Official Alchemy Q&A Thread [UPDATED x8]

[Shiny Purrloin]

I still think that the amount of items used in creating recipes are ridiculous. Is there any way up coming recipes will have less items? I mean 10 N kittens stars to make one normal kitten star is insane. Another example is the 25x Golden star mood bubbles require to make Zorya among other things. There have never been an exuberant amount of them and they're not from rigs they were a limited cash shop item that is now gone. So the statement that all items are always slowly making their way back into the market place isn't quite true, unless you plan on rereleasing the mood bubble. Besides we've had months for some of these fail items to accumulate and there are some that are still rare! Even before this happened there were some items that were never very common or didn't have a very high drop rate. Either way even if fail items were to become more common 25x one item seems a little more than ridiculous. Especially if we're destroying 25 items. You imply that those items are not a finite resource but because of the high amount of items needed they'll be a constantly depleting one. Even if "there aren't many users interested". Unless that is you decide to make a recipes to make said fail items that don't also require limited/fail/cash items. Also excuse me for saying so but I'm not sure who ever decided these recipes really researched the units sold, the amount available on average, and the average selling price. (Especially considering there are fail items that only had 3 - 10 listings even before this whole alchemy business)

I'd really love a response addressing this if anyone had the time to answer.

[Pinque Von Fluffendorken]

Panagrammic

Yeah, the term "hard-core" has been problematic, so let me see if this helps:

There are temporary shortages now, but over time plenty of components will be available for anyone that wants to advance in alchemy. (Note that there may be limited components for some of the formulas -- the Pie Hard formula is a limited run component -- but for the most part you'll find that the components for the majority of formulas will be available on an ongoing basis).

However, we have the feeling that only a small percentage of users will end up advancing very far in alchemy, since it takes real work to find out about the right formulas, gather the ingredients, so on and so forth. Many of these users will be hard-core -- not by virtue of cash spent or items amassed, but simply because it's only the most dedicated users that will bother to go to the effort.

We do tweak DC / giftboxes / probabilities on an ongoing basis to make sure that there is enough liquidity in the marketplace -- so if demand suddenly shot up we would be able to compensate.

Prusset

Currently the small amount of users interest in Alchemy can be attributed to the fact that this is all blowing over badly. What happens when interest increases? Do you want this feature to be accessible to all middle class Gaians? I know you've stated it's for "hard-core" Gaians, but even those who fit your definition of being a "hard-core" Gaian find the system inaccessible. Both rich and devoted find this feature flat out unusable.

If "Hard-core" Gaians are the ones who wish to participate in all facets of Gaia, shouldn't there be enough of the items used in formulas to support everyone who wants to try?

I know you said users determine prices, but Gaia determines availability. By keeping alchemy items rare, you're causing items to inflate because there isn't competition amongst many users to sell the item.

I guess my question is, how many people do you intend to allow to use this system? Everyone who's willing? Or the select elite with the funds?

So was this the feeling from the onset then? That only a small percentage of users will ever advance very far? That makes it sound very negative. It's almost as if you are saying don't bother you won't make it.

Also if that was the intention from the get go...then why did you put the back wings in this system? Why would you do that with the most requested item ever? That doesn't make them sound obtainable, it makes them sound nearly impossible to get. As I stated in an earlier post I have no issue working hard for something...if it's within reason.

[Infamous]

Recite Your Sins

Meromictic

Does the dumpster dive grant any items?

Yes :3

Nice!

And I read your other reply. >o> I just haven't gotten to responding. x.x; Sorry. I was distracted by a friend's tinychat.

But yeah. There is always a risk. I plan on leveling up when I get the chance. The university just started classes again and I don't have that much time to figure out a good method to level. While I plan on doing this for my own benefit, I would be willing to help out friends. If that was the case, and the item was one that had a high chance of failing, I would have them share my screen through skype. That way they can see what's going on (plus I hate delivering bad news if it failed XD).

I know that isn't the case for everyone though and there are plenty of users out there that will attempt to take advantage. My hope is that maybe a few people will stand out from the crowd (be it because they have a large shop or word of mouth) and that group is a bit more ethical about the game.

This is just another one of those wait and see type of things, I guess. If it does start to become a major problem, I'm sure the staff and users can come of with something to help hinder the scams.

