Darkslider
(?)Community Member
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- Posted: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:19:11 +0000
Pyropyre
Darkslider
Pyropyre, there are several fundamental problems with you assertations in the above post.
1. You completely ignore Joseph Smith and his statements about the Church being "The Only True Church Upon The Face of The Earth!"
2. You include a quote from Brigham Young (which I might add, you have taken out of contex. . . remember the fuss you pulled when I used an elipsis in a quote, Bad TBM).
3. You completely ignored other statements by Brigham Young about the Church being the only truth in the universe and if you don't believe it, you will be damned for eternity.
4. Yes, that quote from B. H. Roberts does at first glance seem to support your statement, but then one has to look at things in complete CONTEXT!
a. B. H. Roberts was not a high ranking member of the Church leadership, he was a member of the 70's. As such, what he says cannot be taken as scripture.
b. B. H. Roberts did not believe the Book of Mormon to be completely true, apparently for a significant portion of his time in the 70's.
c. Given the above statement, one might just wonder why you are holding up this "doubting Thomas" to back your stance.
To be perfectly frank with you, I find you to be quite despicible for quoting B. H. Roberts. If you want to go into that statement further. . . I would love to.
1. You completely ignore Joseph Smith and his statements about the Church being "The Only True Church Upon The Face of The Earth!"
2. You include a quote from Brigham Young (which I might add, you have taken out of contex. . . remember the fuss you pulled when I used an elipsis in a quote, Bad TBM).
3. You completely ignored other statements by Brigham Young about the Church being the only truth in the universe and if you don't believe it, you will be damned for eternity.
4. Yes, that quote from B. H. Roberts does at first glance seem to support your statement, but then one has to look at things in complete CONTEXT!
a. B. H. Roberts was not a high ranking member of the Church leadership, he was a member of the 70's. As such, what he says cannot be taken as scripture.
b. B. H. Roberts did not believe the Book of Mormon to be completely true, apparently for a significant portion of his time in the 70's.
c. Given the above statement, one might just wonder why you are holding up this "doubting Thomas" to back your stance.
To be perfectly frank with you, I find you to be quite despicible for quoting B. H. Roberts. If you want to go into that statement further. . . I would love to.
Concerning B. H. Roberts, my buddies at the FAIR boards were just having this discussion and they say B. H. Roberts didn't lose his testimony. Why I'd quote "doubting Thomas", is because it came out of The Seventy's course in Theology, first year. And there are many quotes by Apostles that more or less said the same thing he did.
Apostle Orson F. Whitney: "/After quoting several verses from Alma 29.1-9 continues: These verses/ tell one that Providence is over all, and that he holds the nations in the hollow of his hand; that he is using not only his covenant people, but other peoples as well, to consummate a work..../God/ is using men as his instruments. Nor is he limited in the choice of instruments to his own people....Outside the pale of their /prophetic, priesthood/ activities other good and great men, not bearing the Priesthood but possessing profundity of thought, great wisdom, and a desire to uplift their fellows, have been sent by the Almighty into many nations, to give them, not the fulness of the gospel, but that portion of truth that they were able to receive and wisely use. Such men as Confucius, Zoroaster, Buddha, Socrates and Plato. ...They were servants of the Lord in a lesser sense, and were sent to those pagan or heathen nations to give them the measure of truth that a wise Providence had allotted to them." Orson F. Whitney, Conference Report 91 (April 1921): 32-3.
And Apostle George Q. Cannon, said simular things.
If you think that Brigham Young quote was taken out of context then I have many others. He rejected out of hand the idea that his church monopolized good intentions or righteousness. At times, he praised the virtues of Jews, Protestants, and Catholics.
Have I gotten this Brigham quote out of context too? "With your mind's eye look at the millions of them in all nations who are doing according to the best knowledge they possess. What! the Roman Catholics? Yes and then every one of her daughters down to the latest Protestant Church that has been orgainzed. They are all doing just as well as they can, and living according to the best light they have...What will be their state hereafter? Every faithful Methodist that has lived up to and faithfully fulfilled the requirements of his religion, according to the best light he had, doing good to all and evil to none, injuring no person upon the earth, honouring his God as far as he knew, will have as great a heaven as he ever anticipated in the flesh, and far greater. Every Presbyterian, every Quaker, and every Baptist, and every Roman Catholic member - every reformer, of whatever class or grade, that lives according to the best light they have, and never have an opportunity of receiving a greater light than the one in their possession, will have and enjoy all they live for."
So why did Brigham convert to Mormonism then? Because Brigham felt that Mormonism embraced all truth, both in heaven and on earth, and that the truth belonged to the eternal Gospel of the Son Jesus Christ for whom we are to worship, love, and exemplify.
And yet, your only seen purpose for posting here is to decry me and my kind (read Kiritsu, Keene, Chainmailman, ect.) when all we are saying is the exact same ******** thing.
Yeah, the Church does contain some truth. It has the potential to hold all truth. . . but the organization (not the heirarchy. . .the actual group) is not true.