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Dan D Lie N
so my only input here is that i really like what you did with combining the event with alchemy.

it gets the users more involved and made you WANT to hang around, WANT to participate in the event, and WANT to find all the pieces for the item. which in reality is what your trying to achieve with this system. its not just a mind numbing,one click here is your item, but also not terribly hard.

so thank you, and i really hope to see this feature in more and more events.





thank you to everone who had tipped me

Questionable Conversationalist

The Yami Bakura
haligonian
The Yami Bakura
Well, according to what the devs have said so far, I now understand the aurora kitten star.

Apparently......
Somehow.....

Kittens will be re released, to a point where they become common enough to where people will actually be able to make the aurora kitten star.

wat

rofl

Oh god, if only that were true.

I will not turn down proof of this though.
User Image

Technically it is true.
There are formula's out for all the kittens already.
And there is always the chance for some of the kittens to be in the rigs again.
So basically, they could just started releasing three kittens in each rig. Same rarity, more chances to get one.
They become higher in supply this way.
I think I now understand what they mean by "we can always just re release items when they get scarce"
Mmk.
As long as the formulas aren't too ridiculous I think we ought to be fine.

I hope. gonk
A lot of people want kitten stars (I still want Jet.)

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haligonian
The Yami Bakura
haligonian
The Yami Bakura
Well, according to what the devs have said so far, I now understand the aurora kitten star.

Apparently......
Somehow.....

Kittens will be re released, to a point where they become common enough to where people will actually be able to make the aurora kitten star.

wat

rofl

Oh god, if only that were true.

I will not turn down proof of this though.
User Image

Technically it is true.
There are formula's out for all the kittens already.
And there is always the chance for some of the kittens to be in the rigs again.
So basically, they could just started releasing three kittens in each rig. Same rarity, more chances to get one.
They become higher in supply this way.
I think I now understand what they mean by "we can always just re release items when they get scarce"
Mmk.
As long as the formulas aren't too ridiculous I think we ought to be fine.

I hope. gonk
A lot of people want kitten stars (I still want Jet.)
User Image

Basically at this rate, the rarity of all the items in the entire marketplace is gonna change....
A LOT! eek

Irregular Trash

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Recite Your Sins



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вυт ∂ση'т ℓσσк ∂σωη вє¢αυѕє, ι ∂ση'т кησω, ƒαℓℓιηg ιѕ ƒαтαℓ ƒяσм тнιѕ нєιgнт


It's not really too surprising that staff members don't understand how the economy works like non-staff do. I mean, really, while they may be playing members, they do have responsibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I just think that there should have been some more beta-ing, like an on-going feedback thread before the feature was released, with a screen of a possible formula, asking if you think this is cool or not while still releasing the components. I also think that this QA thread should have been made as soon as Alchemy was released. I'm fairly (I think about 95%?) certain that the QA thread for the OM came out on the same day (or within 48 hours of the feature's release). I think both feature releases are fairly indicative that developers and artists have... no real clue about how an average Gaian's experience is, and aren't willing to learn.

Which... is quite frankly, a problem. You see, Gaia wants to be a company. Most users (most dedicated users), want Gaia to be a company. Good companies have good customer service, which requires the company to know and understand what it's like to be in their customer's shoes. Sometimes, yeah, there's nothing to do but say "sorry" when your customers are pissed, but we don't even get that. :/

We basically caught them trying to release a feature that was sort of slapped together and shoved onto the site without any real and deep thought, and now they're trying to cover it up like they've been developing it for years. And so users are super pissed because it alienates almost every user in the process, and people aren't listening to our feedback. Then, we get someone who hasn't even worked on the project telling us to, basically, stfu we planned it like this get over it. Oh, and then they pissed off so many members by telling them that they weren't dedicated enough to Gaia because they weren't "hardcore" enough to play Alchemy. Yeah. Yeah...

They don't understand how an average Gaian feels (lol).

I dunno, just my two cents on that, yeah?

