Welcome to Gaia! ::


NOTE: I've no answers, sai, say sorry.

***


I want to talk to you about lying to your reader. Specifically, if it should be done, and if so, how.

I'm thinking of twists in the story, those places where you get to smash the reader's understanding of the story like a man destroying an ongoing chess match with a signle furious swipe of his hand. The ones where it turns out that he's really dead, and she's actually an alien, and it's actually a cookbook, and the purloined letter was on the desk all along.

Now, in order for a twist to work, the reader has to expect something else. They should have no doubt that A is about to happen, when what really happens is B. And the readers form their expectation of what WILL happen in the narrative based on what HAS happened in the narrative and on what the narrator has said.

How do you mislead?

In some cases, it's easy if you can rely on an unreliable narrator, who may simply lie blithely to the reader, keeping the writer safe. Equally, there is no problem with simply kicking some minor character from the backstage into the highlights and havign them read a prepared speech filled with, well, falsehood.
If you want the reader to think the castle is a hundred years old, when in reality it is a hundred thousand years old, all you need do is pluck a couple of strings on a nameless dummy to make it say "It's 100 years old," and they'll believe you, and when it turns out that isn't the case, hey, don't blame me, blame the dummy, it was his fault.

Or you can just not give out critical information and let the reader develop erroneous assumptions. This is pretty smooth if you can pull it off, but I'd be too afraid of the readers instantly developing suspicions as to why I'm keeping something back. If the situation were normal, they'd reason, she would be honest with us, and her attempted obfuscation proves she has something to hide. That means that she's trying to pull a fast one on us. And before long, the twist is ruined.

And now, the reason I've called you all here today - what about just plain LYING?

I mean, can I type

Quote:
"I'm sorry," he whispered to the corpse of the girl he had loved and killed, smoke still rising from the hole in her forehead, the expression on her face one of terminal surprise.

Even in the end, she had not believed he would really do it, no matter the atrocities that marked her soul. And now she was dead.

The cruel wind blew across the valley and brought no respite from the heat.


And then, after a certain amount of time, either explicitly contradict myself by saying she was never actually dead, or introduce a character whom Mark and the reader are supposed to THINK is the dead Sonya not actually dead, but who is actually just pretending to be Sonya risen again? In the latter case, I would have to have the narrator call the impersonator "Sonya", as in "Sonya said this and Sonya did that" because if I kept calling her "the girl" in an attempt to remain technically truthful while misleading the readers that I meant "Sonya" rather than "An evil clone twin from dimension X".

You know what I mean? Is it okay for the narrator to lie and then later contradict himself with the truth even when the narrator is NOT looking through everything through the eyes of an obviously fallible character, but who is supposed to be giving you the gospel truth from the mouth of the Writer herself?
It depends.

Even if a character isn't explicitly narrating, the story tends to happen from their viewpoint. 3rd-person-omniscient viewpoint is rare, it's more usual to have a limited viewpoint following a single character and recording their thoughts, albeit in a more detached narrative form.

If you're following any individual character's viewpoint, however loosely, it's perfectly fine to lie and then contradict their former view of reality.

If it's the voice of an actually infallible, omniscient narrator, then I would stay away from any outright lies and contradictions, although creating false impressions to mislead is fine.

Proxy Hunter

10,725 Points
  • Wall Street 200
  • Overstocked 200
  • Tycoon 200
I completely agree.
PAnZuRiEL
It depends.

Even if a character isn't explicitly narrating, the story tends to happen from their viewpoint. 3rd-person-omniscient viewpoint is rare, it's more usual to have a limited viewpoint following a single character and recording their thoughts, albeit in a more detached narrative form.

If you're following any individual character's viewpoint, however loosely, it's perfectly fine to lie and then contradict their former view of reality.

If it's the voice of an actually infallible, omniscient narrator, then I would stay away from any outright lies and contradictions, although creating false impressions to mislead is fine.
So it's basically okay for the narrative to read "Hi, Mark," Sonya said rather than "Hi, Mark," he heard Sonya say.

Because in the first one, the narrator is actively endorsing the lie that the speaker is actually Sonya, and in the second, it's only Mark's perception I describe, but in doing so, I risk people raising eyebrows as to why I'm constantly indulging in such lawyer-speak as to distance the identity of the speaker from myself and relegating it to what Mark saw or THOUGHT he saw.
Axioma
So it's basically okay for the narrative to read "Hi, Mark," Sonya said rather than "Hi, Mark," he heard Sonya say.

Because in the first one, the narrator is actively endorsing the lie that the speaker is actually Sonya, and in the second, it's only Mark's perception I describe, but in doing so, I risk people raising eyebrows as to why I'm constantly indulging in such lawyer-speak as to distance the identity of the speaker from myself and relegating it to what Mark saw or THOUGHT he saw.

Of course. That's the only way that makes sense.

Although you may not like the example, I cite "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire", wherein Mad Eye Moody is continually referred to as such, but in the end it turns out it's Bartemius Crouch Jr. using polyjuice potion.

