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Anachronism.

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I love Dinosaur Comics. They have been the starting point for many great and hilarious conversations. For example, this comic begs the question:

Are there any examples of anachronism used successfully in literature? Would steam punk be an example of this? What is the purpose of anachronism anyway, or is there no intrinsic value? Where did Shakespeare get his MP3?
Well, you can only really have anachronisms if the story's meant to have taken place in this world, right? So I think steampunk's exempt. Or just a really broad example.

By "used successfully," you mean they used it on purpose to advance the story? I'm not sure I can think of one right now. I'll mull it over.


And the dinosaur comics ******** rock.
Does an anachronism have to be an actual physical OBJECT?

Because one thing I liked about Dan Simmons' Illium, part of which deals with the Siege of Troy, was how all those ancient Greeks like Nestor and Oddyseus and Achillies speak like classical homeric characters, except for when they're upset or otherwise thrown off track, whereupon they tend to say things like "******** you and the horse you rode in on".
Axioma
Does an anachronism have to be an actual physical OBJECT?

Because one thing I liked about Dan Simmons' Illium, part of which deals with the Siege of Troy, was how all those ancient Greeks like Nestor and Oddyseus and Achillies speak like classical homeric characters, except for when they're upset or otherwise thrown off track, whereupon they tend to say things like "******** you and the horse you rode in on".


Hmm. Well the Greeks were an advanced civilization, it is possible they used a word similar to ********, but I think that might count. neutral
Shakespeare himself used them like woah. For example, in that scene in Julius Cesar where Brutus sees Julius' ghost, he is reading a book and listening to the chime of a clock. Neither of which existed at the time.
Sergeant Sargent
Axioma
Does an anachronism have to be an actual physical OBJECT?

Because one thing I liked about Dan Simmons' Illium, part of which deals with the Siege of Troy, was how all those ancient Greeks like Nestor and Oddyseus and Achillies speak like classical homeric characters, except for when they're upset or otherwise thrown off track, whereupon they tend to say things like "******** you and the horse you rode in on".


Hmm. Well the Greeks were an advanced civilization, it is possible they used a word similar to ********, but I think that might count. neutral
It's just nifty how they switch from "As was foretold by the prophecy of Delphi, on the battlefield our fates will meet, to see whose spear is favored by the gods" to "Oh s**t ******** me!".
Anonymous Legion
Shakespeare himself used them like woah. For example, in that scene in Julius Cesar where Brutus sees Julius' ghost, he is reading a book and listening to the chime of a clock. Neither of which existed at the time.


A friend also mentioned that there is a clock shown in the first scene of the play. I think the reason why Shakespeare did this is because his audience would relate to the concept of clocks and books, but not sundails and scrolls. Or perhaps he simply didn't know what everyday life was like in Greece.

What confuses me is that anachronism is refured to as a literary "technique" and yet the only examples I can think of seem to be mistakes on part of the author. So how can you call it a "technique?"
Sergeant Sargent
Anonymous Legion
Shakespeare himself used them like woah. For example, in that scene in Julius Cesar where Brutus sees Julius' ghost, he is reading a book and listening to the chime of a clock. Neither of which existed at the time.


A friend also mentioned that there is a clock shown in the first scene of the play. I think the reason why Shakespeare did this is because his audience would relate to the concept of clocks and books, but not sundails and scrolls. Or perhaps he simply didn't know what everyday life was like in Greece.

What confuses me is that anachronism is refured to as a literary "technique" and yet the only examples I can think of seem to be mistakes on part of the author. So how can you call it a "technique?"
That bit about Illium is the technique. What your friend described is the technique.

It's to give the stuff some grounding in the reader's world.

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I think they occur when theme and mood are valued far more tha accuracy.

While not a book, Samurai Champloo had a lot of anachronisms that helped make it better. Yakuza bosses in the 1800s with 1990 style shades? Cool. Rapping samurai with flame decals on his coat? Cool, if a little silly.

That's a good example of it being a technique.

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Anonymous Legion
Shakespeare himself used them like woah. For example, in that scene in Julius Cesar where Brutus sees Julius' ghost, he is reading a book and listening to the chime of a clock. Neither of which existed at the time.


There's another in Macbeth:
"As cannons overcharged with double cracks, so they
Doubly redoubled strokes upon the foe"
No cannons in the time of Macbeth.

Sergeant Sargent
What confuses me is that anachronism is refured to as a literary "technique" and yet the only examples I can think of seem to be mistakes on part of the author. So how can you call it a "technique?"


I can only think of two situations: When it's used for comedic effect (as stated in the comic) or when it's used to build a world (as in steampunk and time travel stories). Although it could also work in surrealist writing, so long as it was used in a way that the reader knew it was intentional.

Edit: Or what Klaark said above. That makes sense too.
Klaark
I think they occur when theme and mood are valued far more tha accuracy.

While not a book, Samurai Champloo had a lot of anachronisms that helped make it better. Yakuza bosses in the 1800s with 1990 style shades? Cool. Rapping samurai with flame decals on his coat? Cool, if a little silly.

That's a good example of it being a technique.


Alright, that makes sense. I think I've seen something like it used in historical fantasy too. In a book I was reading for research, it said that during the late 1700s a entire family might share a single bed, resulting in men sharing the same bed, resulting in the possiblity of very confused readers. Now that I think of it, I've never read a fantasy book where a group of men shared the same bed.
Axioma
Does an anachronism have to be an actual physical OBJECT?

Because one thing I liked about Dan Simmons' Illium, part of which deals with the Siege of Troy, was how all those ancient Greeks like Nestor and Oddyseus and Achillies speak like classical homeric characters, except for when they're upset or otherwise thrown off track, whereupon they tend to say things like "******** you and the horse you rode in on".


The Greeks and Romans had lots and lots of swear words, some that don't even have an English equivalant. And in Latin the word for '********' even starts with an 'f'.

Having people swear isn't an anachronism. Its the fact that the English translation is so direct might make it seem odd, since when a lot of those classical works were translated they were cleaned up by monks and conservative college professors. But its perfectly legit. xD
Sergeant Sargent
Klaark
I think they occur when theme and mood are valued far more tha accuracy.

While not a book, Samurai Champloo had a lot of anachronisms that helped make it better. Yakuza bosses in the 1800s with 1990 style shades? Cool. Rapping samurai with flame decals on his coat? Cool, if a little silly.

That's a good example of it being a technique.


Alright, that makes sense. I think I've seen something like it used in historical fantasy too. In a book I was reading for research, it said that during the late 1700s a entire family might share a single bed, resulting in men sharing the same bed, resulting in the possiblity of very confused readers. Now that I think of it, I've never read a fantasy book where a group of men shared the same bed.

The closest thing I think I could relate to the sharing of beds would be a scene that I heard occured in the book "Eldest." One in which the main character shared a bath with a male elf, which was quite common a couple hundred of years ago. (And prior to the spreading of Christianity, Greeks considered homo sexuality more proper than hetero sexuality.)

Another possible Anachronism would be that the people actually had decent dental plans. Anybody that hasn't brushed their teeth from birth to age ten would suffer so badly from gingivitus that they would be spitting blood from just one go at brushing. Yet some characters in fantasy and such can eat quite healthily. Ever wonder why soup was so popular among the peasants? It's so that they could dip hard objects into it, because without soup they possibly wouldn't even be able to bite their bread. (Though this depends on the individual's luck, as some people lose more teeth or get cavities more than others.)
kitedragon
(And prior to the spreading of Christianity, Greeks considered homo sexuality more proper than hetero sexuality.)
Umm, actually, no.

Heterosexuality was the accepted and glorified norm. Everyone was expected to have children to carry on their name and their bloodline- hence why Leonidas' three hundred were all older, married men with sons.

Homosexuality was accepted, and seen as an ultimate bond between male friends. One Greek philosopher stated that a unit of lovers would hold together on the battlefield better than a unit of comrades.

Another thing to point out is that homosexuality for the Greeks was a whole different thing than it is now. They were men who happened to ******** other men between ******** their wife. There was no "homosexual lifestyle" like we speak of today.

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