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At what point does a sex scene become smut?

all sex scenes are smut 0.12053571428571 12.1% [ 54 ]
when there is more than two peopel involved 0.064732142857143 6.5% [ 29 ]
when fluids are described 0.15178571428571 15.2% [ 68 ]
when the scene detracts from the story 0.66294642857143 66.3% [ 297 ]
Total Votes:[ 448 ]
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When is it appropriate to have a sex scene in a story and to what degree is it appropriate to descrip that scene? I think it should be entirly left out unless either you are writting a romance novel or it is vitally important to the story to have the scene. What do you think?

Also: what is your opinion on using words like 'member'? Does anyone think that if you can't write out the words you are to immature to write a sex scene?

JaenTalil had a good point so I have included his post here. Read and respond to this peopel!

JadenTalil
I was expecting more from this thread, but there wasn't really much worth noting after I abandoned it after page two. confused It seems the general consensus has been, "When it moves the story forward." and the thread hasn't progressed much beyond that. So maybe it's time to bring in some more questions (which, at this point, are more likely to be read by the thread regulars than anyone else).


What defines smut as opposed to sex-to-further-the-story?

I'm aware that there's the obvious answer of, "Smut is when sex IS the story.", but that's an obviously incomplete answer, because there are stories that aren't smut where sex is the main point, and stories that are considered smut but have sex as only a tangent to the story.


Of what use are sex scenes in exploring characterization, situations, and cultural/societal matters?

Almost no one in the whole thread has even mentioned this aspect, and it can be an extremely powerful driving force for a story. Sex scenes don't even have to be included! It can function on the level of being insinuated, such as exploring the ramifications of racism and inequality, with someone having sex with someone "socially unacceptable" even before the events of the story proper.


What about gender roles?

And this hasn't even been mentioned at all anywhere in the thread. Anyone who says gender roles aren't important or are non-existent in sexual situations is deluding themselves and should be summarily smacked. How should these be portrayed? How are they important to defining the characters? What ramifications do they have for the characters and the story?


EDIT; (4/7/07) Does the age of the characters having sex affect the appropriateness of the scene?

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Never, HAHAHAHAHA *hack*cough*wheeze*

Seriously, I think erotica is the bane of literature... but that's just my personal opinion. If other people want to read it, well, they can have a jolly good time with that. But I'm not opposed to sex in books, as long as it's not explicit. Sex is a fact of life and it's a way people show love for each other, among other things. I just don't see any reason for it to be written out in detail. But I've written about married characters and it would be weird if they never talked about sex or having babies or whatever.

Wealthy Genius

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I agree, unless you're writing a porn--I mean, steamy romance novel ninja or it's important to have it in there--it's unnessecary.

But, it's still safe to imply--or even say straight out--that two of your characters had sex, even if you're not going into detail....

Learned Gaian

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Just liek dialog, the sex scene has to be there to move the plot or expand characterization.

Or if you're writing a smut fic.

I usually leave sex out unless the scene has a lot of character-building romances or someone's voyeuring them and that comes into the plot a lot later and all hell breaks loose.

Unless I'm writing smut, in which case there's no plot (so far).

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Yami_no_Eyes
Just liek dialog, the sex scene has to be there to move the plot or expand characterization.

Or if you're writing a smut fic.

I usually leave sex out unless the scene has a lot of character-building romances or someone's voyeuring them and that comes into the plot a lot later and all hell breaks loose.

Unless I'm writing smut, in which case there's no plot (so far).


If it has not plot then isn't it just a diry peice of paper? Smut should always have plot!

Anyways I agree with what peopel have said. I really only asked becuase I've read books that started off clean then went into a sex scene with way to much detail and the plot wasn't moved at all by it.

Which brings up the next inevitable question, at what point does it go from moving the plot to X-rated material? I mean how far does it have to go before it is no longer acceptable?

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I'd limit it to every other page, if I were you.

Sex, like punctuation -- or any other aspect of literature for that matter -- should be in a story precisely as much and as often as necessary, and not the teensiest bit more. You don't intentionally use extra commas, or (Gods forbid) semi-colons. Don't use any more sex than necessary.

(And when you do it, please do not make me cry with stupid porn terms for body parts. I've read enough "throbbing member"s and "her sex"s to last me several lifetimes at least. crying )

Codger

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What the hell is it with people disliking erotica so much? stare Yes, most of it's bad, but the same holds true for every other genre of writing. Just dig around on fictionpress or in the original prose subforum if you want examples. Just because you're uncomfortable with sex as a subject does not automatically make it 'bad' or 'off limits' as a story element.

Like every other story element, if it adds or improves something important to the story, then go right ahead and include it. If it doesn't add or improve anything in the story, then don't bother putting it in, or excise it if it's already there.

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J. Dragonhater
Yami_no_Eyes
Just liek dialog, the sex scene has to be there to move the plot or expand characterization.

Or if you're writing a smut fic.

I usually leave sex out unless the scene has a lot of character-building romances or someone's voyeuring them and that comes into the plot a lot later and all hell breaks loose.

Unless I'm writing smut, in which case there's no plot (so far).


If it has not plot then isn't it just a diry peice of paper? Smut should always have plot!