As long as you clear up the "inconsistencies" properly, and make it clear whenever you're supposed to that "no, that was all a misunderstanding", then that's really the only way to go about it.
Axioma
"Hi, Mark," Sonya said


I'd say that was absolutely fine. Depending on circumstance, and how well you've written up to this revelation, it would really make me stop, pause, grit teeth and find out exactly why you lied before bludgeoning you with the book.

But if you pull it off, hell, it's going to be a damned fine tale.

For the instance with endorsing the lie, see Panzuriel's post on viewpoint. Is it going to be a shock to see Sonya again after Mark supposedly killed her, or did he leave her alive just enough?

Isn't lying-to-the-reader the sort of thing that happens regularly in those thriller/mystery novels with the sting in the tale?
I think straight-off lying can only be accomplished through a first-person narrator. If the narrator is third-person, then it has to be unbiased and truthful--though it can be deceptive--but no lying.
Maybe I have a hard time being fooled by twists, I can usually spot them coming a few chapters before they actually happen. I also begin reading most books with the expectation that the narriator will lie to me in some way, usually through one of his or her own characters, so because I expect to be lied to I unconciously seek what that lie is going to be and find the truth.

Good thread, by the way. In the Writers' Forum, it's rare that someone actually talks about writing.

8,700 Points
  • The Perfect Setup 150
  • Risky Lifestyle 100
  • Conversationalist 100
It only works if you show the reader lies. Telling them lies, like telling them anything else, won't work.
Tailos-chan
Axioma
"Hi, Mark," Sonya said


I'd say that was absolutely fine. Depending on circumstance, and how well you've written up to this revelation, it would really make me stop, pause, grit teeth and find out exactly why you lied before bludgeoning you with the book.

But if you pull it off, hell, it's going to be a damned fine tale.

For the instance with endorsing the lie, see Panzuriel's post on viewpoint. Is it going to be a shock to see Sonya again after Mark supposedly killed her, or did he leave her alive just enough?

Isn't lying-to-the-reader the sort of thing that happens regularly in those thriller/mystery novels with the sting in the tale?
Well, in this particular instance, which hasn't actually come to pass, Sonya has supposedly come back through a miracle, which Mark accepts because they've been on one of those cruises across fantasyland where you see a shitload of weird stuff happen, so after having met a herd of dust devils, depopulated a small town with an enslaved army of bloodsucking tumbleweed and having had other various adventures I haven't quite decided on including nosferatu and dimension-walking spiders with lifespans of just about enough to have held conversations with the first lungfish and so on, he can't really come up with an argument against Sonya being alive by miracle.

Of course, that's not actually Sonya, but more like a doppelganger from Dimension X.

So I'm actually putting myself to the lie twice. First I contradict myself by saying Hey, she's not really dead after all! Hah! I guess I milked that angst for free! and then, I say Hey, she's not really Sonya after all, so I guess I was lying again.
I dont agree with lying to your readers. But I believe its perfectly fine to not tell them certain information which could affect their understanding of something.

In my last book, one of my main characters was the son of the villain. I didnt tell my readers, but I dropped hints all over the place. I had so much fun doing it. It wasnt lying to my readers, but I didnt tell them everything.
I have a similar deal in a fanfic, where a character is the son of a major canon character. Haven't dropped many hints yet, though...
For misleading the reader, having a limited narrator, such as a character, or even limited third person is the way to go. If you are telling the story from Mark's point of view, and Mark thinks this person is Sonya, then it is okay to call her Sonya.
Sounds like an interesting story. Unfortunately, it is now ruined for me, as I know the twist...
Or you can have the characters creating a scandal like in my story.
Of course it's all right to lie in a fictional book. Your readers aren't going to sue you for messing with their minds. If you were writing a biography or something serious, no it wouldn't be okay to just randomly type "The Civil War was 100% caused by General Sherman masquerading in a pink tutu through Washington, D.C." But it's different for fiction. The readers are helplessly grasping for an understanding of a story they like, and then when some piece of that twists and crumbles beneath them, they'll automatically be like "OH WHAT THE FUUUUUCK" and probably continue reading.

Of course, you have to be careful with what you twist. It can all go to Hell very easily if you kill off a character and then the whole story turns into a rant, or maybe just stupidly drops off into an abyss. Resolve is key, though you don't have to completely fill in all the holes in a book to have success.

5,950 Points
  • Money Never Sleeps 200
  • Forum Junior 100
  • Invisibility 100
I never like it when there's a plot twist that consists completely of "Nope that didn't happen. This really happened." It's like the author just goes, "haha, made you look," and it lacks any form of wit or subtlety. Plot twists work best, not when you give the wrong information, but when you give misleading truths. Create characters with a certain personality that will make the reader think they will act one way, but actually act another; create situations that are cloudy, but just clear enough to give the reader the wrong idea. Manipulate point of view so that when one character observes something, it seems different through their eyes than it would at the actual even. For example: Bob points his gun at Gary. Scene switch. Moe hears a gunshot. Did Bob really shoot Gary? You never said so, but the reader will believe it if you have the proper personalities. If you need a good example of these strategies in action, I'd be happy to give you one from a story that I'm writing.

Quick Reply

Submit
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum