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Codger

We, as writer's, are creatures driven by the desire to communicate an idea, even if it's just to ourselves. This issue has been raised in several threads lately (I forget what ones, but they're around somewhere), but I'm not going to beat it to death. Rather, I'd like to talk about a trap a lot of writers fall into that directly relates to that concept. Namely, that of caring too much what the readers will think about your work, and, stemming from that, caring too much about whether or not you should include a certain element or leave it out because some people will or will not like it.

Now, let it be clear that I am not advocating we should all just say ******** you to any and all individuals who give us a critique because it would mean we'd be listening to the readers. That's one of the stupidest things to do as a writer, because critiques help us hone our skills and improve our abilities. Rather, I'm saying that you should stop worrying about whether or not people will like your work or if you should or should not include something because the readers might not like it.

Why?

Let's examine each.


"Iz this gud!?!?!?!?" Syndrome
This is a matter of seeking validation of one's writing, and I've touched on this in another thread. As a beginner writer, this is understandable, and often desirable if one is serious about getting into writing. The ego boost it can provide can make the difference between giving up on writing altogether or sticking it out until one passes through the rough early stages of one's writerly development.

The problem, however, is that it is not a trait one wants to hold onto. Why? Because every piece does not need validation, and maintaining the "Is this good?" mindset is more indicative of an individual who is unsure of him/herself rather than of their own work. In effect, they are treating the piece as if they were that piece, when they are not. It is merely a product, and no matter how much of yourself has been put into writing it, it does not change that it is only, and forever will be, a piece of writing. It is therefore an essential step as a writer to stop seeking validation of your work and understand that, even if it's bad, it is not a reflection of you as an individual.


"Shuld I put this in mai story?" Syndrome
This is a much worse practice than the "Is this good?" syndrome, because it shows a (near complete) lack of faith in one's ability to write, to tell a story, or to come up with ideas. While this applies, to some extent, to the "Is this good?" mind set, in this case, the writer is relying entirely on other people to tell them how and what to write. This can, if just beginning, be a good thing, because it lets you get the hang of writing, but it's best to lose this habit as quickly as possible.

The biggest reason for this is because stories written from the desire to please as many people as possible invariably suck because they're so boring and watered down. All you need to do is look at network television to see this in action, where most of the shows have gotten to the point where most of them are almost indistinguishable from each other. What happened? The television writers go by formula and demographics, rather than story telling, aiming to please as broad a range of people as they possibly can. Because of this, you'll rarely, if ever, encounter an intellectual conversation about things like politics or physics or philosophy in something like Everyone Loves Raymond or CSI, and you especially won't see it in the "reality" shows.

Secondly, including something in your story just because your friends (or people on gaia, or whatever) think it's cool because it worked in Inuyasha or Trigun or whatever makes the story inconsistent. Inconsistent stories are painful to read (right after poorly written stories), because it's hard to follow what's going on and it's hard to understand the characters and their world. Why is Event X happening and how does it follow from the story that's already been set up? Why does Character #3209 have the abilities they do and does it make sense for them to have them?


So what works for curing these two syndromes?

First, ask yourself if you're making changes or including/removing something because someone said you should. Do those changes or inclusions/removals improve the story? No? Then don't listen to the advice you've been given. If it would improve the story, make the changes your way. It is, after all, your story.

Second, stop thinking in terms of pleasing the reader and start thinking about what would make the story a good story. Do you have a brilliant idea of your own that would fit the story perfectly (killing a well liked character is the best example of this)? Don't squash it just because some people wouldn't like it. If it fits the story and is a natural extension of what's been happening in the story so far, use the idea. Just don't, for the love of good story telling, undo whatever your idea later in the story unless you have a damn good reason for it. Robert Jordan is a great example of this, where no characters ever stay dead even when they rightly should.

In short, stop caring so much what your readers want, because most of what they'll tell you is not going to be appropriate for your story. It's your story, and you're the only who can tell it like it's meant to be told.

Learned Gaian

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You have to care about your readers unless you're writing you story for yourself.

Two reasons mentioned in 78 reasons your book will never be published and 14 reasons it might are 'You don't know your audience' and 'You don't trust our audience.

However, your are very right. The first several stpes in getting a story off the ground is 'shut up and do it' Refinement and audience seeking comes later.

All stories are defined by good balance. You have to write a story people care about that you also care about. Bad balance equals bad results.

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I agree. "Does this story sound like s**t the way I have it written?" is a much better question that "Would this story sound like s**t if this happens?"

Codger

Yami_no_Eyes
You have to care about your readers unless you're writing you story for yourself.

Two reasons mentioned in 78 reasons your book will never be published and 14 reasons it might are 'You don't know your audience' and 'You don't trust our audience.

However, your are very right. The first several stpes in getting a story off the ground is 'shut up and do it' Refinement and audience seeking comes later.