[Rectify Your Wrongs]

Shiny Purrloin

I still think that the amount of items used in creating recipes are ridiculous. Is there any way up coming recipes will have less items? I mean 10 N kittens stars to make one normal kitten star is insane. Another example is the 25x Golden star mood bubbles require to make Zorya among other things. There have never been an exuberant amount of them and they're not from rigs they were a limited cash shop item that is now gone. So the statement that all items are always slowly making their way back into the market place isn't quite true, unless you plan on rereleasing the mood bubble. Besides we've had months for some of these fail items to accumulate and they are some that are still rare! Even before this happened there were some items that were never very common or didn't have a very high drop rate. Either way even if fail items were to become more common 25x one item seems a little more than ridiculous. Especially if we're destroying 25 items. You imply that those items are not a finite resource but because of the high amount of items needed they'll be a constantly depleting one. Even if "there aren't many users interested". Unless that is you decide to make a recipes to make said fail items that don't also require limited/fail/cash items. Also excuse me for saying so but I'm not sure who ever decided these recipes really researched the units sold, the amount available on average, and the average selling price. (Especially considering there are fail items that only had 3 - 10 listings even before this whole alchemy business)

I'd really love a response addressing this if anyone had the time to answer.

The Devs and the artists have gone to sleep, and although I agree with this advancing issue, they are gonna have only 2 options to fix this.

1. Adjust the formulas to a more reasonable state
or
2. Continue to "tweak" Alchemy, and drops to increase the supply of all components based on their demand, as Pan mentioned earlier x3

[Shiny Purrloin]

Recite Your Sins

Shiny Purrloin

I still think that the amount of items used in creating recipes are ridiculous. Is there any way up coming recipes will have less items? I mean 10 N kittens stars to make one normal kitten star is insane. Another example is the 25x Golden star mood bubbles require to make Zorya among other things. There have never been an exuberant amount of them and they're not from rigs they were a limited cash shop item that is now gone. So the statement that all items are always slowly making their way back into the market place isn't quite true, unless you plan on rereleasing the mood bubble. Besides we've had months for some of these fail items to accumulate and they are some that are still rare! Even before this happened there were some items that were never very common or didn't have a very high drop rate. Either way even if fail items were to become more common 25x one item seems a little more than ridiculous. Especially if we're destroying 25 items. You imply that those items are not a finite resource but because of the high amount of items needed they'll be a constantly depleting one. Even if "there aren't many users interested". Unless that is you decide to make a recipes to make said fail items that don't also require limited/fail/cash items. Also excuse me for saying so but I'm not sure who ever decided these recipes really researched the units sold, the amount available on average, and the average selling price. (Especially considering there are fail items that only had 3 - 10 listings even before this whole alchemy business)

I'd really love a response addressing this if anyone had the time to answer.

The Devs and the artists have gone to sleep, and although I agree with this advancing issue, they are gonna have only 2 options to fix this.

1. Adjust the formulas to a more reasonable state
or
2. Continue to "tweak" Alchemy, and drops to increase the supply of all components based on their demand, as Pan mentioned earlier x3

Oh darn I missed them. D: Hopefully they'll read this or maybe I'll re-post the question as needed later on down the road.
Though I totally agree with those options. 3nodding

[Rectify Your Wrongs]

Shiny Purrloin

Recite Your Sins

Shiny Purrloin

I still think that the amount of items used in creating recipes are ridiculous. Is there any way up coming recipes will have less items? I mean 10 N kittens stars to make one normal kitten star is insane. Another example is the 25x Golden star mood bubbles require to make Zorya among other things. There have never been an exuberant amount of them and they're not from rigs they were a limited cash shop item that is now gone. So the statement that all items are always slowly making their way back into the market place isn't quite true, unless you plan on rereleasing the mood bubble. Besides we've had months for some of these fail items to accumulate and they are some that are still rare! Even before this happened there were some items that were never very common or didn't have a very high drop rate. Either way even if fail items were to become more common 25x one item seems a little more than ridiculous. Especially if we're destroying 25 items. You imply that those items are not a finite resource but because of the high amount of items needed they'll be a constantly depleting one. Even if "there aren't many users interested". Unless that is you decide to make a recipes to make said fail items that don't also require limited/fail/cash items. Also excuse me for saying so but I'm not sure who ever decided these recipes really researched the units sold, the amount available on average, and the average selling price. (Especially considering there are fail items that only had 3 - 10 listings even before this whole alchemy business)

I'd really love a response addressing this if anyone had the time to answer.

The Devs and the artists have gone to sleep, and although I agree with this advancing issue, they are gonna have only 2 options to fix this.