Edit: What is with me and effing up the code? XD




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Scholarly Storyteller

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pepper-tea

Lucky, Milk are both still obtainable in the current CI, and have been obtainable in the monthly CIs since their release. Sherbet, if he isn't available in the current CI (I don't work on them so I can't say for certain) then he will be in future CIs, and/or be craftable. I can be certain about that because that is required of all items used in alchemy.


I'm a little confused though about all items required in alchemy to be craftable, because the item North Kitten Star came with an announcement that said they were exclusive to a certain bundle. I think a lot of people were under the impression that this item wouldn't be re-released anywhere, unless the Super Prize itself got re-released wherein you could still get a NKS.

Here's the a screenshot and the NKS ad:
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

I was thinking this was really the only worry about 'item extinction' since, MCs aside, Gaia can re-release any item they want if it hasn't been advertised as limited edition or exclusive or "only found in [X]." Unless my understanding of what exclusive means is botched? Uhh...

Informer

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Recite Your Sins



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вυт ∂ση'т ℓσσк ∂σωη вє¢αυѕє, ι ∂ση'т кησω, ƒαℓℓιηg ιѕ ƒαтαℓ ƒяσм тнιѕ нєιgнт


It's not really too surprising that staff members don't understand how the economy works like non-staff do. I mean, really, while they may be playing members, they do have responsibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I just think that there should have been some more beta-ing, like an on-going feedback thread before the feature was released, with a screen of a possible formula, asking if you think this is cool or not while still releasing the components. I also think that this QA thread should have been made as soon as Alchemy was released. I'm fairly (I think about 95%?) certain that the QA thread for the OM came out on the same day (or within 48 hours of the feature's release). I think both feature releases are fairly indicative that developers and artists have... no real clue about how an average Gaian's experience is, and aren't willing to learn.

Which... is quite frankly, a problem. You see, Gaia wants to be a company. Most users (most dedicated users), want Gaia to be a company. Good companies have good customer service, which requires the company to know and understand what it's like to be in their customer's shoes. Sometimes, yeah, there's nothing to do but say "sorry" when your customers are pissed, but we don't even get that. :/

We basically caught them trying to release a feature that was sort of slapped together and shoved onto the site without any real and deep thought, and now they're trying to cover it up like they've been developing it for years. And so users are super pissed because it alienates almost every user in the process, and people aren't listening to our feedback. Then, we get someone who hasn't even worked on the project telling us to, basically, stfu we planned it like this get over it. Oh, and then they pissed off so many members by telling them that they weren't dedicated enough to Gaia because they weren't "hardcore" enough to play Alchemy. Yeah. Yeah...

They don't understand how an average Gaian feels (lol).

I dunno, just my two cents on that, yeah?

Edit: What is with me and effing up the code? XD




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There's no doubt the release was very poor, and the timing couldn't be more awful with all the other events going on. However, though they should of put the effort into this at the very BEGINNING, I can't say I am not thankful for them trying to amend it now.

I didn't want this feature to be thrown away, cause if that happens, the items that are featured in this system goes with it. Needless to say, I reeeeeeally want them.

I completely agree that they should of had a beta version, or at least some "test subjects" /poles to get a better consensus. If they would of tested 20 random people, they would of seen the immediate general problems with this feature.

We can only hope that from this mistake they will find better methods to release features as big as this. Preferably NOT when several other new features have just been launched ( outfits, Pie Hard Event, Monster Galaxy, zOMG expansion).

I mean, if it wasn't obvious that the feature needed more fine tuning, I still would of expected them to wait to release this feature, especially with so many other things going on. I wouldn't want this interfering with other new games and events, and visa versa. No one would of been upset if they had wished to postpone the releasing of the Alchemy feature, and I doubt that Gaia sincerely needed this to be presented immediately like they did.

