An Open Letter to Gaia.

[Nomadder]

Bluecandescent

TheAntiHeroJD

Bluecandescent

AHA!!

Click the "Forums" link.

Scroll down to the bottom.

"Most users ever online was 77,655 on Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:31 pm."

/thread

Okay, not trying to push my luck or anything.. but does her really getting that number wrong totally take away the positive suggestions she gave on the thread.

I'm just saying. I mean.. I think people are ignoring the insightful post because of the number.

While I do agree that the number isn't everything, it's supposed to back up her claim of how many people were on in the past which leads to the feedback of the dwindling community. If so many people back then were bots, and even the total numbers were lower than claimed, then there technically isn't much change in the community in terms of actual activity level. Things were bad years ago with all the botters. The stats weren't as legit as they are now. Only memories can serve as "proof" of what we were like in the past, which means it's up to each individual user and their personal experiences to decide if we're bettor or worse as a community.

I understand.
I just feel maybe people are going too much on that and ignoring her other great ideas to improve it in a way.

[One Winged Asuka]

hibi-tea

It would help if you gave some more suggestions as to what you want to happen as opposed to "You should make be care about this stuff again Gaia". Like what kind of NPC interaction are we talking here? What kind of plots? Like the trial with Ian?

The comic for this site has always been a primary staple, so I'd rather they kept updating it, or at least continued on with some of the damn story-line.

That being said, they're coming back to their roots. With the new CEO is seems they've regrouped their efforts back into the site despite the lay-off of staff and are trying their best to cater to the whims of their users as they can.

Trying to say that Gaia has strayed from their roots because they have one Event in many that was based primarily in their re-imagined Towns space is kind of ridiculous. Gaia has always had and will continue to have forum-based events, that much I would put money on, but them doing a primarily flash based event to both test the system they've made based on requests of the users and to help identify bugs with heavy use is not them "straying from their roots".

Additionally, Gaia's popularity years ago was primarily from hype and bots. They haven't become "less popular", its a matter of the people who came because of hype have left because the novelty wore off. Also, the getting rid of bots. What you're left with is the people who actually enjoy this site as a whole and were not just razzle-dazzled by something new.

A lot of the things you address in your OP are things that are not relevant, or that users have specifically asked for. If you don't like those things, that's well and good, but it's not like Gaia decided on a random to do them. They're fulfilling user wishes with their projects and trying to build community by giving them some of the things they want.

I gave three distinct suggestions:

1. Run simple, forum based events, like the Dragon event.

2. Create atmosphere by having NPCs interact on the forums.

3. Make us care about what is going on in the world of Gaia by sustaining the story line all year, not just on holidays and events.

They have been pushing the focus of flash based events since Frontier Skies. It was not just this event, this has been ongoing, and I don't think it's ever been a positive thing for them. Whenever flash based gaming is a large part of an event, the most common complaint is glitches, and the overall tone of the event is soured as a result.

I never used those words, I called them to "return to their roots". They strayed long ago, this is nothing new.

Hype, yes. There was a time when Gaia was trying to sell themselves as the new teen hangout. It worked for a time, but any teen without a little bit of anime background got bored rather quickly. The botting situation was grossly overhyped. The truth is that those changes rolled out in 2008, but we saw an increase in overall users in 2009. If botting was the reason for the decline, we would have seen it back then, not three years later.

No one asked for the card game. I'm not saying for them to do away with flash, I'm asking for the addition of forum-based events and NPC interaction, and storylines that aren't manga-centric. I didn't point anything else out in my OP.

[JK]

November 7th of 2010 was almost three years ago. There might still be an argument for dwindling interest seeing as it's been over two years since we've topped our users online record. It also might just be because of the type of event that year.

I'm assuming the old record is the last day for the Halloween event. It was a Sunday and the end of DST and it's exactly one week after Halloween. It's probably safe to say that Halloween is one of Gaia's biggest events. If memory serves, 2010 was the ghost one which was a fun but time consuming game. There was a really awesome cloak item that was the final item so maybe that contributed. Since then, 2011 was werewolves (which I thought was very fun but I don't think was as popular) and last year it was dark elves vs vampires which I don't think required as much constant up-time from the user to participate.

So, it's hard to tell just based off of memory and numbers, but an argument could be made that Gaia has gone down in popularity in recent years. It also might just be a visibility thing. Maybe it's time for another site update? (I know how much you all LOVE site updates, but I honestly think they do the site good in the long run.)

[hibi-tea]

One Winged Asuka

I gave three distinct suggestions:

1. Run simple, forum based events, like the Dragon event.

2. Create atmosphere by having NPCs interact on the forums.

3. Make us care about what is going on in the world of Gaia by sustaining the story line all year, not just on holidays and events.

