Is Islam a violent/ lost/ currupted religion.

do polls encourage you to read a thread

yes	50.5%	[ 432 ]
no	49.5%	[ 424 ]
Total Votes:			[ 856 ]

[CoolCosmic]

Elf Lord Chiewn

That's a value judgment. Note that people may live in the U.S. and practice whatever they choose. The actions of some =/= the underpinnings of religion. Dying for renouncing Christianity could be brought up as well.

Thats true. I was only referring to Swords' logic.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

CoolCosmic

Elf Lord Chiewn

That is untrue. If they pretended to be Muslim, would they not have been committing apostasy or blasphemy, according to Christianity? They're in bad standing regardless of what they honestly believed.

WHAT??? Cant people honestly change their minds??? I was an athiest and became a sincere christian for many years. I really believed in Jesus, Ive had the religious experience. And then I learned the flaws of the bible, and apostasized. Now by your logic I was only pretending to be a Christian for all those years???

Man, if they were pretending to be muslims, for whatever reason...there would have been no greater reason to pretend again to accept islam than the in-your-face threat of losing their heads!

oh man oh man oh man. brother. i cant believe I heard that from you. suprise surprise. eek

I must have misunderstood. I thought we were under the assumption that they were pretending to be one of the two.

It is possible that they simply changed their beliefs. It does seem unusual that they would publicly announce it, however, knowing the penalty.

[CoolCosmic]

Elf Lord Chiewn

It does seem unusual that they would publicly announce it, however, knowing the penalty.

There are people that are so strong in their convictions that they would brave anything...becoming martyrs. Especially if it concerns spiritual matters....

"But there was AN OLD MAN among them, a Christian called al-Rumahis b. Mansur, who said, "By God, the only error I have made since attaining reason was abandoning my religion, the religion of truth, for yours, THE RELIGION OF WICKEDNESS. No by God, I will not leave my religion and I will not accept yours so long as I live." Ma‘qil brought him forward AND CUT OFF HIS HEAD.

Im sure this guy was ready to meet Jesus in heaven. Death was a small price to pay.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

CoolCosmic

I'll tell you who the hypocrites are, its those Christians who accepted Islam at the point of the sword.

What about the Jews who were forced to practice Christianity in order to survive?

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

CoolCosmic

Elf Lord Chiewn

It does seem unusual that they would publicly announce it, however, knowing the penalty.

There are people that are so strong in their convictions that they would brave anything...becoming martyrs. Especially if it concerns spiritual matters....

"But there was AN OLD MAN among them, a Christian called al-Rumahis b. Mansur, who said, "By God, the only error I have made since attaining reason was abandoning my religion, the religion of truth, for yours, THE RELIGION OF WICKEDNESS. No by God, I will not leave my religion and I will not accept yours so long as I live." Ma‘qil brought him forward AND CUT OFF HIS HEAD.

Im sure this guy was ready to meet Jesus in heaven. Death was a small price to pay.

That's a little different. He openly denounced Islam and explained himself.

He was also old and sassy. =P

[[ Absolut Terror ]]

Then what are so many ex-Christians talking about when they say Islam is a beautiful religion, and that it makes so much sense compared to their previous religion? And all this at the expense of their family's love [which is the usual case].

[CoolCosmic]

Elf Lord Chiewn

CoolCosmic

I'll tell you who the hypocrites are, its those Christians who accepted Islam at the point of the sword.

What about the Jews who were forced to practice Christianity in order to survive?

of course of course! i was merely referring to that quote from al-Tabari.

[CoolCosmic]

[ Absolut Terror ]

Then what are so many ex-Christians talking about when they say Islam is a beautiful religion, and that it makes so much sense compared to their previous religion? And all this at the expense of their family's love [which is the usual case].

IMO, converts (to any religion, particularly the fresh ones) are the most deluded people on earth.

That probably explains why there is a higher (or growing) ratio of converts among islamist terrorists compared to the ratio of converts in the whole muslim world.

(another can of worms Im opening up! lol)

[[ Absolut Terror ]]

I hope you know that "terrorists" constitute under 5% of the population of the Muslim world.

And anyway, I was talking specifically about the converts I've seen; people in the US who convert to the true Islam, not what terrorists have tainted it into.

[CoolCosmic]

[ Absolut Terror ]

And anyway, I was talking specifically about the converts I've seen; people in the US who convert to the true Islam, not what terrorists have tainted it into.

[ Absolut Terror ]

Then what are so many ex-Christians talking about when they say Islam is a beautiful religion, and that it makes so much sense compared to their previous religion? And all this at the expense of their family's love [which is the usual case].

Come to think of it, the simplest explanation is that these people found something better in Islam, that’s why they converted. Therefore it wont be any surprise why they speak well of it.

On the contrary I want you to think about the opposite circumstance…those people who give up islam…AT THE EXPENSE of being completely DISOWNED by their muslim families and friends, AT THE EXPENSE of being heavily persecuted by muslim communities, and those living in mulim lands - AT THE EXPENSE of being killed as an apostate.

[Bloody_Mel]

[ Absolut Terror ]

I hope you know that "terrorists" constitute under 5% of the population of the Muslim world.

And anyway, I was talking specifically about the converts I've seen; people in the US who convert to the true Islam, not what terrorists have tainted it into.

AMEN!!! biggrin

[[ Absolut Terror ]]

CoolCosmic

[ Absolut Terror ]

And anyway, I was talking specifically about the converts I've seen; people in the US who convert to the true Islam, not what terrorists have tainted it into.

[ Absolut Terror ]

Then what are so many ex-Christians talking about when they say Islam is a beautiful religion, and that it makes so much sense compared to their previous religion? And all this at the expense of their family's love [which is the usual case].

Come to think of it, the simplest explanation is that these people found something better in Islam, that’s why they converted. Therefore it wont be any surprise why they speak well of it.

On the contrary I want you to think about the opposite circumstance…those people who give up islam…AT THE EXPENSE of being completely DISOWNED by their muslim families and friends, AT THE EXPENSE of being heavily persecuted by muslim communities, and those living in mulim lands - AT THE EXPENSE of being killed as an apostate.

Well the opposite situation gets them the same things, except maybe the loss of life, which may I remind you, is not supposed to take place unless they not only just revert from Islam, but commit an offensive TREASON against it.

[CoolCosmic]

[ Absolut Terror ]

except maybe the loss of life, which may I remind you, is not supposed to take place unless they not only just revert from Islam, but commit an offensive TREASON against it.

The problem is many muslims see the act of apostasy as an offensive treason itself.

[[ Absolut Terror ]]

I agree.
But those are the uneducated Muslims.

Therefore, those of us who are educated [like me and Brammimond ... but I don't mean to sound arrogant at all] have a responsibility unto those who aren't.
No offense, but people like you who criticize Islam disctract us from that afore mentioned duty, which is more important, thus narrowing the chance to fix the very problems you're pointing out.

I'm sorry if this post sounds like I'm talking down to anyone; that was not my intent.

[Brammimond]

CoolCosmic

[ Absolut Terror ]

except maybe the loss of life, which may I remind you, is not supposed to take place unless they not only just revert from Islam, but commit an offensive TREASON against it.

The problem is many muslims see the act of apostasy as an offensive treason itself.

Many muslims are uneducated as aboslute pointed out,and those head of islamic shariah twisted it so that if some one converts and they apostatsize they would be excusted under the "islamic" system,but really the old shariah is if some one betrays in jihad as many hyppocrites did if they are still alive and are captured they are excuted under treason,is this wrong?