Nevertheless, this has attracted much attention, they are working on plausible solutions, and we will see in the upcoming weeks if things really start to change, But you can bet your horses that if they don't deliver on their promises, a lot of people will be right back to square one. Right here babe <3

Informer

double post ~

Informer

Existential Existence



You know? It was just kind of generally accepted that the NKS was just another RIG animal, but since they did put it in their official add as "exclusive"...Well, I am gonna have to let them figure out the politics xp

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pepper-tea
Savaille
pepper-tea
"How are we supposed to know when Gaia deems it "necessary" to re-release some of these cash shop items? When their average prices double/triple/etc for an extended period of time? When a certain recipe is no longer used because people refuse to pay MP prices for the ingredients? I'm honestly curious, because until Gaia releases more of the cs ingredients the prices will inflate as the supply dwindles.
Maybe a scheduled re-release date every so often would help with keeping the MP at least a little balanced?"

Sorry for the repost, but I figured it'd be better to do that rather than try to type up something coherent at this time of night.

I understand that there will be multiple ways to craft an item, but my concern stems from the fact that the MP stability of the component CS items will potentially be all over the place.

[ edit ]
Are they only going to be released through DC? Will this include things like the kitten stars or their alchemy components? :/


CI items are almost always still available in the current CI, especially the rare ones. You can still get kittenstars from Valefor Academy. And we re-release cash shop items all the time. Furthermore many of the rarer items that are being used in formulas are craftable as well. All kittenstar formulas are available, they just haven't been found yet.

A regular re-release of one or a few items sounds interesting. Do you feel that would be beneficial?

Yes.

I had been thinking that you could release bundles into the cash shop periodically that have re-releases of some items whether they are from CIs, Direct to CS, or CS Bundles/Exclusives.

These bundles can run in themes applicable to formulas, colors, or the items themselves.

Perhaps you might have one or two as a permanent fixture that can be used as advanced starter kits (kind of like the aquarium bundles).

Because of the large numbers of items needed to make some of the formulas (and I still think that needs to be reconsidered for the future) a bundle should have at least 10-15 items.

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Panagrammic
Ah, let me take a swing at this one, at least from an economic point of view.

I apologize for my poor wording if you thought that I was blaming users for our laissez-faire marketplace. (This is perhaps why we should have the writers vet everything, but they are so busy with their alpaca races nowadays). The point I was trying to make there is that, to some extent, the pricing of the items is determined by intangible factors that the users must determine for themselves. There are items with equivalent rarities that differ in price by more than 10x.

I'd also like to point out that item alchemy by design is strictly a gold sink, and, as such, deflationary. However, it has definitely caused spikes upward in prices. This is a temporary -- since we have an ever increasing supply of components and only a small percentage of users that have interest in alchemy, you'll find that the prices will become much more reasonable.

You don't have to worry about causing inflation by participating in the market -- that is actually deflationary. We understand if you find the price prohibitive right now, but that situation will correct soon.

Recite Your Sins
I am a little offended that you blame the users when using the "laizze faire" market. "So, if you see a formula and are thinking to yourself, "There is no way that is worth it," then we suggest that you don't make that formula." Ultimately, when they released this new feature, they didn't release it with the intention of not being able to use it. You put the blame soley on the gaian population by saying we are the one driving up the prices using a faulty system they created for the purpose of creating new items, with current limited to begin with. Users obviously want the newer items, but the inflation of the components needed for these formulas is the fundamental problem of what is undoubtly a current broken Alchemy system. So, blame the users, for a system that was created for the destruction of rare items, because of a system that was created for it's intented use.

It's not fair to put out a system you want Gaians to use, knowing it will cause inflation of the items hindering more Gaians from utilitizing the system. Considering almost every single formula out there for now is currently "not worth making", should we just abandon the system to help decrease this inflation it's caused? Either we quit making things that aren't worth making ( abandon alchemy and leave it to collect dust), or buy up the items, decrease the supply with the destruction of the items, and increase inflation. So, don't use this "really cool system", or "cause and contribute to inflation"? Those are some fantastic choices there, thank you.


all I can say is actually you have a very large amount of users interested in alchemy but currently can not do it because there are a) limited amounts of items b) the users that own the cash items you so desperately want to keep in alchemy sell them at ungodly prices.

for one item (for me I can't speak for the rest of gaia) it took me two months just to get enough gold to buy it for a little over 1mil. the way things are now, the users who are interested in doing alchemy simply can not do alchemy because your going about it the wrong way.

