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Angels and Demons: Do you write them?

Yes. And with religion factored in. 0.32539682539683 32.5% [ 164 ]
Yes, and with no religion. I will explain my rationale. 0.23214285714286 23.2% [ 117 ]
No, and I hate this stupid anti-religious trend. 0.18253968253968 18.3% [ 92 ]
No, and I think you're overreacting. 0.25992063492063 26.0% [ 131 ]
Total Votes:[ 504 ]
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Complete the sentence and discuss.

Mine would be "...like vampires who didn't mind sunlight, had no fangs or pale skin, and didn't feed off of blood/psychic energy/anything."

I mean, why call them vampires anymore? And why call them angels and demons? The core of angels and demons is the divine, whose nature varies depending on what "canon" you're using.

So here's my question: Why even call them angels and demons if they are just truly immortals with wings?

In those ever-popular stories about the one angel who finds heaven full of conformers/is cast downwards for a trivial, stupid offense, I'd expect for at least a slight touch upon the actual religious questions, those being why God is letting this happen, how God has become old and senile/whatever reason you're using now, and how the angelic government survives with such stupid rules- and how Satan's new followers are effecting the eternal war.

Similarly, why is it that all the demons I see don't do any actual corrupting? They're just badass and wear black and might ******** some girls if the author is feeling particularly racy. What ever happened to temptation and Jesus in the Desert?

And why isn't there actual faith involved? Are people scared to touch on the subject of religion? I know, I know, Christianity/Judaism/Islam aren't "cool" these days, but that's a really dumb reason.

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Well, the few times I've written or thought up an idea involving angels or demons they've been in a situation where they've been living on Earth and have been affected by human nature instead of the other way around. Or they've lived so long they don't really care about the whole "damning/saving" humanity thing anymore. I dunno, that's just the way they turn out in my little head. But I will say it's unusual to see demons tempting anyone these days. People seem to be making them more human lately, and with increasing cynicism in society angels in literature and other media have become less than divine.

My guess is that writers use the words angel and demon because they're easily recognized concepts in most societies around the world. It requires very little work to put that image in a person's mind, and then they pimp it out, either ignoring or bastardizing the cannon of these concepts.

If that made any sense to you you get a cookie. I felt like I lost myself somewhere in there.
Angels and demons without religion are the mindless fantasies of lazy teenagers.

It all goes with pop culture and lackadaisical research. Demons nowadays are more Constantine and less New Testament. And the bible for a teenager is like reading Shakespearian: it's usually not going to be done without some bitching and moaning about it, because, "It's too hard to read."

And, y'know, characterization is for squares.
I can't think of any other way to complete the sentence, sorry.

stressed

Anyway, I agree. If you have angels and demons, then there should be some religion involved. It doesn't make any sense without it. A lot of people seem to veer off the topic of religion because it causes so much. . .tension and such. I've written stories dealing with religion and such, and it's hard to do, especially when it seems that most people don't like that type of stuff. But I do it anyway, and I try to write it well.

Like I said before, you can't have angels and demons and the like without some religion and faith tangled in there somewhere.
demons exist in every religion. christianity just likes to think that they have a monopoly on hell. and the term demon is such a broad term; i think it just means non-human nowadays.

as for angels... i do not think anyone really understands the concept of angels. people like to believe in the hallmark version. but real angels, as in the bible, are like (and excuse me for using this example) the death dealers in underworld. they kill, execute, and massacre first borns. angels are no longer religious because everyone wants to think of them as fluffy (or over-sexed depending on what you are reading).

i have not written about either. i have written about vampires. i have tried to integrate the whole angel thing into it but it just becomes so complicated. you end up having to explain your version of things.
Veive you come up with the best topics whee Im too tired to come up with a logical comment right now, but I'll be back to type something meaningful 3nodding
Kamp
demons exist in every religion. christianity just likes to think that they have a monopoly on hell. and the term demon is such a broad term; i think it just means non-human nowadays.

as for angels... i do not think anyone really understands the concept of angels. people like to believe in the hallmark version. but real angels, as in the bible, are like (and excuse me for using this example) the death dealers in underworld. they kill, execute, and massacre first borns. angels are no longer religious because everyone wants to think of them as fluffy (or over-sexed depending on what you are reading).

i have not written about either. i have written about vampires. i have tried to integrate the whole angel thing into it but it just becomes so complicated. you end up having to explain your version of things.


Demons exist in every religion, but only in religion. Yes, Christianity is the religion that instantly comes to mind, much like a Victorian setting is what comes to mind when you mention "corsets"- because it is by far the most popular and known canon. If you establish something else, that's cool, but there should be religion involved.

Angels aren't only massacreing fiends. I find this view just as shallow as those "Hallmark" ones you show contempt for. They save people (yes, only the believers, but in an angels-and-demons story, one would expect to be dealing with a whole lot of belief) and give visions and serve as guiding forces, too.
Angels and Demons without Religion are nonconforming

It’s almost what you should expect in any type of fiction writing now-a-days because that’s just what has happened overtime. Angels have gone from the heavenly divine beings they were in the bible who delivered messages from God and who would occasionally heal people, to simply beings with white fluffy wings and possibly healing powers, if that.
Demons are essentially, as you stated, the “bad-a**” beings with horns and the occasional pronged tail who are usually no more corrupt than that 15-year-old "gangster" who lives down your block.