They have been pushing the focus of flash based events since Frontier Skies. It was not just this event, this has been ongoing, and I don't think it's ever been a positive thing for them. Whenever flash based gaming is a large part of an event, the most common complaint is glitches, and the overall tone of the event is soured as a result.

I never used those words, I called them to "return to their roots". They strayed long ago, this is nothing new.

Hype, yes. There was a time when Gaia was trying to sell themselves as the new teen hangout. It worked for a time, but any teen without a little bit of anime background got bored rather quickly. The botting situation was grossly overhyped. The truth is that those changes rolled out in 2008, but we saw an increase in overall users in 2009. If botting was the reason for the decline, we would have seen it back then, not three years later.

No one asked for the card game. I'm not saying for them to do away with flash, I'm asking for the addition of forum-based events and NPC interaction, and storylines that aren't manga-centric. I didn't point anything else out in my OP.

And I'm saying that that is pretty much akin to you saying "You should make me care about this stuff again". but if you want me to go into more detail in regards to that:

They are flimsy suggestions at best. Give suggestions of more substance rather than that, which I did ask you to elaborate on, but I'll give you a pass on completing and utterly ignoring that in favor of trying to sit there and go "But I did say things".

What kind fo NPC interaction are you talking about here? Saying "create atmosphere by having NPCs interact in forums" is meaningless as it doesn't give any context in which they could be used in. You can't just have them going around posting and being all like "Hey, what's up?" because there isn't the man-power for that kind of interaction to be meaningful. So how exactly are they to incorporate that? Going back to my one question, would forum based NPC interactions like the ones for the trial against Ian be the type of interaction you're hoping for?

Additionally, when you say "return to their roots" you're implying they strayed from their roots in the first place. So you don't have have to use those words, they're implied. Additionally, their "roots" would be a link-list, a really badly formulated personals section and a very limited selection of items. I don't want to go back to their roots. I want them to continue to perfect what they started when they introduced the Giving Tree, our story-lines, our games that tie back into the site.

In regards to the flash based Events, they are still minuscule in relation to the amount of forum-based Events and forum based events will always win out in the end because of their accessibility. Also, there being bugs for flash based events is no different than there being bugs for forum events. Both require coding, both are broken when large amounts of users access them for the first time. There is no difference between them aside from location.

And on the topic of user decline: It happens. People leave. They grow out of things. But after the initial decrease because of the bots and the general disinterest, the decline has not been rapid and it's been relatively steady over the years. Many of us started this site in our teens, and now we're in our twenties with jobs, and school and so we don't quite have the time or dedication to that.

And you'd be wrong about the card game. It was asked for. Gaia asked their users if they'd be interested in that quite some time ago, people responded favorably to the idea and so they partnered up with someone and went to Kickstarter with the idea so that people who wanted this card-game would back it instead of taking money from the user's pockets who didn't.

[Fractale]

you have no idea how long I've been pleading for Gaia to get back in touch with its roots with plot, events, NPC backstory creation, ect are concerned. I hate that there's so much focus on the CS, to the point where Gaia just doesn't give a s**t about their roots any more.

[One Winged Asuka]

hibi-tea

One Winged Asuka

I gave three distinct suggestions:

1. Run simple, forum based events, like the Dragon event.

2. Create atmosphere by having NPCs interact on the forums.

3. Make us care about what is going on in the world of Gaia by sustaining the story line all year, not just on holidays and events.

They have been pushing the focus of flash based events since Frontier Skies. It was not just this event, this has been ongoing, and I don't think it's ever been a positive thing for them. Whenever flash based gaming is a large part of an event, the most common complaint is glitches, and the overall tone of the event is soured as a result.

I never used those words, I called them to "return to their roots". They strayed long ago, this is nothing new.

Hype, yes. There was a time when Gaia was trying to sell themselves as the new teen hangout. It worked for a time, but any teen without a little bit of anime background got bored rather quickly. The botting situation was grossly overhyped. The truth is that those changes rolled out in 2008, but we saw an increase in overall users in 2009. If botting was the reason for the decline, we would have seen it back then, not three years later.

No one asked for the card game. I'm not saying for them to do away with flash, I'm asking for the addition of forum-based events and NPC interaction, and storylines that aren't manga-centric. I didn't point anything else out in my OP.

And I'm saying that that is pretty much akin to you saying "You should make me care about this stuff again". but if you want me to go into more detail in regards to that:

They are flimsy suggestions at best. Give suggestions of more substance rather than that, which I did ask you to elaborate on, but I'll give you a pass on completing and utterly ignoring that in favor of trying to sit there and go "But I did say things".

