Dumbledore's Man: An Albus Dumbledore/Harry Potter Fanthread

[artamuss]

oii just because im really not a fan doesn mean i dont think the thread was set up well redface

[Parashta]

artamuss

(Oh Man I hope i dont get black listed >.< wink

In all honestly Im really not a fan of this ship (its really funny because The main reason i dont care for this ship is one of the question up for discussion (in the discussion area XD)).

"How do feel Dumbledore's manipulation affected his relationship with Harry"

-This manipulation factor is basically why i find this ship so shady. Not because young people (in general) are easily persuaded but for the fact that Dumbledore basically used Potter as a tool or device to destory Voldemort. I think Snape Makes a good point (in the Prince's Tale) that Dumbledore has been "raising [Harry] like a pig for slaughter (DH.687)" fatting him up, waiting till the right moment to die. Basically Dumbledore rigged the deck, the only cards Harry recieved were the ones Dumbledore let him, leaving Harry little choices but to make the moves Dumbledore wanted him too (and what i find worse is that this manipulation goes unreconized by Harry making it feel like it was his own decision).

Its not my goal to sink this ship (or even to question its cannon aspects) but for me it's really hard to accept because I myself (as a reader) feel betrayed by this manipulation (or maybe i just dont like the idea of Dumbledore humanized). With Dumbledore controling the moves its hard to see where (or if) a partnership ever existed between the two, which i think is a key element in a successful relationship.


Now that ive bored y'all with my borning rant, i would like to compliment the creators on how well they set up their thread. I especially enjoyed their facts, statements (and quotes) supporting their ship. (you guys are totally getting tha thumbs up).

<3

Hey, thanks. <3 It's nice to see someone so polite -- you don't usually see that in shipping threads anymore. I really appreciate it. ^^ And you won't be blacklisted for stating your opinion, sweetie.

Trust me, when I first read Deathly Hallows, I hated Dumbledore so much I wouldn't so much as let my girlfriend say his name. I thought he was a hypocrite, a b*****d, and a self-satisfying son of a b***h who didn't deserve anyone's trust. I was bitter, I confess, and the very thought of Dumbledore deserving anything but a one way ticketo to hell seemed foolish to me.

But then I reread King's Cross. Read through Dumbledore's tears, his confessions.. and Harry's support. Several times we see Harry defending Dumbledore's actions:

"Master of death, Harry, master of Death! Was I better, ultimately, than Voldemort?"
"Of course you were," said Harry. "Of course - how can you ask that? You never killed if you could avoid it!"
"True, true," said Dumbledore, and he was like a child seeking reassurance. "Yet I too sought a way to conquer death, Harry."
"Not the way he did," said Harry. After all his anger at Dumbledore, how odd it was to sit here, beneath the high, vaulted ceiling, and defend Dumbledore from himself.
- Deathly Hallows, 713

"I, meanwhile, was offered the post of Minister of Magic, not once, but several times. Naturally, I refused. I had learned that I was not to be trusted with power."
"But you'd have been better, much better, than Fudge of Scrimgeour!" burst out Harry.
- Deathly Hallows, 717

"I was safer at Hogwarts. I think I was a good teacher -"
"You were the best -"
"- You are very kind, Harry."
- Deathly Hallows, 718

These quotes, I think, prove that Harry was not so bitter towards Dumbledore as he had initially wanted to be. He loved Dumbledore too much (platonic or romantic), and put far too much faith into him to throw away his admiration so quickly. This, I think, shows that Harry also grew up -- and, as Dumbledore said, was more of a man than him.. and was willing to forgive because now he understood.

Dumbledore patted Harry's hand, and Harry looked up at the old man and smiled; he couldn't help himself. How could he remain angry with Dumbledore now?
"Why did you have to make it so difficult?"
"...I was afraid that your hot head might dominate your good heart. I was scared that, if presented outright with the facts about those tempting objects, you might seize the Hallows as I did, at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons."
- Deathly Hallows, 720

They were speaking of the Hallows there, but I think this applies to Dumbledore's plans as a whole. Harry would not have been able to survive, to defeat Voldemort, if he hadn't been slowly led into things as Dumbledore planned. Take OOTP, for example -- Harry was in fits of rage and stubborn-ness most of the time, and at that point just wasn't ready to live up to his destiny. He hadn't learned enough. And we see in the books that Harry is not the smartest person in the world -- he needs to learn things on his own, and slowly, or the lesson doesn't sink in. Dumbledore knew this.