All stories are defined by good balance. You have to write a story people care about that you also care about. Bad balance equals bad results.

Agreed. This is aimed mostly at the beginning writers, who are the ones most likely to be affected by what I talked about, so I'm not saying a writer should never care about the audience, but rather that writing the story in the first place is more important than the audience. Like with my network tv example, writing to an audience rather than writing for the story is going to yield mediocre results, at best, and it's that habit that needs to be avoided if you expect your work to be as good as it can be.
I really, really like this rant, Endrael. And I'll admit that sometimes I don't agree with you, but in this instance, I think I'm marching to your drum.

This is advice that I should take. I need to stop worrying about other's opinions and just write it out, especially in the first draft stage. Editing is hugely useful, but more useful when there's a finished product to edit! I'm a decent writer and a good enough editor that I don't need to nance about whether this one word or that is going to make or break the respect of my reader. I generally can tell for myself, and I don't need to hear another person's opinion. (In the first go-round, anyway.)

Codger

Klaark
I agree. "Does this story sound like s**t the way I have it written?" is a much better question that "Would this story sound like s**t if this happens?"

rofl I like that summary. mad d Very effective.
Amen.

I'm becoming increasing frustrated with these two syndromes, because they're every-freaking-where. Every day there are at least five new threads asking for validation of a poem/story/suicide note. How can you be a successful writer if you don't have enough faith in yourself to write something (GASP) without online validation?

Also - - guess what. I DON'T CARE. I don't care about your character profiles or your amazinglykeohmygod plotlines. Write it and then I'll take a look. I don't have enough hours in the day to read through plot summaries. It's your own goddamn story. So I quoth, "Shut up and write."
Hmm, you make a bit of a logic jump here. Your arguments are very coherent, but not caring about what your readers want is a step far beyond; after all, readers are, in the end, the only true test of your work. No harm can come from listening to what they want and even considering it if you yourself are competant to make judgment calls on what you really should do. There's no line to draw on that one; it's just a skill you have to develop as a writer. True, readers usually aren't the best source of advice, but we mustn't forget that writing always, always, always exists for the benefit of the reader, and what they think does bear directly on how well-received your work will be.

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Endrael
Yami_no_Eyes
You have to care about your readers unless you're writing you story for yourself.

Two reasons mentioned in 78 reasons your book will never be published and 14 reasons it might are 'You don't know your audience' and 'You don't trust our audience.

However, your are very right. The first several stpes in getting a story off the ground is 'shut up and do it' Refinement and audience seeking comes later.

All stories are defined by good balance. You have to write a story people care about that you also care about. Bad balance equals bad results.

Agreed. This is aimed mostly at the beginning writers, who are the ones most likely to be affected by what I talked about, so I'm not saying a writer should never care about the audience, but rather that writing the story in the first place is more important than the audience. Like with my network tv example, writing to an audience rather than writing for the story is going to yield mediocre results, at best, and it's that habit that needs to be avoided if you expect your work to be as good as it can be.


This should be taught in Art School, really. Too many people try to go for an idea or an audience and don't ever really sit down and ******** write.

Writing is one of those weird arts where you should go back and fix stuff after you finish it for the most part.

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i just write for heck of it...

Codger

LordSoma
Hmm, you make a bit of a logic jump here. Your arguments are very coherent, but not caring about what your readers want is a step far beyond; after all, readers are, in the end, the only true test of your work. No harm can come from listening to what they want and even considering it if you yourself are competant to make judgment calls on what you really should do. There's no line to draw on that one; it's just a skill you have to develop as a writer. True, readers usually aren't the best source of advice, but we mustn't forget that writing always, always, always exists for the benefit of the reader, and what they think does bear directly on how well-received your work will be.

Aye, and I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that writing the first draft of a story with the intent of pleasing the audience isn't exactly effective, and that you should write the story for the story and not the audience. I've never made any claim that ignoring the readers is good practice, and I state as much in the rant. It's when the first draft (and beyond) is done that you need to begin concerning yourself with the feedback of your readers, because it's at that point that the story needs the feedback, and not before.

Basically, write the story, and then worry about the readers, not the other way around.
Endrael
Basically, write the story, and then worry about the readers, not the other way around.

Ah yes, much better way of putting it.

Questionable Cat

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Thank you, Endrael! I always say this, but I don't think they listen to me because my posts are so short.

Codger

Ace of Shadows
Thank you, Endrael! I always say this, but I don't think they listen to me because my posts are so short.

If it's any consolation, I doubt the people who need to understand this are going to listen to this, either. confused
What you are adressing is one of the sins of writing. Pandering, that's what it is.

So, in short, yeah... but you have to strike a balance, it may be good to write what makes sense, but if what makes sense is as boring as hell, it may not be a bad idea to do a little of it. Who cares about this kid at school? Make something happen to them, damn it!

But don't do it just according to what the audience thinks. Err, yeah. I'm a little incoherent right now. xp

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