home with newfound knowledge, which is what Journey and Return is. Mysteries are usually Quest, because it involves trying to get a tangible goal at the end, whereas a horror story would be Overcoming the Monster.

The titles can't really be taken at face value, they're descriptions of what the goal of each story is, not the actual story itself. If there's a known goal to get to at the end, it's quest, if there's something to defeat, it's overcoming the monster, if it's about newfound knowledge and bringing it back, it's journey and return.

I'm not trying to say that there's a limit to human creativity, but the vast majority of all fiction that's not slice of life (which really has no plot) can be classified as one of these.

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