1. Adjust the formulas to a more reasonable state
or
2. Continue to "tweak" Alchemy, and drops to increase the supply of all components based on their demand, as Pan mentioned earlier x3

Oh darn I missed them. D: Hopefully they'll read this or maybe I'll re-post the question as needed later on down the road.
Though I totally agree with those options. 3nodding

I knooooow, it's too bad we can't genetically enhance our Devs so they can work non stop to meet every single Gaian need EVER! 8D

But yeah, I am guessing you are from an eastern hemisphere timezone? ^-^ Or a night hawk? xD

Just out of boredom I am trying to find a way to lvl my alchemy, but I just can't seem to find a cheap formula that hasn't been exploited up the a** yet xd

[Shiny Purrloin]

Recite Your Sins

I knooooow, it's too bad we can't genetically enhance our Devs so they can work non stop to meet every single Gaian need EVER! 8D

But yeah, I am guessing you are from an eastern hemisphere timezone? ^-^ Or a night hawk? xD

Just out of boredom I am trying to find a way to lvl my alchemy, but I just can't seem to find a cheap formula that hasn't been exploited up the a** yet xd

THEY MUST BE ROBOTS! Lol No I totally understand people need sleep. 3nodding
Oh I'm actually on the western hemisphere. I'm just a total night owl. Its 2am here though so I might head to bed soon.
Oh? I heard people were raising their level using the pie hard alchemy recipe, but it seems like Diedrich clones are really rare. I haven't been able to craft anything yet because of it. XD I also know people where buying starter kits and grinding those but that seems expensive.

[Pinque Von Fluffendorken]

pepper-tea

Since many of you are asking about cash items I will try to say a bit about them.

Why do we require cash items? We really wanted to give all of you the ability to create some of those rare cash items you want by collecting more common items. Gaians have long bemoaned the fact that you can get awesome items by only buying a CI and probably not getting what you were trying for. Alchemy gave us an opportunity to put the creation of those rare items into your hands.
Unfortunately, there is no way to justify outright creating an item that was originally sold for cash for free. But just because a formula requires a cash item to create, doesn't mean we expect everyone to go buy it for cash. None of the ingredients we currently use are soulbound, and we encourage you to get them in the way that works best for you (within the TOS of course XD)

But if creating a rare item requires another cash item...then someone somewhere does/did have to buy it for cash. You can't get around that unless you have a formula to create a cash item solely out of non cash items and from what you just said we won't. It's fine to give us a way to create a kitten star or whatever...but the easiest solution to stop the people who bemoan not getting those items because they are so very very rare, was to increase the drop rates to begin with. If that was done, then people wouldn't be having a coronary now over having to sacrifice 4 kittens in order to make 1. Even if I were rich enough or lucky enough to have all 4 of those kittens, I don't think I could destroy them for 1 of the rainbow kitten stars. Especially knowing how much was probably spent to obtain those in the first place by the cash buyer or quester with their gold, time and effort.

I appreciate your time to come out and explain, but I think there are still huge flaws in this system and I hope you work them out. The irony is that one of ya said this is primarily a gold sink...but the majority of people who want to use the alchemy system are the middle class Gaians who don't have the millions of gold to sink because they are saving and working so hard for those few rare RIG items they couldn't get any other way. Those items cost so much in the MP again because the drop rate was so low. It's a Catch 22.

[Solnya the Second]

Recite Your Sins

I knooooow, it's too bad we can't genetically enhance our Devs so they can work non stop to meet every single Gaian need EVER! 8D

I think if it were possible, they would just end up drinking themselves into stupidity so to undo the g.e., kill us all, or worse, kill the site DX

[Rectify Your Wrongs]

Shiny Purrloin

Recite Your Sins

I knooooow, it's too bad we can't genetically enhance our Devs so they can work non stop to meet every single Gaian need EVER! 8D

But yeah, I am guessing you are from an eastern hemisphere timezone? ^-^ Or a night hawk? xD

Just out of boredom I am trying to find a way to lvl my alchemy, but I just can't seem to find a cheap formula that hasn't been exploited up the a** yet xd

THEY MUST BE ROBOTS! Lol No I totally understand people need sleep. 3nodding
Oh I'm actually on the western hemisphere. I'm just a total night owl. Its 2am here though so I might head to bed soon.
Oh? I heard people were raising their level using the pie hard alchemy recipe, but it seems like Diedrich clones are really rare. I haven't been able to craft anything yet because of it. XD I also know people where buying starter kits and grinding those but that seems expensive.