Kawaii Prophet


I might just be beating a dead horse here, I'm honestly too mind-fried to backread 60+ pages right now. But I would really like some clarification/explanation/whatever on why in the hell it takes 10NKS to craft ONE single Kitten Star? If I am getting things right, I've heard that all the kitten stars will be craftable, which is nice. But some of these formulas require such ridiculous amounts of certain items. Will any attempt be made to balance the recipes out? I mean, as they stand, most of them are pretty damn ludicrous.

Also, I have to be honest, after reading Carbon's rather condescending and highly unprofessional journal, I am more than a little leery of Alchemy. I was excited for Alchemy when I saw the announcement. Then I saw the recipes and went "D8". Decided that I wasn't going to spend a drop of cash on something so unbalanced. Then I saw that journal and promptly went into internet rage. I commend Pan and Pepper and Natu all for trying to help curb the hate flood, but yeah. One poorly worded journal from a developer did an awful lot of damage.

Informer

Fairymount

I might just be beating a dead horse here, I'm honestly too mind-fried to backread 60+ pages right now. But I would really like some clarification/explanation/whatever on why in the hell it takes 10NKS to craft ONE single Kitten Star? If I am getting things right, I've heard that all the kitten stars will be craftable, which is nice. But some of these formulas require such ridiculous amounts of certain items. Will any attempt be made to balance the recipes out? I mean, as they stand, most of them are pretty damn ludicrous.

Also, I have to be honest, after reading Carbon's rather condescending and highly unprofessional journal, I am more than a little leery of Alchemy. I was excited for Alchemy when I saw the announcement. Then I saw the recipes and went "D8". Decided that I wasn't going to spend a drop of cash on something so unbalanced. Then I saw that journal and promptly went into internet rage. I commend Pan and Pepper and Natu all for trying to help curb the hate flood, but yeah. One poorly worded journal from a developer did an awful lot of damage.



Couldn't agree more with the bold.

As for your initial question, as for now they will not be changing any current formulas, even though they need to. Their reasoning is because "it is unfair to the users that have already created items using this recipe", even those less then 100 people have even made it to lvl 4 alchemy. However Pan did mention that they will be making "different paths" to certain items, suggesting their will be alternative formulas to achieve the same goal... However, this is speculation for now.

As for Carbon, his cross is his own to bare, as well as the grave he dug for himself will be lain.

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Fairymount

I might just be beating a dead horse here, I'm honestly too mind-fried to backread 60+ pages right now. But I would really like some clarification/explanation/whatever on why in the hell it takes 10NKS to craft ONE single Kitten Star? If I am getting things right, I've heard that all the kitten stars will be craftable, which is nice. But some of these formulas require such ridiculous amounts of certain items. Will any attempt be made to balance the recipes out? I mean, as they stand, most of them are pretty damn ludicrous.

Also, I have to be honest, after reading Carbon's rather condescending and highly unprofessional journal, I am more than a little leery of Alchemy. I was excited for Alchemy when I saw the announcement. Then I saw the recipes and went "D8". Decided that I wasn't going to spend a drop of cash on something so unbalanced. Then I saw that journal and promptly went into internet rage. I commend Pan and Pepper and Natu all for trying to help curb the hate flood, but yeah. One poorly worded journal from a developer did an awful lot of damage.
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Basically, its been explained by Pepper Tea that "items for formula's will be re released if supply gets low" and that "this isn't about item supplies getting low at all, we have that settled"

So basically, every item that is used for a formula can just get re released if their supplies get low.

Pan gave clarification that "items that originally costs gaia cash, if they get re released due to supply needs, they will be re released as needing gaia cash at some point to obtain it as well"

Also, I do not consider Carbon to be a reliable source of information about alchemy.

I hope that helps.

Angelic Angel

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Recite Your Sins
hiiii !

what alchemy items can you receive in dumpster dive? i've been diving for days, and just get trash or items from other users gonk

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