Anyways I agree with what peopel have said. I really only asked becuase I've read books that started off clean then went into a sex scene with way to much detail and the plot wasn't moved at all by it.

Which brings up the next inevitable question, at what point does it go from moving the plot to X-rated material? I mean how far does it have to go before it is no longer acceptable?


I said it had no plot because I gave them an excuse to have sex and I never really resolved it (yet).

What's inappropriate is up to you. How far you go is up to you.

These answers are odd, considering when I asked for help writing erotica, peopel said not to be coy and just use fade outs whent he going got good.

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Yami_no_Eyes

I said it had no plot because I gave them an excuse to have sex and I never really resolved it (yet).

What's inappropriate is up to you. How far you go is up to you.

These answers are odd, considering when I asked for help writing erotica, peopel said not to be coy and just use fade outs whent he going got good.


If you need help just read some, like the Clan of the Cavebear series, it has plenty.

I must sound a bit like a pervert right now, all well.

Learned Gaian

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J. Dragonhater
Yami_no_Eyes

I said it had no plot because I gave them an excuse to have sex and I never really resolved it (yet).

What's inappropriate is up to you. How far you go is up to you.

These answers are odd, considering when I asked for help writing erotica, peopel said not to be coy and just use fade outs whent he going got good.


If you need help just read some, like the Clan of the Cavebear series, it has plenty.

I must sound a bit like a pervert right now, all well.


You're nothing compared to me. I posted a 'Help for writing erotica' thread that wnet down in flames.

Just don't write a pointless Mary Sue sex scene where there's no point and evne less of a 'happy ending.'

I think the main thing is how it connects to the rest of the story. You can't have an X-scene when you have a PG-13 story is my opinion.

You could probably get away with a mild R scene and a heavy PG-13 story.

But I'm in no way claiming to be an expert.

Codger

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Yami_no_Eyes
J. Dragonhater
Yami_no_Eyes
Just liek dialog, the sex scene has to be there to move the plot or expand characterization.

Or if you're writing a smut fic.

I usually leave sex out unless the scene has a lot of character-building romances or someone's voyeuring them and that comes into the plot a lot later and all hell breaks loose.

Unless I'm writing smut, in which case there's no plot (so far).


If it has not plot then isn't it just a diry peice of paper? Smut should always have plot!

Anyways I agree with what peopel have said. I really only asked becuase I've read books that started off clean then went into a sex scene with way to much detail and the plot wasn't moved at all by it.

Which brings up the next inevitable question, at what point does it go from moving the plot to X-rated material? I mean how far does it have to go before it is no longer acceptable?


I said it had no plot because I gave them an excuse to have sex and I never really resolved it (yet).

What's inappropriate is up to you. How far you go is up to you.

These answers are odd, considering when I asked for help writing erotica, peopel said not to be coy and just use fade outs whent he going got good.

Keep in mind that most of the people here are still immature and uncomfortable with full-on sex scenes. Or at least with talking about them, anyway. There have been a very few threads (meaning one) about erotica since I've been here that were any good, but that was mainly because most of the discussion was dominated by people who actually write it and are mature enough to not be embarrassed about it (such as myself).

I'd like to see that happen with this thread, since I'm interested myself in seeing what other people have to say about it that isn't the "EEWW!!!!! Explicit sex scene!!!!" sort of reaction, but so far we're not off to a good start. I think I may have to step in and guide it into more mature discussion quality if it keeps on like it is stare

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I think that it can be in pretty much any story as long as it's put in well. And even then, it's shouldn't be full on smut. More of a suggestion than anything. A kiss or two and the rest is left alone. You can say something like "they made love" and it get the point across without people thinking that you're a freak. The only time I think that it would be okay to actually describe the sex itself is if something very important came from it. For example, say one of your characters had amnesia and being touched in a certain way triggered a memory. Even then you shouldn’t go into too much detail. And another thing, if you do have it, keep it short. One time I was reading a book that was really good, but there was a whole chapter devoted to two people having sex. I wanted to skip it, but every time I convinced myself than after this page I was going to skip the rest one of the people said something that was really important to the story. It could have easily gone after the sex.

Also, I’ve heard that most readers say that a short or just suggested sex part is much more satisfying to the story. It doesn’t make the reader uncomfortable and a long as you get the level of how much the people love each other it’s fine left out. I’ve found this much better when books use it.

Learned Gaian

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I have a link to a Sex Scenes Writer's foruma dn a guild where there's a rather dull and uninteresting thread about this in case this one dies.

I'm not posting the link here and I'm not even sure if you care about the guild.

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What though consituties the differnece between a R rated and X rated scene though? I wrote a 3/4 parahgraph sex scene on Word and it told me it was only a 5.5 grade level and I know that measures content in addition to grammar and stlye.

Learned Gaian

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J. Dragonhater
What though consituties the differnece between a R rated and X rated scene though? I wrote a 3/4 parahgraph sex scene on Word and it told me it was only a 5.5 grade level and I know that measures content in addition to grammar and stlye.


R: Sex scene you find in general movies rated R due to sex

X: shots from inside the body or at huge gaping orfices. Body fluids are involved in X a lot.
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