I'm not saying it's right, but Angels and Demons as divine immortal beings have lost all the divinity they once had. As humans, we try to make our characters as, well, human as is possible; even if the main protagonist to a story isn't.

And, I'm not saying I write characters that are angels or demons and they have religion; because I don't. When I have an angel character, they're NOT religious--they simply are an immortal being with the wings who are gracefully and believe they are a cut above the rest because they come from Heaven. Actually; when you put that in writing, they're more like Elves with wings... eek

And I think that's because of just the stereotype. When you read a character's description and it has wings, most people are automatically going to think either they're a bird-human hybrid; or they're an Angel.
And horns are the universal symbol of Demons when it comes to fiction (not to say that all demons have horns--but you know what I mean).

I'm standing somewhere in the middle on this debate...yes: if you have a character that is an Angel or Demon, they should be at least somewhat religious/corrupt so that it fits their original nature. BUT--if you think about it; it's not practical. Most people are not going to go out of their way to
A. Actually write about religion and it's conflicts
B. Dabble into some freekin' characterization that shows the character's inner stuggles.

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Actually, I think other religions have angels too. Or at least the people who translated the beings in the work I read as angels. I think it was the birth of the Buddha story I read for my literature class this last semester. I'll have to check.
Angels and demons without religion are like flat soda. I've occasionally used 'demons' in my writing, but they're usually personal demons of the characters who have taken human form. Most of the time, you can come up with a better word for your beautiful winged woman than 'angel' with not much trouble, if she's not connected to some sort of religion.

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Blitzkrieg_Bop


I'm standing somewhere in the middle on this debate...yes: if you have a character that is an Angel or Demon, they should be at least somewhat religious/corrupt so that it fits their original nature. BUT--if you think about it; it's not practical. Most people are not going to go out of their way to
A. Actually write about religion and it's conflicts
B. Dabble into some freekin' characterization that shows the character's inner stuggles.


Actually, man vs. God (or his servants, or the supernatural) is one of the main things that keep showing up again over and over in literature. It's just done very poorly as of late. And characterization is something every good writer does because without the inner struggle you don't have a much of a character regardless of what they are.
I honestly think it doesn't matter that much if religion is backing them in any way. Of course it is annoying to see anything with wings get the title angel or something with horns a demon, I think it should be heavenly creatures with good intentions should be angels, while, demons would be uneartly creatures with evil intentions.

Codger

Ace of Shadows
My guess is that writers use the words angel and demon because they're easily recognized concepts in most societies around the world. It requires very little work to put that image in a person's mind, and then they pimp it out, either ignoring or bastardizing the cannon of these concepts.

They're easily recognized concepts, aye, but they don't always mean the same thing from one culture to another. A kitsune or a kelpie, for example, are just mischevious spirits, and that they usually happen to kill the person upon whom they're playing their 'pranks' is simple coincidence. They're not demons, per se, in the biblical sense of the term, even though they're regarded that way.

Sven Svenson
Angels and demons without religion are the mindless fantasies of lazy teenagers.

It all goes with pop culture and lackadaisical research. Demons nowadays are more Constantine and less New Testament. And the bible for a teenager is like reading Shakespearian: it's usually not going to be done without some bitching and moaning about it, because, "It's too hard to read."

And, y'know, characterization is for squares.

I agree completely lol Like Veive said, they're not angels and demons if they lack the religious backdrop to make them that way. I've done plenty of research of my own, and that point is generally supported, as I mentioned above, and it's why, when I do write characters that could be considered angels or demons, I'm careful to make it understood that the term is only used as a convenient descriptor if there's no religious context to back it up.

Example: my most recent novel Technocia (which should be moving into third draft form fairly soon here). There are characters (antagonists and one 'protagonist' (for lack of a better term for her)) whose actions are very much in line with the biblical conception of what demons are (corrupting, immoral, domineering, and so on), and I've even gone so far as to play with that concept by calling them Sins (cliche when summarized like this, I know, but it fits in the story). However, because there is no religious backdrop for them, since they reside in the dream realms and there's much broader correlations (HP Lovecraft among them) for explaining what they are, I make it understood that they are not demons, even though their actions and intents cast them in that roll.

On the other extreme, my first NaNo attempt was a pseudo-historical fantasy that drew heavily on medieval Christian theology and its obsession with demons. I didn't get very far with it because of stupidity on my part (I installed Doom 3 and proceeded to aggravate my mild carpal tunnel whee ), but the angels and demons in that story would have clearly had reason for the labels because of the heavily religious context, and the three MCs were very much a part of the religion from which the angels and demons were drawn.
Huh.

Well.

I call them angels even if they are just immortals with wings because them watching over people is a key plot point and it just wouldn't work if they were stalkers or something. Plus I like halos, there are so many fun things to use them for, like coasters or frisbees.

Actual religious stuff/mention of God would be totally unneccessary. Or at the very least extra work for me. dramallama

Codger

I think it should also be noted that because the culture of most of the people here is a descendant/product of the Judeo-Christian theology, when we use the terms angel and demon, that is the first thing to come to mind. It's not, as has been pointed out, the only one, but it is the one with which we're most readily familiar, and so that's the canon we draw from when we talk about them.

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