However, I don't think Harry was really a pig raised for slaughter. I think Dumbledore did all he could to make sure Harry survived -- he made it very clear in OOTP that he loved Harry above all else, even the plan:

"I cared more for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the plan failed. In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act.
"Is there a defense? I defy anyone who has watched you as I have – and I watched you more closely than you could have imagined – not to want to save you more pain than you had already suffered. What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy? I never dreamed that I would have such a person on my hands?"
- Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, page 839

Wow. @@ I use that quote a lot. X3

@Kaethar and Frothy Crema: Thanks. <3

[SilverZephyr]

Adults-with-teenagers pairings are hard for me to like, so this pairing is hard for me to like x2...but their platonic mentorship/partnership is just the most adorable thing ever, in HBP and the King's Cross chapter particularly. Tears welling up in Dumbledore's eyes when Harry tells him he told Scrimgeour he was "Dumbledore's man through and through?" ADORABLE <3

But anyway, what prevents me from liking the pairing isn't really me thinking that Dumbledore was too manipulative, because I think in the end, he really did still care about Harry and Harry wasn't hurt enough that he wouldn't still defend Dumbledore. I think it was still a healthy relationship in several ways. I just...prefer it not to be romantic because it squicks me, but their dynamic is still adorable to me. So I just dropped in to say that this thread is set up wonderfully and I love all of the quotes/art chosen for the front page 3nodding

[Beelzebubs Badger]

This is an amazing thread. It's all so pretty. <3

Now, personally I ship Ablus/Gellert (And Albus/Elphias)

But you have to admit, Albus/Harry has something going for it. A VERY close connection. Even after Harry finds out that Albus intended him to die at Voldemort's hand he STILL defends him.

Really, the only issue that keeps me from running off and writing fanfiction is Albus being 99 years older than Harry. While age normally doesn't bother me, 99 is a bit of a hurdle in my mind.

[Auror Harry James Potter]

[Well, if you read the thread carefully, this is a thread for their relationship, period end of statement, no matter how you choose to see it. We, the thread creators, happen to see it at a more romantic angle is all.]

[Luamervara]

Huh...I never really thought about this pairing (even though it's crossed my path a few times..) Though you've now perked my interest.

>>;

[artamuss]

-Nazi of Grammar you arguments are so thorough and well thought out, tis amamzing.

Hehe. I reread King's cross before i went to sleep lastnight too and i cant deny, there is alot of love and emotion going on. Maybe im still just where you are after you read DH. I mean there was no guarantee that everything would be alright, and Dumbledore did admit it was a "quess" (even though he did go on to say that his quesses have been rather correct lately).

[Theodore Remus Lupin]

[To use one of the discussion topics, I'm going to say that they could have had a relationships while Harry was in school during Harry's sixth year. I do sort of feel that it was more build up toward a relationship.]

[Lepusia]

Actually I have seen quite a few people pair these two together and although I don't ship, I can understand it (it's like Hermione/Harry, I don't ship it but I can understand).

For the reason Dumbledore is too old, my primary ship is Hermione/Remus so I know the feeling loool It's like "Broaden your minds" loool

[Harpsiccord]

Lepusia, which of your threads was banned to the Chatterbox? *Frowns*

[Lepusia]

Harpsiccord

Lepusia, which of your threads was banned to the Chatterbox? *Frowns*

The one that actually had links to all the Dumbledore is gay threads. I was trying to help the mods, guess they didn't like it loool

[Reg Black]

Lepusia

Harpsiccord

Lepusia, which of your threads was banned to the Chatterbox? *Frowns*

The one that actually had links to all the Dumbledore is gay threads. I was trying to help the mods, guess they didn't like it loool

[*Borrows girlfriend's account* It didn't belong here. It was just contributing to the spam.

Off topic, Harp. You coulda asked her that through PMs. sweatdrop We chat enough in all my other threads, please don't do it here.

@Ty: I admit my guilty pleasure storyline is something happening at the end of fifth year. Maybe just a kiss -- then Dumbledore backing away and (despite Harry's anger over it) leaving it until he's 17. ]

[Theodore Remus Lupin]

[My guilty pleasure storyline is...very similar actually.]

[Parashta]

Theodore Remus Lupin

[My guilty pleasure storyline is...very similar actually.]

Do tell. Those who don't like it in that light can skim over it, I'm sure. <3 =P

[Theodore Remus Lupin]

[Don't like, don't read!

I always sort of saw it as something that the both of them knew was there, but they just didn't bother to address it because it just didn't matter in light of everything else that was happening during Harry's sixth year. I always thought it came to a head near the end of his sixth year though before they went to the cave and then there was sexing. And then you know the cave and stuff. v.v

Of course, in my...AU to half a degree, there's William too. XD]