What kind fo NPC interaction are you talking about here? Saying "create atmosphere by having NPCs interact in forums" is meaningless as it doesn't give any context in which they could be used in. You can't just have them going around posting and being all like "Hey, what's up?" because there isn't the man-power for that kind of interaction to be meaningful. So how exactly are they to incorporate that? Going back to my one question, would forum based NPC interactions like the ones for the trial against Ian be the type of interaction you're hoping for?

Additionally, when you say "return to their roots" you're implying they strayed from their roots in the first place. So you don't have have to use those words, they're implied. Additionally, their "roots" would be a link-list, a really badly formulated personals section and a very limited selection of items. I don't want to go back to their roots. I want them to continue to perfect what they started when they introduced the Giving Tree, our story-lines, our games that tie back into the site.

In regards to the flash based Events, they are still minuscule in relation to the amount of forum-based Events and forum based events will always win out in the end because of their accessibility. Also, there being bugs for flash based events is no different than there being bugs for forum events. Both require coding, both are broken when large amounts of users access them for the first time. There is no difference between them aside from location.

And on the topic of user decline: It happens. People leave. They grow out of things. But after the initial decrease because of the bots and the general disinterest, the decline has not been rapid and it's been relatively steady over the years. Many of us started this site in our teens, and now we're in our twenties with jobs, and school and so we don't quite have the time or dedication to that.

And you'd be wrong about the card game. It was asked for. Gaia asked their users if they'd be interested in that quite some time ago, people responded favorably to the idea and so they partnered up with someone and went to Kickstarter with the idea so that people who wanted this card-game would back it instead of taking money from the user's pockets who didn't.

I value you as a user and your right to an opinion, but you are far too argumentative for me to continue trying to explain myself. I made it as clear as possible in the OP what I'm asking for, if I need to tell Gaia how to make interesting storylines by using their own NPCs in their own forum, the site is farther gone than I thought.

You continue to imply that I want Gaia to revert to when it was Go-Gaia. I never said or implied this. Gaia's "roots" are that of an "anime roleplaying community". Roleplaying is almost entirely forum and text based. What I'm trying to express is that you don't need all the bells and whistles to make a story happen.

They've been relying too heavily on flash, manga, and other 'bells and whistles' to drum up interest, and it hasn't worked.

Gaia needs more community. A good, ongoing storyline would give people a reason to log in everyday, and would give people something to talk about. Talk generates interest, interest generates new users.

That's all I said, that's all I'm saying, and that's all I'll say to you from here on.

[BOMB4Y]

One Winged Asuka

I think you've just lost your popularity.

They have. Problem is, nobody knows for sure how to get it back, or restore it to its former glory of 500K users online at a time. crying

Not to say that your ideas aren't valid, of course. It's just... a little hard to attract newer users using a "world" technique... unless of course, it's the WoW technique. I like forum-based events, personally. It'd be good to have them back, but we have to start somewhere to build the extra desire for it first...

Neutral anime fan standpoint here: I don't find the Gaian NPCs all that interesting at first glance. The problem with small time original characters is that, just like obscure movies, they don't draw in the crowd. They're cool, but when you look at them, you go, "oooookay, cool. What's next? yum_puddi " We can make events around them, but... where's the draw? eek

Still, there's a bit of hope. Hype begets hype. Hype may come from advertising something. There's a very subtle difference between seeing something once and asking, "what is this?" and seeing something many, many times and going, "wow, that seems popular. I totally gotta check it out."

I think scoping the market and doing a biiiiit of a rebrand might help, if only a little. We were anime, then teen, then... hangout site. Can't we have themes recurring over what's popular at the moment to draw in the crowd, get them to like the forum/site features and change the theme as time goes by? sweatdrop I know it's crazy, but the way I see it, riding the wave may seem a very safe and workable choice.

Putting ads outside Gaia that say, "hey, MLP is now on Gaia, come join us a dress up as your favorite pony now" might attract new users, for example. Or, featuring fantasy avatars in media, and touting it as a dress up site where you can live your dreams in a convention where people like dressing up, perhaps?

Man I'm so all over the place. sweatdrop I know promoting like crazy earned McDonald's its title of giant in its time, I think it may be a good idea to promote it like crazy too, even outside the internet, with partners. I don't know.

I like your idea of making it more forum based again, and having forum events, and an updated story line, but I can't help thinking that hype right now is very important, even if it may not be entirely site or plot updated at the moment...