I have never really participated in the Pie Hard event, mostly because I never took the time to understand it so I lost track of it. Other then that, the alchemy kits only help so much, it is a "starter kit" after all, and after lvl 2, you still only get 1xp from them, and you need 20 to advance to lvl 3. I don't even want to KNOW how many you need to get to lvl 4 xD If you use same lvl formulas, naturally, you get more XP for crafting them.

However, the prices are still ridiculously steep xP You have a good night x3

[Shiny Purrloin]

Recite Your Sins

Shiny Purrloin

Recite Your Sins

I knooooow, it's too bad we can't genetically enhance our Devs so they can work non stop to meet every single Gaian need EVER! 8D

But yeah, I am guessing you are from an eastern hemisphere timezone? ^-^ Or a night hawk? xD

Just out of boredom I am trying to find a way to lvl my alchemy, but I just can't seem to find a cheap formula that hasn't been exploited up the a** yet xd

THEY MUST BE ROBOTS! Lol No I totally understand people need sleep. 3nodding
Oh I'm actually on the western hemisphere. I'm just a total night owl. Its 2am here though so I might head to bed soon.
Oh? I heard people were raising their level using the pie hard alchemy recipe, but it seems like Diedrich clones are really rare. I haven't been able to craft anything yet because of it. XD I also know people where buying starter kits and grinding those but that seems expensive.

I have never really participated in the Pie Hard event, mostly because I never took the time to understand it so I lost track of it. Other then that, the alchemy kits only help so much, it is a "starter kit" after all, and after lvl 2, you still only get 1xp from them, and you need 20 to advance to lvl 3. I don't even want to KNOW how many you need to get to lvl 4 xD If you use same lvl formulas, naturally, you get more XP for crafting them.

However, the prices are still ridiculously steep xP You have a good night x3

I see what you mean now that you point it out! I haven't actually tried crafting anything besides the first starter kit. gonk Oh gosh I'm falling asleep at my key board. FDafdasfsa. Anyways you have a lovely night/day yourself! 3nodding

[D-Fruit]

I have never been so exasperated by a feature that I have yet to find any "definite want" items in... It's just so frustrating though that a feature EXISTS that has no way of actually being used. There are EFFECTIVELY no component items. They just aren't out there. And other than the formulas that can be bought, formulas barely exist too.

When zOMG! came out it's alchemy system was perfectly implemented. Why was this alchemy system released with no reliably available components? In zOMG! you kill specific animated to get the specific loot items you need to craft your recipes. In this system you have an infinitesimal chance of getting random, singular component items in daily chance... and maybe giftboxes if you're lucky enough to find one... and supposedly an equally infinitesimal chance of getting one by playing zOMG! or Booty grab...

Why wasn't a similar system to zOMG's implemented for alchemy so that the user could go complete a specific task to get specific component items instead of just sitting around and HOPING to be granted one randomly someday. ...why isn't the "quest" for alchemy components an ACTIVE one?


...i'd also like to mention that the amount of hype generated for this feature by it getting it's own comic installment and announcement really made the backlash worse when everyone found out that the feature was very much not ready for prime-time. You can't dangle a delicious carrot just out of reach of an entire website like that and things be okay xd

[D-Fruit]

Also I would like to make a couple of suggestions...

Create high success formulas to SPLIT newly created alchemy items like the recolor of kitten star, into it's base parts.

This way the old items CAN'T technically be lost, and it will create a smoothing effect in the market and more incentive to craft the new items as the user knows they can recoup their old items just by consuming some more gold and perhaps some really common components.

Edit: Or maybe instead of introducing formulas to split the alchemy items it could be a service offered at the Bifrost to split them into their base parts for a gold fee (and maybe consumption of another copy of the formula that originally created the item)? Reverse transmutation service or something?


Also a suggestion involving the problem with formulas to create old cash shop items having to involve items that cost cash in their creation (and the effect that has upon their rarity and price in the marketplace). zOMG! originally used items called null fragments in the crafting of it's recipes. The null fragments could be bought for cash in the shops at that time. Why not use a similar "cash exclusive" component item to craft these old cash shop items instead of items found in those old RIGs?

[Lady March Hare]

The questions that I've had have been addressed by other users, so I'd just like to add a comment to say thank you Pan for setting this thread up. I know that I personally was as frustrated by a lack of available, verifiable information about this feature as much as anything, and it's comforting that you're taking steps to help us work through the confusion of this new feature.

[ylluihdvuncyma]

gaia_kittenstar classified_northkittenstar classified_jet


Update the Aurora Kitten Star formula please!

smile