[Nights-Rune]

I agree with this, however I think you missed a few reasons...

Now this may just be something I have noticed and it goes like this: a conversation between me and a new potential member is happening, I will be explaining stuff about Gaia, then they will ask about something else like garage or alchemy.... I will have to honestly say that my garage is broken with no hope of fixing it and that alchemy looks to be the same... This leads to that inevitable awkward moment of the "you actually give the site money when half its stuff is broken and they refuse to repair it? Do you have brain-damage?"

This happens 9/10 times I try to convince someone to join... In this day and age people don't want to be on a site littered with broken features and abandoned projects, they just don't.

I don't think Gaia will get any new members until they buck up their ideas and fix stuff that is broken, work on features they have neglected and also cover all of your points as well OP.

[White Island]

People can downvote this thread all they want but there is a lot of truth in the first post.

[Sweetie Panini]

gaia is sinking fast and ima bout to jump ship
i hate the cash shop sht
i hate the events
i hate most of the mods (lookin at u reapersun)
i hate the community
i even hate waffles

[npulse]

One Winged Asuka

npulse

Gaia has never had that many uses online at once...and when they did have a lot of users online it was later found out that many of the numbers was from bots and not legit users.

Anyways, Gaia is already trying to get back to it roots. But these things take time. They are communicating with us more, they are making more active events, they are running more community events, ect.

Off topic: I'm going to MetroCon this year emotion_kirakira

I am also going to Metrocon this year. Sadly, Gaia will not be attending. This made me quite sad, as they've been there every other year I've gone, up til now sad ..

I want that achievement gonk the last time they were at a con I attended they didn't have those emo

[Sakura Latte]

420blaqswag

gaia is sinking fast and ima bout to jump ship
i hate the cash shop sht
i hate the events
i hate most of the mods (lookin at u reapersun)
i hate the community
i even hate waffles

um reapersun is an artist

[panoptes]

Nights-Rune

I agree with this, however I think you missed a few reasons...

Now this may just be something I have noticed and it goes like this: a conversation between me and a new potential member is happening, I will be explaining stuff about Gaia, then they will ask about something else like garage or alchemy.... I will have to honestly say that my garage is broken with no hope of fixing it and that alchemy looks to be the same... This leads to that inevitable awkward moment of the "you actually give the site money when half its stuff is broken and they refuse to repair it? Do you have brain-damage?"

This happens 9/10 times I try to convince someone to join... In this day and age people don't want to be on a site littered with broken features and abandoned projects, they just don't.

I don't think Gaia will get any new members until they buck up their ideas and fix stuff that is broken, work on features they have neglected and also cover all of your points as well OP.

i have to agree with this. either the features should be fixed or taken down, so they dont tease users with promises of functionality where there is none. maybe those features can be taken out until they are fixed? if theyre going to sit on the shelf for this long

and as much as it pains me to say this
something has to be done about zomg. its really hard to play it and have characters going, "oh so and so is in durem/aekea/inaccessible place" and then learning that you are NEVER going to get to explore that place in the game. i know updates wont happen, and no one wants it to leave because its a fun way to make gold (well, in my opinion), but an unfinished plot is... unprofessional

[Extra Sharp Cheddar]

TheAntiHeroJD

I understand.
I just feel maybe people are going too much on that and ignoring her other great ideas to improve it in a way.

What ideas? confused She gave vague generalities. Which, I mean, no idea without merit, but she really didn't... give any specifics.

Sorry you think all the regs here are hardasses, most of us are actually pretty nice. But sometimes, when people don't follow the sticky

Quote:

Provide constructive feedback.
Simply posting that you dislike/like something doesn't help the staff to plan future projects. Let them know what you didn't like, and try to offer suggestions to help shape projects. Alternatively, let them know what you like so that they can try to reproduce it.
Good example: "Please add option X to feature Z"
Bad example: "Feature Z is hard to work with"

we can get a little cranky. Saying "I don't like thing! You need to do something else! emotion_donotwant " is not constructive.
Furthermore, her whole argument was based around the fact that since numbers are dwindling the site is dying. Others pointed out that it is simply not true, and the fact that a great deal of bots have been taken care of, strengthening the community as a whole. We are allowed to disagree and inform users of things they might not be aware of. You're reading malice into our tone, simply because we are disagreeing, and that just isn't fair.

You're asking us not to be so quick to judge, and yet that's exactly what you've done here. I'm sorry to break it to you but SF is not a place for belly rubs and cupcakes. That doesn't make us bad people. We want Gaia to be better, but because of constructive ideas from the community, not tired flat complaints.

Hope this helps.